Yunus Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 I have an 08 Caldera Hawaiian. Everything is still under warranty so I will be calling the dealer if there is not a simple fix but I thought I would post here and maybe save the fee the dealer charges to come out. Last night I got in and noticed the 24 hour filter pump was not on which means no heater also. I checked and as the temperature dropped I also noticed the "temp" light flashing which the manual says, clean filter, cut power for 30 seconds then turn back on. I did all this and no changes. It was dark so there was nothing more I could do. Today I noticed that when I press the test button on my GFCI outlets the 30amp kicks off but the 20amp does not. It is about 10F outside so I'm wondering if this is common because of the cold or if the GFCI is broken or if maybe it won't trip because there is no load being applied against it if the heater/pump is not on. Any thoughts? The only thing I have done to the tub recently is I added about 12 oz of Calcium increaser during the day yesterday, then in the evening I got in and the problems were happening, but I don't think that has anything to do with it, but you all know better than I do. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan.The.Spa.Man Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 I have an 08 Caldera Hawaiian. Everything is still under warranty so I will be calling the dealer if there is not a simple fix but I thought I would post here and maybe save the fee the dealer charges to come out. Last night I got in and noticed the 24 hour filter pump was not on which means no heater also. I checked and as the temperature dropped I also noticed the "temp" light flashing which the manual says, clean filter, cut power for 30 seconds then turn back on. I did all this and no changes. It was dark so there was nothing more I could do. Today I noticed that when I press the test button on my GFCI outlets the 30amp kicks off but the 20amp does not. It is about 10F outside so I'm wondering if this is common because of the cold or if the GFCI is broken or if maybe it won't trip because there is no load being applied against it if the heater/pump is not on. Any thoughts? The only thing I have done to the tub recently is I added about 12 oz of Calcium increaser during the day yesterday, then in the evening I got in and the problems were happening, but I don't think that has anything to do with it, but you all know better than I do. Thanks quote] Did you reset both breakesr? Turn both of them off and reset both of them. If the 20 was in the tripped position it needs to be fully turned off and reset.[/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yunus Posted January 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 Yes I tried twice now tripping both breakers for a full minute then turning them back on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan.The.Spa.Man Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 Yes I tried twice now tripping both breakers for a full minute then turning them back on. So now if you hit the red test buttons they both trip off? If you reset both breakers, is the temp light flashing after a minute or so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ps558 Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 I have an 08 Caldera Hawaiian. Everything is still under warranty so I will be calling the dealer if there is not a simple fix but I thought I would post here and maybe save the fee the dealer charges to come out. Last night I got in and noticed the 24 hour filter pump was not on which means no heater also. I checked and as the temperature dropped I also noticed the "temp" light flashing which the manual says, clean filter, cut power for 30 seconds then turn back on. I did all this and no changes. It was dark so there was nothing more I could do. Today I noticed that when I press the test button on my GFCI outlets the 30amp kicks off but the 20amp does not. It is about 10F outside so I'm wondering if this is common because of the cold or if the GFCI is broken or if maybe it won't trip because there is no load being applied against it if the heater/pump is not on. Any thoughts? The only thing I have done to the tub recently is I added about 12 oz of Calcium increaser during the day yesterday, then in the evening I got in and the problems were happening, but I don't think that has anything to do with it, but you all know better than I do. Thanks Just a reminder that Caldera includes the GCFI panel with the spa, so if something is wrong with one of the breakers it is covered under warranty. I never did like them GE breakers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yunus Posted January 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 Yes I tried twice now tripping both breakers for a full minute then turning them back on. So now if you hit the red test buttons they both trip off? If you reset both breakers, is the temp light flashing after a minute or so? The 30amp breaker will trip when the test button is pushed but the 20 amp still will not. But manually flipping bot to the off position for a minute then turning it back on. The tub at first flashes temp, and now I am getting 4 lines which the manual says is when the overtemp switch has been tripped. Is resetting that switch something I can do on my own? I also took a panel off the side to see if I could see any obvious problems (wires loose or something) and the only thing I saw was that a little light labeled "D17" was lite on the main panel inside the spa. Other than that everything seemed ok, but I didn't poke around to much as I didn't want to touch a live wire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yunus Posted January 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 Called the dealer, service