More Insulation

[gcaLuna13]

Hi All,

It seems like the trace amounts of insulation isn't enough within an average tub system.

Has anyone added some type of insulation (example R-19 wall insulation) to the inside of their tubs for extra winter help?

Is this a big no no????

It seems my circulation pump is always running these days.

Thanks,

Luna13

[eco_spas]

I have been doing extensive testing with spas in freezing temperatures, long story short. Will it help? YES! very much so. Would I recommend someone doing it to their spa. No. but if you decide to do it anyways, mach sure you dont put any R-19 on the side with the pump motor and heater( due to overheating possibilities.

[hottubdan]

I have been doing extensive testing with spas in freezing temperatures, long story short. Will it help? YES! very much so. Would I recommend someone doing it to their spa. No.

why not?

[eco_spas]

I have been doing extensive testing with spas in freezing temperatures, long story short. Will it help? YES! very much so. Would I recommend someone doing it to their spa. No.

why not?

there are many variables for me to consider when Im recommending something, one of which is the voiding manufactuers warrenty.

[hottubdan]

I have been doing extensive testing with spas in freezing temperatures, long story short. Will it help? YES! very much so. Would I recommend someone doing it to their spa. No.

why not?

there are many variables for me to consider when Im recommending something, one of which is the voiding manufactuers warrenty.

Show me a warranty that is voided by adding insulation. The issue was would adding insulation help. Your short answer is yes.

[eco_spas]

I have been doing extensive testing with spas in freezing temperatures, long story short. Will it help? YES! very much so. Would I recommend someone doing it to their spa. No.

why not?

there are many variables for me to consider when Im recommending something, one of which is the voiding manufactuers warrenty.

Show me a warranty that is voided by adding insulation. The issue was would adding insulation help. Your short answer is yes.

hottubdan, Short answer. YES "R-19 home insulation " will make a huge differance in heating time and cost.

[hottubdan]

I have been doing extensive testing with spas in freezing temperatures, long story short. Will it help? YES! very much so. Would I recommend someone doing it to their spa. No.

why not?

there are many variables for me to consider when Im recommending something, one of which is the voiding manufactuers warrenty.

Show me a warranty that is voided by adding insulation. The issue was would adding insulation help. Your short answer is yes.

hottubdan, Short answer. YES "R-19 home insulation " will make a huge differance in heating time and cost.

[hot_water]

Show me a warranty that is voided by adding insulation. The issue was would adding insulation help. Your short answer is yes.

Actually, many spa warranties contain provisions that would allow the manufacture to void the warranty if the owner alters the spa. Adding insulation is an "alteration", especially in light of the fact that under certain circumstances additional insulation can cause equipment (motors and or control electronics) to operate above the temperatures that the manufacturer intends. Excessive temperature shortens the life of motors and (especially) electronics. For specific examples of warranty wording, refer to the "exclusions" section of the warranty. You can find examples on many manufacturer's websites, including Sundance and Arctic. Not that you would necessarily want to add insulation to either of these two tubs.

So the short answer is, yes - there COULD be a warranty implication. It's up to the manufacturer to decide if they want to void the warranty, but the point is that they could. Before implementing any alteration, you should review your warranty. At the very least... make sure what ever you do can be easily undone.

Having said that, I believe, assuming (a) you're ok with the warranty business and want to improve your heat retention, and ( your cover is in good shape and seals well, the first and most important thing to do is seal up all the air leaks in the cabinet (we're talking non-full -foam tubs only). Next, I would add insulation, in the form of low density ridgid foam sheets, to the cabinet wall and also the bottom pan of the spa. There should be a surface of metallic film (Reflectix or similar) facing inwards (i.e., into the internal airspace). The caveat here is that if you are too successful, you can cause the pump motors and /or spa electronics to overheat at high temperatures. So, it's a good idea to monitor the air temp insde the cabinet. If it gets too high, you might need to add a vent panel during warm weather or take other steps to keep things happy in there.

Let me come back to the cover for a second. A good cover is essential. "Good" not only means that it is well made with good insulating properties, but also it needs to form a good seal to the shell so that you're not losing hot air, saturated with water vapor, from the space between cover and water. I add very little water to my spa - probably an inch every three weeks at the most... little or no water loss means that the cover is sealing well.

Finally, you should get in the habit of making sure that the air valves are closed at all jets when you exit the tub. Pumping cold air through your water when the pumps cycle on isn't very energy-efficient.

-hot_water

[awitowsk]

Having said that, I believe, assuming (a) you're ok with the warranty business and want to improve your heat retention, and ( your cover is in good shape and seals well, the first and most important thing to do is seal up all the air leaks in the cabinet (we're talking non-full -foam tubs only). Next, I would add insulation, in the form of low density ridgid foam sheets, to the cabinet wall and also the bottom pan of the spa. There should be a surface of metallic film (Reflectix or similar) facing inwards (i.e., into the internal airspace). The caveat here is that if you are too successful, you can cause the pump motors and /or spa electronics to overheat at high temperatures. So, it's a good idea to monitor the air temp insde the cabinet. If it gets too high, you might need to add a vent panel during warm weather or take other steps to keep things happy in there.

