Alternatives To Chlorine/bromine

[Gene]

Reading through this forum is pretty discouraging. Everyone seems to have a different opinion. I, as it seems many others, am looking for alternatives to chlorine/bromine, due to smell and skin irritation. I've been using The Natural for years with a shock, but now I'm hearing I also have to use chorine/bromine as a sanitizer.

Is there anywhere a simple chart of alternatives to chorine/bromine, for someone who just wants reasonably healthy water? I don't really care if it's approved or not, as long as it will do a reasonable job, and is fairly simple to maintain. I'm willing to pay more to be lazy

Also, where can I read about salt water systems? I hadn't heard of them before. I imagine it's more complex than just adding salt?

Gene

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

Reading through this forum is pretty discouraging. Everyone seems to have a different opinion. I, as it seems many others, am looking for alternatives to chlorine/bromine, due to smell and skin irritation. I've been using The Natural for years with a shock, but now I'm hearing I also have to use chorine/bromine as a sanitizer.

Is there anywhere a simple chart of alternatives to chorine/bromine, for someone who just wants reasonably healthy water? I don't really care if it's approved or not, as long as it will do a reasonable job, and is fairly simple to maintain. I'm willing to pay more to be lazy

Also, where can I read about salt water systems? I hadn't heard of them before. I imagine it's more complex than just adding salt?

Gene

What are you using for shock? Sometimes this is the sanitizer and it may be enough for your particular use. The only system that truely does not use any chlorine or bromine is Baqa, it is peroxide. It has many issues of its own, some hate it some love it. You have you use some sort of an EPA approved sanitizer technically. If the Naatural has been working for you, you have not gotten the spa rash or sick, why do you want to change. The EPA does not come to your house.

[Gene]

Reading through this forum is pretty discouraging. Everyone seems to have a different opinion. I, as it seems many others, am looking for alternatives to chlorine/bromine, due to smell and skin irritation. I've been using The Natural for years with a shock, but now I'm hearing I also have to use chorine/bromine as a sanitizer.

Is there anywhere a simple chart of alternatives to chorine/bromine, for someone who just wants reasonably healthy water? I don't really care if it's approved or not, as long as it will do a reasonable job, and is fairly simple to maintain. I'm willing to pay more to be lazy

Also, where can I read about salt water systems? I hadn't heard of them before. I imagine it's more complex than just adding salt?

Gene

What are you using for shock? Sometimes this is the sanitizer and it may be enough for your particular use. The only system that truely does not use any chlorine or bromine is Baqa, it is peroxide. It has many issues of its own, some hate it some love it. You have you use some sort of an EPA approved sanitizer technically. If the Naatural has been working for you, you have not gotten the spa rash or sick, why do you want to change. The EPA does not come to your house.

I'm using Renew, a non-chlorine shock, once a week - but I thought I understood a sanitizer was needed in addition to shock in order to use something like The Natural. Did I misunderstand? Is weekly shock plus The Natural sufficient?

I actually did pick up a UTI from somewhere a year ago - e-coli antibiotic resistant. Had to go on IV's to get rid of it - a real pain. There's no way of telling if it came from the hot tub or not, but that's what started me researching on if The Natural was sufficient, or if I was possibly taking too big a risk. I've heard e-coli is the most common bacteria in a hot tub.

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

renew is not a sanitizer, you are right. It is MPS which is an oxidizer.

To kill that bad germs, you have to have some residual of sanitizer to be safe, ozone does kill stuff, but not as fast as the EPA says it has to, so it can not be considered a sanitizer. The Natural are enzymes that "eat" bacteria, but not as fast as the EPA says they need to so thats where it falls into this "war".

After talking several times back and forth with the guy from the Natural hot tub company, they got in trouble from the EPA for selling their prouct as a sanitizer, so they tell people to use dichlor with it. Their theroy is if you add dichlor when you exit the tub, leave the cover open with the jets on for 10 minutes, the product will kill off everything before the next spa use and be just about gone. Dichlor does not last long in hot water, and its 99% pure if you get a quality kind, so according to them between gassing off and being "used" up at your next tub use it is chlorine free.

Every person that goes into the tub brings fecal matter and urea in, as gross as that may seem its just what happens. You are taking a risk without a sanitizer. If a tub is maintained properly, chlorine should have little to no smell, with the natural it should help with any dry skin issues.

Good luck on your quest!

[Gene]

renew is not a sanitizer, you are right. It is MPS which is an oxidizer.

To kill that bad germs, you have to have some residual of sanitizer to be safe, ozone does kill stuff, but not as fast as the EPA says it has to, so it can not be considered a sanitizer. The Natural are enzymes that "eat" bacteria, but not as fast as the EPA says they need to so thats where it falls into this "war".

