Buying A New Tub

[Dime]

Hello all,

We are rookie tub buyers, in search of our first one. I've been doing some reading, trying to get a handle on things, but there seems to be a lot of chaff floating around. We are in Michigan, so it gets a little cold, not too bad. It will probably be a winter activity mostly.

Anyway, there are 2 well rated dealers in our area - an arctic and a marquis. Further away gets us into more places but we have not ventured there yet.

As yet, we have not wet tested anything. We have sat in the Arctic Klondike and got a quote on it from the dealer. Fairly high, but all signs seem to point to ARctic being a bit on the higher side. I am ok with that if their claims of good performance, quality and low running costs are at all true. I have read some older reviews (2005-6) of jets coming off in the Arctics - definitely don't want that - but nothing recently. I could be a sucker for sales pitches, but I did like the features and the cover (although granted I know little).

A good friend of mine got the Marquis Epic last summer. He's the research junkie I aspire to be, and I take his selection seriously. He's in CO tho, so not as cold.

Does anyone have any thoughts on these 2 tubs? Ranges for quotes we should be getting?

We are off to wet test shortly. I have heard some things about the depth of the arctic not being sufficient. Any thoughts there?

Anyways, I appreciate any and all thoughts on the subject. Big decision!

Daryl

[Water Boy]

Hello Dime,

Good luck on your search for a new hot tub. I am an Arctic Dealer in KS, so if you have any questions, feel free to post them here or PM me. I can tell you that Arctic is a quality built spa, as is Marquis. They are both one of 8 spas spasearch certified. I encourage you to wet test both and go from there. I wanted to address the two issues you had brought up with the Arctic Spas. They did have a small issue with some jets popping out on some spas in the past, but that issue has been resolved. Now they use a threaded jet instead of a tabbed jet. The threaded jets don't use tabs so that isn’t an issue. Also as far as the depth goes, Arctic has some very deep spas. The spa you are looking at has a 39" tall cabinet and has some deep seats in it. Let us know how the wet test goes, and feel free to ask any questions.

[Dime]

Thanks for the info. We did an Arcitc wet test on Saturday - went real well. They had the Tundra wet, although we are looking at the Klondiker. So unfortunately, that means we did not get to try the Lounger. That's a big concern. As you are no doubt aware, the Klondiker is the 2 lounger model, so we're really putting our faith in liking the loungers! We are seeing the tub as primarily for myself and my wife in the evenings - not so much for entertainment. The kida will make do with whatever there is, so no concerns there Even for entertaining times, we are thinking we won't be looking at huge crowds - other couples etc. Anyways, thats the background on looking at the 2 lounger model.

That being said, we really liked the jets performace and layout, most of the seats, and pump performance. Maybe we have to try out a really good one or a really bad one or both to get a better sense. Yes, the depth was really good - one seat was higher, but others were fine. Good cool down seat also.

The marquis dealer doesn't have any Epics at the moment - won't have them for 3 weeks - so we're kinda stuck on that one. There are D1 and Hotsprings dealers about an hour away, but not too keen on that distance.

The next big concern is location. I hope this link works - its a picture of the back of the house where we are planning to put it. We are thinking right in front of the little landing of those deck stairs. It will therefore be out in the open and NOT under the walkout deck. I've always liked being in a tub at night and seeing stars or out in it while its snowing. Add to the both my wife and I feel the "under deck" part to be a bit closed in. Does anyone have opinions on this? Or things they've learned with their own? I am worried about weather wear and tear on the cabinet and the cover mostly. Saw a wicked cool (and wicked expensive) umbrella thing that we could use for sun tho!

Back of house

Mockup of proposed location

Thanks for any input. I'm gonna try to keep the site updated on the progress - electrical installation, ground prep, delivery, usage.

[waterboy]

It appears that there are 2 " water boys" on this forum. I am the one without the space.

We wet tested 10 different spas and Arctic was deep enough for me and I am 6 feet tall. Arctic made it to our short list but the Pacific Calypso won as it fit perfectly and we got a great deal on the fully loaded floor model. We liked the Arctic and the pacific spas as they both had the salt water option. The only issue I had with the arctic, and it really was not an issue, is we founfd it to be noisier. The Arctic spas have very long seats so you can almost lounge in them. We wet tested the summit legend extreme and it had great jets.

