A Little Help With Onzen After Heavy Use - Arctic Onzen

[Dust]

Yeah! My first post

Anyways, just a quick preface to this is that yes, I've called the Onzen hotline about 4 times now trying to get a response. They never answer and never return messages. I love how I bought an 18,000 dollar tub that I could have essentially bought at home depot, with two "backups" for the same price, just to have the strong "dealer support", and now I'm hoping that someone will answer my message board post on a third party web site! At least I'm not bitter

So, let me say after that harsh opening that I do love our Arctic, and the Onzen is amazing... it is nearly maintenance free. Alk and pH barely move, and Sanitizer has been entirely hands off under light use.

However:

(Note that I use Chlorine based salt - I ordered it with bromine based, but they shipped the wrong one)

1) When my wife and I use the spa (re-used, or no, swimwear... but few other special precautions) for an extended time (up to 90 minutes) we completely deplete the measureable sanitizer. The tub takes about 2-3 days to get back to measureable levels, and about 5 days to get back to "spa ideal". So we can't really use the tub for a week, but at least it gets back. It would be nice to be able to use the spa more than once a week. Any advice on what is going on here would be nice. Note that we add 4 capfuls of Arctic REFRESH after this use, which seems to do nothing.

2) This is the more worrisome one. Since getting the spa 2 months ago, we have only had people over twice. The first time was my best friend. There was just the two of us in the spa, and we used it for about 60 minutes (this was maybe the 5th time the spa was used). After a bit, I noticed that there were 1000s of "floaties" floating around in the water. If I had to describe it, I'd say it looks like flakes of dead skin. And actually, that’s what I thought it was... since my friend has a flakey scalp, and it had never happened when my wife and I used the spa. Friend of course was completely embarrassed and has never used the hot tub again (no I didn't blame him... he had just came to the same conclusion).

The next morning, I went to check on the tub... it had the wonderful ring of pale brown goo (which I later learned happens from too much oily crap in the water) and there were still the floaties in the water. I dumped in more REFRESH (8 capfuls at this point), and cranked the filtration to 2d / 3f (from 2d/ 2f).

For five days I monitored the spa. By the next day the floaties were gone, and the brown ring never came back... but I wasn't getting any sanitizer reading. So I dumped in more REFRESH (now up to 12 capfuls)

Day 6 I checked again, still nothing. I was pretty worried at this point, what with no sanitizer for 6 days. I checked the water with the little electrical measuring device, and the reading was low (300 to 400, were as I was used to 600 to 700 at initial fill) So I dumped in 4 more capfuls of refresh (16 capfuls) added two more cups of salt, replaced the filter (thinking maybe all the floaties had collected on it and were constantly using up my chlorine), threw two oil absorbing pads into the tub, and turned the Onzen cycle up from 2 to 4. I also followed the directions to ensure both sanitizer and ozone generation were happening, which they were (oh, and I was waiting for 2 call backs from the Onzen hotline, which I never got).

On day 7 I finally had a blue tint on my test strip. Day 10 and I was back to (the lower) spa ideal on my test strip. Since it seems it takes Onzen about 3 days to be ready for use again after moderate to heavy use I figured my problem was "a bunch of dead skin" which I fixed when I replaced the filter, so no worries....

3) Until yesterday, when we had people over for the second time. This time it was my wife and I, and 3 different people (not the friend from the first time). Again, we notice the floaties.... 1000s and 1000s of the things. That seemed odd to me... it was a stretch to think that was skin before (since there were so many floaties) but now it was even less likely, considering 2 times people were over, and 2 times we had this problem....

SO WHAT THE HECK ARE THE FLOATIES?!!!? lol

After everyone got out, I immediately used 4 capfuls of refresh, and turned the filter cycle from 2d / 2f to 2d / 4f (the highest it goes). This morning, the floaties were gone... but the brown slimy goo ring was back (assuming more people, more oils... though my wife and I never have caused that ring around the tub before), and of course, no sanitizer level is measurable.

