Running Out Of Mps Shock And Won't Get More For A Few Days

[roromissd]

Well, I guess I just asked the question in the title. We won't have more MPS shock for a few days and we'd still like to use the tub. If we can't get some MPS from our friend, can we use chlorine after each use and how much?

I know a few do use chlorine after each use and have said it dissipates before your next use so you don't smell the heavy fumes from it. Is this true?

Anne

[WaterBeast]

If you are on bromine or chlorine, yes.

<warning: I may not know what I am talking about here>

Baqua - I have no idea, but I believe they use peroxide. I suspect peroxide would work as a shock too, just don't ask me how much. I would use a practical model of adding until I hit 10+ppm bromine (oxidizing power).

<end warning>

There is a recent post from ChemGeek translating MPS to 6% unscented bleach:

>> As for the quantity of chlorine vs. MPS needed to oxidize chemicals, two teaspoons of Dichlor is equivalent to four teaspoons of MPS and is equivalent to about 3 fluid ounces of 6% bleach. So long as you use equivalent quantities, you aren't really using "more" of any of these compounds unless you are comparing by volume, but given that bleach is mostly water, volume isn't really a valid basis for comparison.

[roromissd]

If you are on bromine or chlorine, yes.

<warning: I may not know what I am talking about here>

Baqua - I have no idea, but I believe they use peroxide. I suspect peroxide would work as a shock too, just don't ask me how much. I would use a practical model of adding until I hit 10+ppm bromine (oxidizing power).

<end warning>

There is a recent post from ChemGeek translating MPS to 6% unscented bleach:

>> As for the quantity of chlorine vs. MPS needed to oxidize chemicals, two teaspoons of Dichlor is equivalent to four teaspoons of MPS and is equivalent to about 3 fluid ounces of 6% bleach. So long as you use equivalent quantities, you aren't really using "more" of any of these compounds unless you are comparing by volume, but given that bleach is mostly water, volume isn't really a valid basis for comparison.

Thanks that does help! So, if we add 2 1/2 tsp of MPS after each use, then we'd add half that (1 1/4tsp ) in dichlor, correct?

If I'm understanding this wrong, let me know. I know we add that amount of dichlor once a week and it brings it to the appropriate level.

Anne

[WaterBeast]

That's how I read it.

I am still experimenting with the proper amount of MPS to add after use and weekly.

It is clear to me that you need to consider multiple factors in your specific situation when shocking. I'm at 280 gallons, spa frog bromine+chlorine, and ozone, so I am seeing that a smaller amount of MPS goes a long way, and I can get well in excess of 10ppm bromine quickly if I add more than than 1 TBS of MPS at a time without re-testing.

I'm thinking about rotating to bleach periodically just to change oxidizers and potentially gain a minor increase in efficacy. I also have a bunch of peroxide from the prior spa / spa owner that used Baqua that I am considering burning off as shock.

[limulus]

Wow, I thought 1 teaspoon of dichlor = 1 tablebspoon MPS. 3 tsp = 1 tbs, correct? Tonight, I shocked with dichlor and it took 3 tablespoons to get it to 10 ppm.

[roromissd]

Wow, I thought 1 teaspoon of dichlor = 1 tablebspoon MPS. 3 tsp = 1 tbs, correct? Tonight, I shocked with dichlor and it took 3 tablespoons to get it to 10 ppm.

I need to find the topic from about a week or so ago when one of the "gurus" told how much dichlor to add per person per use. I guess I need to go back and search.

I did put in the 1 1/4 tsp of dichlor this evening after our use. I hate that smell! But tomorrow it will be gone anyway. And in a couple of days we'll have more MPS. I think that's the biggest benefit I like about using MPS instead of dichlor, the fumes, or lack there of. Chlorine gives me a serious headache.

For now it's what we've got.

Anne

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

That's how I read it.

I am still experimenting with the proper amount of MPS to add after use and weekly.

It is clear to me that you need to consider multiple factors in your specific situation when shocking. I'm at 280 gallons, spa frog bromine+chlorine, and ozone, so I am seeing that a smaller amount of MPS goes a long way, and I can get well in excess of 10ppm bromine quickly if I add more than than 1 TBS of MPS at a time without re-testing.

I'm thinking about rotating to bleach periodically just to change oxidizers and potentially gain a minor increase in efficacy. I also have a bunch of peroxide from the prior spa / spa owner that used Baqua that I am considering burning off as shock.

DO NOT MIX BAQA PRODUCTS WITH CHLORINE OR BROMINE. BAQA DOES NOT GET ALONG!!!! YOU WILL MAKE SOUP AND COULD POSSIBLY CAUSE SERIOUS DAMAGE TO YOU OR YOUR SPA!!!

[chem geek]

Wow, I thought 1 teaspoon of dichlor = 1 tablebspoon MPS. 3 tsp = 1 tbs, correct? Tonight, I shocked with dichlor and it took 3 tablespoons to get it to 10 ppm.