department is closed. I talked with a sales guy who had me turn off the power then back on and immediately start the pumps, they ran for about 5 seconds. He said it is likely freezing pipes. I'm going to take a blow dryer to the pump near the heater and he suggested running the jets after that for a while to help heat the insides up. Does this sound like a good course of action or is there something better that I can do? It's about 10F outside and the tub is sitting on a brick patio, so its very cold out. EDIT--- I don't think its frozen pipes. Took a look at the panel again and under the heater there is a microswitch. When I turn Jet1 on the micro switch looks like its trying to close but isn't quite reaching the closed position. When I take a screwdriver and maunally close the switch the heater works fine. Guess some component has probably gone bad. The circ pump is supposed to always be on but only seems to work now when I have jet 1 on so theres an issue somewhere besides the microswitch. Gotta wait till Wednesday though because in the DC area nothing is open on this monday or tuesday (Inauguration traffic) which I think is stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan.The.Spa.Man Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 Called the dealer, service department is closed. I talked with a sales guy who had me turn off the power then back on and immediately start the pumps, they ran for about 5 seconds. He said it is likely freezing pipes. I'm going to take a blow dryer to the pump near the heater and he suggested running the jets after that for a while to help heat the insides up. Does this sound like a good course of action or is there something better that I can do? It's about 10F outside and the tub is sitting on a brick patio, so its very cold out. EDIT--- I don't think its frozen pipes. Took a look at the panel again and under the heater there is a microswitch. When I turn Jet1 on the micro switch looks like its trying to close but isn't quite reaching the closed position. When I take a screwdriver and maunally close the switch the heater works fine. Guess some component has probably gone bad. The circ pump is supposed to always be on but only seems to work now when I have jet 1 on so theres an issue somewhere besides the microswitch. Gotta wait till Wednesday though because in the DC area nothing is open on this monday or tuesday (Inauguration traffic) which I think is stupid. I don't know of any micro-switch in the Caldera, so I'm not sure what you are talking about there. As far as the breaker, if you are hitting the red test button and the breaker is not tripping off then it means it is not on. So there are three possibilites with it. 1. It may be tripping off immediately on its own when you reset it 2. Do you have a 50 amp breaker in the main panel feeding the 30 and 20 amp breakers in the sub panel or do you have a 30 and 20 in the main panel feeding the 30 and 20 at the sub-panel? If you have a 30 and 20 in the main panel, then check to see if the 20 in the main panel is tripped or off. 3. could have a bad 20 amp breaker as someone mentioned above Are you still getting a flashing temp light after resetting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yunus Posted January 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 I checked and its a 50 amp feeding the 30 and 20. So it could be a bad 20 as it still won't go off when I hit the test button. I tried shutting every breaker off and then turning them back on. Now I'm getting 4 flashing lines after just a few seconds. I'm pretty sure at a minimum the circulation pump is dead. I took the housing cover off of it and tested and it had 120V at the pump and it was not doing anything. I don't know if a circulation pump not working could cause any of these other problems. Is there anyway to verify the 20 amp breaker is providing power to the tub without taking the panels off again? I'm wary of opening it up anymore than necesary because of the cold weather. What I mean is, what does the 20amp breaker power that I could test, air Pump2, lights... Thanks for all your help with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan.The.Spa.Man Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 I checked and its a 50 amp feeding the 30 and 20. So it could be a bad 20 as it still won't go off when I hit the test button. I tried shutting every breaker off and then turning them back on. Now I'm getting 4 flashing lines after just a few seconds. I'm pretty sure at a minimum the circulation pump is dead. I took the housing cover off of it and tested and it had 120V at the pump and it was not doing anything. I don't know if a circulation pump not working could cause any of these other problems. Is there anyway to verify the 20 amp breaker is providing power to the tub without taking the panels off again? I'm wary of opening it up anymore than necesary because of the cold weather. What I mean is, what does the 20amp breaker power that I could test, air Pump2, lights... Thanks for all your help with this. The 20 amp controls the heater. You would need to check for voltage at the wires coming out of the breaker on the 20. Between the two hot wires you should have 220 volts. four flashing lines is a bad thing in cold weather. It most likely means that the lines that are in the motor compartment are frozen. Any of the 3/4" lines would need to be thawed out, then the circ pump replaced. This is a tough one to diagnos without being there, multiple things going on that are strange. The 20 amp breaker could be bad but that is uncommon. The heater may be bad (grounded) which would make the breaker trip after resetting, also fairly uncommon. Based on the fact that the 30 amp breaker controls the circ pump, it should have been running but it doesn't sound like