So, now I am going to arctic tomorrow, getting my BROMINE salt like I original ordered and buying a REAL filter (not these cheap disposable things arctic started pushing last year) and I am doing a water change. I wanted to ask these questions in case there is anything I can do during / after the water change to help out and get me through to hopefully February before needing another.

1) What are the floaties, and how do I stop them / clean them / fix them?

2) How can I stop the light brown slimy ring from appearing when I know people are in my tub that might be oily or lotiony? What do I do once I get those oils in my tub? Keep in mind I am switching to a real filter, so can actually use real chemicals again

3) We need to be able to use our tub more than once a week. Right now Onzen seems to take about 3ish days to recover after use, and refresh does NOTHING for us. It’s currently an 1800 dollar system that lets me use my tub 1-2 times a week, while my neighbors Costco special with a 19.99 floating tablet holder can be used multiple times a day. Let me tell you, that SUCKS What can I do?

4) Why the heck is refresh being so useless? Will it be better with bromine?

5) How can I get some support from Arctic? It was hard enough to get the sales people to even deal with me when they wanted to make a sale (does "we don't like to negotiate price, most of our customers have artwork worth more than the tub you are buying" sound familiar to anyone? hehe)... post sale has been impossible. No one ever returns messages.

Thanks for any help anyone can offer.

Cheers,

Dust

[cpumodem]

Dust welcome to the forum. I replaced my tub this July with an Arctic Glacier Signature.

You might want to read Arctic Refresh or Onzen

First off you don't want to overboard with Arctic Refresh as it is only shock. And adding more salt will not help either

My wife and I only use the tub 3 to 5 times a week. I run the Onzen system only 4 hours a day and that provides me with the right amout of chlorine.

Now if we use the tub friday night then saturday mornning, saturday night, and then sunday morning I'll change the Onzen to run 12 or 16 hours and then change it back to 4 hours on Tuesday.

Yes it does take time to generate chlorine and it will make no difference even if you switch to Bromine.

What I did this weekend instead of changig the time that the Onzen sytem runs my wife and I used the tub friday night. I shocked it with Refresh, the onzen ran for 4 hours starting at 11PM. Before going in saturday morning check and had 4 PPM of chlorine. Soaked 60 minutes and when I got out shocked with Refresh, put the tub in boost mode and after it was done check chlorine level and it was 0.

Now this is what I did differnet I added 1 and 1/2 teaspoons of Arctic Boost, which is chlorine to bring the chlorine level back up. Again I'm only running the Onzen system 4 hours a day.

BTW yes I had the same problem as you after 6 people used the tub including 4 adults and 2 children my chlorine level dorpped to 0.

The next time I have a large bather load I'll bump up the Onzen system to run 16 to 20 hours a day before the heavy use. After heavy use I'll shock the system and add Arctic Boost let the system run 16 to 20 hours for a day and then drop it down to only 4 hours a day.

That is if the large bather load is only for a day.

Chuck

[tony]

Dust welcome to the forum. I replaced my tub this July with an Arctic Glacier Signature.

You might want to read Arctic Refresh or Onzen

First off you don't want to overboard with Arctic Refresh as it is only shock. And adding more salt will not help either

My wife and I only use the tub 3 to 5 times a week. I run the Onzen system only 4 hours a day and that provides me with the right amout of chlorine.

Now if we use the tub friday night then saturday mornning, saturday night, and then sunday morning I'll change the Onzen to run 12 or 16 hours and then change it back to 4 hours on Tuesday.

Yes it does take time to generate chlorine and it will make no difference even if you switch to Bromine.

What I did this weekend instead of changig the time that the Onzen sytem runs my wife and I used the tub friday night. I shocked it with Refresh, the onzen ran for 4 hours starting at 11PM. Before going in saturday morning check and had 4 PPM of chlorine. Soaked 60 minutes and when I got out shocked with Refresh, put the tub in boost mode and after it was done check chlorine level and it was 0.

Now this is what I did differnet I added 1 and 1/2 teaspoons of Arctic Boost, which is chlorine to bring the chlorine level back up. Again I'm only running the Onzen system 4 hours a day.

BTW yes I had the same problem as you after 6 people used the tub including 4 adults and 2 children my chlorine level dorpped to 0.