After talking several times back and forth with the guy from the Natural hot tub company, they got in trouble from the EPA for selling their prouct as a sanitizer, so they tell people to use dichlor with it. Their theroy is if you add dichlor when you exit the tub, leave the cover open with the jets on for 10 minutes, the product will kill off everything before the next spa use and be just about gone. Dichlor does not last long in hot water, and its 99% pure if you get a quality kind, so according to them between gassing off and being "used" up at your next tub use it is chlorine free.

Every person that goes into the tub brings fecal matter and urea in, as gross as that may seem its just what happens. You are taking a risk without a sanitizer. If a tub is maintained properly, chlorine should have little to no smell, with the natural it should help with any dry skin issues.

Good luck on your quest!

Thanks. A dumb question - what are MPS and dichlor? I see the terms used all the time her, but don't know what they mean. Are these substances I can ask for at a spa store? Are they forms of chlorine?

[Private Shrink]

renew is not a sanitizer, you are right. It is MPS which is an oxidizer.

To kill that bad germs, you have to have some residual of sanitizer to be safe, ozone does kill stuff, but not as fast as the EPA says it has to, so it can not be considered a sanitizer. The Natural are enzymes that "eat" bacteria, but not as fast as the EPA says they need to so thats where it falls into this "war".

After talking several times back and forth with the guy from the Natural hot tub company, they got in trouble from the EPA for selling their prouct as a sanitizer, so they tell people to use dichlor with it. Their theroy is if you add dichlor when you exit the tub, leave the cover open with the jets on for 10 minutes, the product will kill off everything before the next spa use and be just about gone. Dichlor does not last long in hot water, and its 99% pure if you get a quality kind, so according to them between gassing off and being "used" up at your next tub use it is chlorine free.

Every person that goes into the tub brings fecal matter and urea in, as gross as that may seem its just what happens. You are taking a risk without a sanitizer. If a tub is maintained properly, chlorine should have little to no smell, with the natural it should help with any dry skin issues.

Good luck on your quest!

Thanks. A dumb question - what are MPS and dichlor? I see the terms used all the time her, but don't know what they mean. Are these substances I can ask for at a spa store? Are they forms of chlorine?

Gene,

Just a quick vote for BaquaSpa (no, I don't sell it). It has no odor, is easy to use but is supposedly more expensive. Also, some people apparently experience "BaquaSpa cough," a respiratory reaction to it. I've used it for 2 years now. I had some of the brown goo initially a couple of years ago, but proper maintenance made it go away after a few weeks. My wife and I ARE very careful about our water...we always shower before and go in without any clothes (bathing suits still have some soap in them). Nevertheless, to be fair several people talk about BaquaSpa being good for a few years until white mold develops, and I can only maintain the water and hope. All that being said, so far it's been wonderful.

[Gene]

Thanks for all the help. A few questions remain.

First, can someone tell me what are MPS and dichlor? I see the terms used all the time her, but don't know what they mean. Are these substances I can ask for at a spa store? Are they forms of chlorine?

Second, what I'm understanding from the afore conversations is that The Natural + weekly shock should be sufficient, just not as rapid as the EPA requires. Is that the gist of what is being said?

I should mention that my hot tub is usually used by a relatively large group of friends (we sometimes pack 12 or more into my 8-seater!), plus my nightly soak. So the main concern is with a large group of people, which increases the likelihood of e-coli in the water, since it's pretty hard to ask everyone to wash their butt before they get in! I figure a weekly shock should be done immediately after my friends are in to purify the water. Does this make sense?

Many thanks for your advice!

[Whoneedsavacation]

MPS is non-chlorine shock using monopersulfate. Dichlor is a form a chlorine, dichloisocyanuiric acid.

I use bromine and when I keep the levels where they should be, odor and irritation are minimal to nonexistant. I guess that most people who have problems with bromine and chlorine odor and irritation use more than they really need.

The Natural plus shock still won't give you the level of protection the EPA requires. I think it's up to you how much risk you want to take. If the effect is too slow, you don't get the bacteria population down very much before you introduce more, and even though some of the population is being killed off, it can be growing faster than it's decreasing.

[Whoneedsavacation]

Oh, washing your butt won't eliminate all e-coli introduction into the water anyway.... human beings aren't sealed....

[Dr. Spa]

I wouldn't recommend The Natural in your case (and we sell it). It tend to work well on spas that are only used a few time a week by only a few people (2 or 3 people, 2 or 3 times a week). The more the spa is used, the less effective it tends to be. You sound like you're WAY over what I've seen and experienced for The Natural to be effective.

[Gene]

I wouldn't recommend The Natural in your case (and we sell it). It tend to work well on spas that are only used a few time a week by only a few people (2 or 3 people, 2 or 3 times a week). The more the spa is used, the less effective it tends to be. You sound like you're WAY over what I've seen and experienced for The Natural to be effective.

I'm open to recommendations. I have friends with all sorts of skin sensitivities, thus the avoiding chlorine/bromine. What do you recommend? What about ClearWater Blue, another I've been looking at?