it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ps558 Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 I checked and its a 50 amp feeding the 30 and 20. So it could be a bad 20 as it still won't go off when I hit the test button. I tried shutting every breaker off and then turning them back on. Now I'm getting 4 flashing lines after just a few seconds. I'm pretty sure at a minimum the circulation pump is dead. I took the housing cover off of it and tested and it had 120V at the pump and it was not doing anything. I don't know if a circulation pump not working could cause any of these other problems. Is there anyway to verify the 20 amp breaker is providing power to the tub without taking the panels off again? I'm wary of opening it up anymore than necesary because of the cold weather. What I mean is, what does the 20amp breaker power that I could test, air Pump2, lights... Thanks for all your help with this. The 20 amp controls the heater. You would need to check for voltage at the wires coming out of the breaker on the 20. Between the two hot wires you should have 220 volts. four flashing lines is a bad thing in cold weather. It most likely means that the lines that are in the motor compartment are frozen. Any of the 3/4" lines would need to be thawed out, then the circ pump replaced. This is a tough one to diagnos without being there, multiple things going on that are strange. The 20 amp breaker could be bad but that is uncommon. The heater may be bad (grounded) which would make the breaker trip after resetting, also fairly uncommon. Based on the fact that the 30 amp breaker controls the circ pump, it should have been running but it doesn't sound like it is. The micro switch you mentioned is the pressure switch. the circ pump is suppose to close it to turn the heater on. If the circ pump is dead try taking off the wires on the pc board and see if the breaker trips, it might be the circ pump. Most spas have a freeze protection built in which will turn on the jet pumps automatic if water temp get to cold. I am not sire if Caldera does this or not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yunus Posted January 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Spoke to the dealer today. They said they don't have any circ pumps in stock but have them on order and it will take 7-10 days to get them in. Once they have it in stock they will come out to replace it/troubleshoot the problems. They suggested I winterize the tub by draining it and taking a wet/dry vac to the jets to clear them of water. Does any of this sound abnormal? Other than the not having what seems to me to be a common part in stock. Ps558 I tried your test and with the circulation pump disconnected from the board, jets work fine and I get a flashing temp light but no 4 lines. Which leads me to believe that the circ pump is shorted and is the cause of these problems. Anyone familiar enough with Caldera's to tell me if my crazy idea of manually holding down the heater to the on position while running pumps 1 and 2 is safe? I get water flow coming from the jet that is connected to the circ pump. The only difference is the circ pump is not on. I would only be doing this for maybe a minute or 2 a day to put some hot water in the tub. I guess I could just heat up 15 gallons of water and dump that into the tub and turn the jets on, probably have the same effect and be safer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan.The.Spa.Man Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 [quote name='Yunus' date='Jan 19 2009, 04:43 PM' post='73191' Anyone familiar enough with Caldera's to tell me if my crazy idea of manually holding down the heater to the on position while running pumps 1 and 2 is safe? I get water flow coming from the jet that is connected to the circ pump. The only difference is the circ pump is not on. I would only be doing this for maybe a minute or 2 a day to put some hot water in the tub. I guess I could just heat up 15 gallons of water and dump that into the tub and turn the jets on, probably have the same effect and be safer. Not sure what you mean by "hold down the heater to the on position" You have water coming out of the small return jet that is connected to the circ pump? The only way there could be water flow there is if the circ pump is working, there is nothing else connected to it. Try taking the filter out, reset the breakers and see if the flashing temp light goes away. A dirty filter or a clogged circ pump would cause the temp light to flash. This problem shouldn't have anything to do with the 20 amp breaker not resetting though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yunus Posted January 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 Even with the circ pump disconnected (from the circuit board I pulled the black and white wires going into the circ pump) when I turn on jet 1 I can see lots of bubbles/water moving through the see through line going through the circ pump into the heater and when I put my hand over the small jet that the circ pump pushes water through, I can feel a decent flow of water coming out. I can't be certain its the same pressure as when the circ pump is going but I know water is coming out. When I say holding the heater on, the pressure switch that ps558 was talking about is what I was also talking about, if I press it in, the heater turns on. I'll take pictures and post them with labels so what I am saying is clearer. I don't know the proper terminology for some of the things and that is probably making it more confusing than it is. But when I take the circ pump offline (disconnected) everything else works, except the heater but that is not supposed to work without the circ pump, from my understanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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