The next time I have a large bather load I'll bump up the Onzen system to run 16 to 20 hours a day before the heavy use. After heavy use I'll shock the system and add Arctic Boost let the system run 16 to 20 hours for a day and then drop it down to only 4 hours a day.

That is if the large bather load is only for a day.

Chuck

Salt systems seem to have the same issues bromine floater systems have. They work well when everything is constant. Once things change, you upset the chemistry. You've answered what would be my first question...can you just add another type of chlorine if needed. Low sanitizer levels cause all kinds of problems so when you overburden your water you need a quick fix and that is chlorine (Arctic Boost).

[Dust]

Thanks for the fast response and lots of good info all

Yeah, I'm going to need a chlorine based shock around like boost to help keep my tub not become a warm bathtub after anytime someone uses it. I am curious exactly what onzen is doing though if I still have to manually chlorinate just like everyone else without this 1800 dollar add on

Tony, its very true... it seems onzen has just enough chlorine generating ability to keep up with the chlorine that is reduced by the ozone that onzen produces! lol

Judging by the low ORP reading and Refresh's inability to help restore free chlorine, I'm curious if my total chlorine (not just free chlorine) is low as well. My understanding is that ORP is low in a saline system, it means your salt has dropped too low due to chlorine evaporation (therefore less material to convert back to salts). I wish that could be verified somewhere. I really feel that as great as Onzen might be, Arctic started selling it too soon, as no one there really understands it much.

I wonder if we could find who manufactures the salt generating part of onzen so would could talk with them about it.

Do either of you two have any idea what the 1000s and 1000s of semi transparent little floaties could be? My guesses so far are

- Dead skin (though, why does it only happen when other people come over, and that would be a LOT of skin)

- Pieces of filter (though I add no chemicals other than Ph down and refresh, and it happened to two filters while each were less than 2 weeks old)

- Some kind of solidification of the salt in the water?

- Some kind of algae bloom?

This is my shopping list for arctic today

- Get a couple of the old style reusable filters that can be cleaned, and can handle all the different chemicals

- Filter cleaning brush / tool

- Free AND total chlorine test kit

- Chlorine based Shock

- Water clarifier

- Water oil solidifier (can't use this with the new style filters, which is why I'm getting the old kind)

Does that shopping list make sense? Anything I'm missing, or shouldn't bother with?

Thanks again all!

Dust

[BMR]

Sadly it seems that I have the exact same problems that you have and cannot resolve them. I have been to the Arctic Sps dealer numerous times and they are trying to be helpful, but everything I try does not work. The water is cloudy and stays that way and yes I have tons of floating white pieces in my tub.

THEORY: Onzen works perfect if you set up the tub get it into equalibrium and then DON'T use the tub. Otherwise bather load is too much for the system and it cannot compensate. If there is someone out there who has a new tub ( 6 months or less ) with a working Onzen system that does not need Herculean efforts to get back to the good evertime that people use the tub, please comment.

BMR

Dust: I left you a message in your profile.

[Tom]

I want to merge all the Onzen threads into one for better time management. It will give us one single place to look. Any objections?

[Dust]

I think thats a great idea!

[larrys1]

Dust, are you certain that your Onzen generator dial is turned ALL-THE-WAY to the left (counter-clockwise) to the plus sign?

Also, try emailing len@goarctic.com. I called and they said he was the one to answer any and all questions dealing with Onzen. I have got e-mail replies back from him so I know it works.

Normally, the wife and I do not ever need to throw in Refresh. I have the Onzen topside set to CP3 (per Len's recommendation). I may boost it up a notch or two if we have people over AND use a half capful of Refresh (you should never need more than that if it is working correctly). Then I turn it back down to CP3 when it is just the two of us again.

[Tom]

Important Onzen Information

[medicineman]

I am using my Leisure Bay spa with a Chlorine Salt generator (not ONZEN) with disposable filters. I have never had floaties!

These little floaties you are having are either a byproduct of your bad water chemistry...or your non-spa-owning friends leaving cooties in the water. : )