Your post summed up about a month of research I did since getting a "cheap" spa.

I did read some problems of using the thick house batting type insulation. If it gets wet it will loose its insulation value and hold water. Some people put it in bags, but then it also makes nice homes for mice to shred and fill with debris and odors. Some people use non rated insulation like packing peanuts which can be a fire hazard. Whatever you use you don't want it to get sucked into the pumps or blower either. The foam board/reflective insulation seemed like the way to go.

I am new to this, but after much research that seemed to be th consensus of what I found across the web for dealing with spas that come with a lower initial cost and also insulation. I just picked up a lower brand spa that only had insulation on the tub. Before installing it I put a R-3 1/2" rigid foambard inside the cabinet of the spa against the frame on all 4 sides, and then a second 1/2 layer of rigid foam cut to fit directly under the outside skin. It took about 2.5 4x8 sheets and I used 2 cans of closed cell foam to seal all of the gaps. Cost about $40. I also put a remote thermometer inside above the pumps. Figure if its heating up too much in the summer it will be easy to remove the front panel and pop the foam boards out of that side. Don't know if it will actually do anything since I just got it and have to get an electrical issue sorted out first.

[eco_spas]

Having said that, I believe, assuming (a) you're ok with the warranty business and want to improve your heat retention, and ( your cover is in good shape and seals well, the first and most important thing to do is seal up all the air leaks in the cabinet (we're talking non-full -foam tubs only). Next, I would add insulation, in the form of low density ridgid foam sheets, to the cabinet wall and also the bottom pan of the spa. There should be a surface of metallic film (Reflectix or similar) facing inwards (i.e., into the internal airspace). The caveat here is that if you are too successful, you can cause the pump motors and /or spa electronics to overheat at high temperatures. So, it's a good idea to monitor the air temp insde the cabinet. If it gets too high, you might need to add a vent panel during warm weather or take other steps to keep things happy in there.

Your post summed up about a month of research I did since getting a "cheap" spa.

I did read some problems of using the thick house batting type insulation. If it gets wet it will loose its insulation value and hold water. Some people put it in bags, but then it also makes nice homes for mice to shred and fill with debris and odors. Some people use non rated insulation like packing peanuts which can be a fire hazard. Whatever you use you don't want it to get sucked into the pumps or blower either. The foam board/reflective insulation seemed like the way to go.

I am new to this, but after much research that seemed to be th consensus of what I found across the web for dealing with spas that come with a lower initial cost and also insulation. I just picked up a lower brand spa that only had insulation on the tub. Before installing it I put a R-3 1/2" rigid foambard inside the cabinet of the spa against the frame on all 4 sides, and then a second 1/2 layer of rigid foam cut to fit directly under the outside skin. It took about 2.5 4x8 sheets and I used 2 cans of closed cell foam to seal all of the gaps. Cost about $40. I also put a remote thermometer inside above the pumps. Figure if its heating up too much in the summer it will be easy to remove the front panel and pop the foam boards out of that side. Don't know if it will actually do anything since I just got it and have to get an electrical issue sorted out first.

Its great that you put a thermometer in the cabinet to moniter the temp. you will want to pay close attention to the temp of your pumps(the hotter they run the faster they will break down). But your on the right track to saving energy.

[awitowsk]

you will want to pay close attention to the temp of your pumps(the hotter they run the faster they will break down). But your on the right track to saving energy. biggrin.gif

What air temp range should people look for as the upper limit in the spa near the pumps?

[SpaWorldOnline]

Some pumps will actually state the max operating temp on the pump label/motor plate.

You shouldn't use batts as they give of a carcinogenic (?) dust, which then is sucked in by the air blower and venturis and injected into the water. Some of this you may inhale as the bubbles burst on the spa surface, and the rest could give itchy skin - so not a great idea.

Better method of retro-fitting hot tub insulation (compared to batts) is to used "carded hollow fibre polysester wool" its what they use to stuff cuddly toys etc with - its also hypo-allergenic and fire retardent. Provided you have a decent cabinet and base, rodents shouldnt be a problem, and I've never heard of anyone suffering a leak because of a mouse!

If used in conjuction with the existing foam panels, the wool will really help to boost the R value - the eqivalent of a full-foam spa, without the maintenance hassles.

Another place to stop air leaks is around the top of the cabinet and the lip of the shell.

You can get an extruded foam strip with a cylindrical profile in a roll (i used to use it for expansion joints in pool-surround-paving before adding sealant). This works great to seal between the shell and cabinet.

A can of expanding foam works well here too, but be careful not to block the air inlets on the jet controls.