It's more like 1 teaspoon of Dichlor = 2 teaspoons of MPS which is 2/3 of a tablespoon. And yes, one tablespoon is 3 teaspoons. To get to 10 ppm FC in a 350 gallon spa should only take 5 teaspoons which is a little less than 2 tablespoons. If it took 3 tablespoons for you, then perhaps your Dichor is very granular so not as dense. Most Dichor has roughly 1 fluid ounce (2 tablespoons or 6 teaspoons) weigh approximately 1 ounce. One cup of Dichlor should weigh roughly 8 ounces or 1/2 pound. If you have a postage or food scale, you can see if this is true for your Dichlor. It's also possible that your Dichor isn't pure (check the ingredients).

As for MPS, 1 fluid ounce of volume (2 tablespoons or 6 teaspoons) should weigh 1.36 ounces so one cup of MPS should weight about 10.8 ounces. Again, this is something you can check. In Europe, most food and chemical measurements are done with weight using scales because that's far more accurate since the density of various products can vary. The rules of thumb I use are for typical product, but the specific products you use may be different.

Richard

[roromissd]

Wow, I thought 1 teaspoon of dichlor = 1 tablebspoon MPS. 3 tsp = 1 tbs, correct? Tonight, I shocked with dichlor and it took 3 tablespoons to get it to 10 ppm.

It's more like 1 teaspoon of Dichlor = 2 teaspoons of MPS which is 2/3 of a tablespoon. And yes, one tablespoon is 3 teaspoons. To get to 10 ppm FC in a 350 gallon spa should only take 5 teaspoons which is a little less than 2 tablespoons. If it took 3 tablespoons for you, then perhaps your Dichor is very granular so not as dense. Most Dichor has roughly 1 fluid ounce (2 tablespoons or 6 teaspoons) weigh approximately 1 ounce. One cup of Dichlor should weigh roughly 8 ounces or 1/2 pound. If you have a postage or food scale, you can see if this is true for your Dichlor. It's also possible that your Dichor isn't pure (check the ingredients).

As for MPS, 1 fluid ounce of volume (2 tablespoons or 6 teaspoons) should weigh 1.36 ounces so one cup of MPS should weight about 10.8 ounces. Again, this is something you can check. In Europe, most food and chemical measurements are done with weight using scales because that's far more accurate since the density of various products can vary. The rules of thumb I use are for typical product, but the specific products you use may be different.

Richard

Wow! That was a lot of info and some went over my head. We use Spa Essentials. It's what the dealer gave us. And we use the scoop they give us which is (I believe) 5 teaspoons. They gave us instructions using the scoop. So, they'd tell us 1/2 a scoop of MPS after each use. 1/4 scoop of Chlorine once a week.

Anne

[limulus]

OK, I found my reference to the dichlor/MPS equivalency. In the Nature2 manual, dichlor may be substituted for MPS. (see page 7) They say: "1 tablespoon dichlor = approximately 3 tablespoons MPS". Knowing that 3 teaspoons = 1 tablespoon, I have to assume that 1 tablespoon MPS = 1 teaspoon dichlor, correct?

[WaterBeast]

Limulus: Yes.

Hilbilly: Too late. My skin turned blue-gray and is melting off me in nasty globs.

More seriously, I was talking about leftover peroxide as an temporary alternative oxidizer not adding biguanide to a bromine spa.

Otherwise I suppose could use it to bleach my hair to complement my new blue-gray complexion.

[roromissd]

Limulus: Yes.

Hilbilly: Too late. My skin turned blue-gray and is melting off me in nasty globs.

More seriously, I was talking about leftover peroxide as an temporary alternative oxidizer not adding biguanide to a bromine spa.

Otherwise I suppose could use it to bleach my hair to complement my new blue-gray complexion.

Yeah, with peroxide, what can you do with it if you need?

Otherwise, thanks all of you for your valuable info! It's helped. We're using what seems to be the right amount of dichlor given that it's two of us who shower right before we get in and we are suitless ! So, this should work until we get MPS. And I'll be gone for the weekend so it should only be my husband using it, well, unless he has a raging party while I'm gone and invites his mistresses over . I'll test tomorrow before I go, as it will be time to check everything.

Thanks again!

Anne

[Maxemily]

I'll be gone for the weekend so it should only be my husband using it, well, unless he has a raging party while I'm gone and invites his mistresses over...

What was that address again?

[chem geek]

OK, I found my reference to the dichlor/MPS equivalency. In the Nature2 manual, dichlor may be substituted for MPS. (see page 7) They say: "1 tablespoon dichlor = approximately 3 tablespoons MPS". Knowing that 3 teaspoons = 1 tablespoon, I have to assume that 1 tablespoon MPS = 1 teaspoon dichlor, correct?

They are correct by weight in that it takes 3 times as much MPS by weight as Dichlor, but by volume they are incorrect as it takes 2 times as much MPS as Dichlor. This is because MPS is denser than Dichlor. Of course density is a function of how the product is manufacturered -- how granular vs. powdered it is, for example. I assume that Dichlor has a density where 1 ounce weight is around 1 fluid ounce, so 1 cup is around 8 ounces weight. For MPS, 1 ounce weight is 0.73 fluid ounces (4.4 teaspoons), so 1 cup is around 10.8 ounces weight. These calculations also assume fairly pure Dichlor and fairly pure Oxone which is 43% potassium monopersulfate.

Richard