As you see from this forum wet test as many as you can, eliminate the ones you did not like and then go back for one final wet test and wet test your 2 or 3 favourites on the same day.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Thanks for the info. We did an Arcitc wet test on Saturday - went real well. They had the Tundra wet, although we are looking at the Klondiker. So unfortunately, that means we did not get to try the Lounger. That's a big concern. As you are no doubt aware, the Klondiker is the 2 lounger model, so we're really putting our faith in liking the loungers! We are seeing the tub as primarily for myself and my wife in the evenings - not so much for entertainment. The kida will make do with whatever there is, so no concerns there Even for entertaining times, we are thinking we won't be looking at huge crowds - other couples etc. Anyways, thats the background on looking at the 2 lounger model.

Wet testing a spa is always a good idea. If you're considering a spa with a lounge a wet test becomes even more important. Now if you're looking for a spa with a double lounge you'd be nuts to buy it without wet testing it. Lounges (even those designed well) are not for everyone and there is no way to tell without wet testing it (and dry testing is not a good indicator either). A double lounge is a niche spa that only a couple companies make and it should only go to the right people who know it's for them. Many people get single lounge spas and find that not everyone in the family fits it well but at least they have 2/3 of the spa without a lounge. At a minimum you should wet test a same depth single lounge spa from that same brand or you're really gambling IMO.

[Dime]

Wet testing a spa is always a good idea. If you're considering a spa with a lounge a wet test becomes even more important. Now if you're looking for a spa with a double lounge you'd be nuts to buy it without wet testing it. Lounges (even those designed well) are not for everyone and there is no way to tell without wet testing it (and dry testing is not a good indicator either). A double lounge is a niche spa that only a couple companies make and it should only go to the right people who know it's for them. Many people get single lounge spas and find that not everyone in the family fits it well but at least they have 2/3 of the spa without a lounge. At a minimum you should wet test a same depth single lounge spa from that same brand or you're really gambling IMO.

Cool - that's good advice, and we were really thinking that way also. The "2 lounger" idea is theory at this point for us, and we're real nervous about not trying something like that out. We would really like to test out the actual one that has 2 loungers as they are even different shaped. Even getting to test a one lounger tub wouldn't be giving us a full picture. The dealers that I've talked to always tell me what is currently filled - is it acceptable to get them to fill the one you are looking at?

[Water Boy]

Hi Dime. Glad to hear the wet test went well. Does the dealer currently have a Klondiker on the floor? If so I don’t see why it would be a problem to get that tub filled so you can wet test it. Just ask nicely and it shouldn’t be a problem at all. Also if you really liked the Tundra, I wouldn’t rule that out as an option as well.

As far as the location goes, that would be a very nice spot. It is out in the open but still close enough to your back door for winter time to get in and get out quickly. With the Arctic Cover, it comes with a three year warranty. Most covers last anywhere from 3-5 years, no matter where you put it. We sell a cover protectant that I would recommend for you as well. With the cabinet on the Arctic's, they weather very well. It is made of a Western Red Canadian Cedar. Cedar is often the wood of choice that is used on high end outdoor furniture, as it does not rot. It will require a stain and seal about once every 2-3 years, but that is very minimal, and will keep it looking new. As a matter of a fact, our company offers a plan for free for our customers where we will come out once per year for the first five years and treat the cabinet for no charge. It keeps the customers very happy as well. Also, we just did a trade in on a 5 year old Arctic, that wasn’t covered like you are planning, and it still looks just as good as the news ones it is sitting next to on the floor. Good luck on your search and let me know if you have any more questions.

Ed

[Dime]

Wet testing a spa is always a good idea. If you're considering a spa with a lounge a wet test becomes even more important. Now if you're looking for a spa with a double lounge you'd be nuts to buy it without wet testing it. Lounges (even those designed well) are not for everyone and there is no way to tell without wet testing it (and dry testing is not a good indicator either). A double lounge is a niche spa that only a couple companies make and it should only go to the right people who know it's for them. Many people get single lounge spas and find that not everyone in the family fits it well but at least they have 2/3 of the spa without a lounge. At a minimum you should wet test a same depth single lounge spa from that same brand or you're really gambling IMO.

You raise an interesting point. Perhaps we were hasty in thinking 2 lounger version? I didn't realize it wasn't a commonly sold configuration.

[Dime]

Hi Dime. Glad to hear the wet test went well. Does the dealer currently have a Klondiker on the floor? If so I don’t see why it would be a problem to get that tub filled so you can wet test it. Just ask nicely and it shouldn’t be a problem at all. Also if you really liked the Tundra, I wouldn’t rule that out as an option as well.

As far as the location goes, that would be a very nice spot. It is out in the open but still close enough to your back door for winter time to get in and get out quickly. With the Arctic Cover, it comes with a three year warranty. Most covers last anywhere from 3-5 years, no matter where you put it. We sell a cover protectant that I would recommend for you as well. With the cabinet on the Arctic's, they weather very well. It is made of a Western Red Canadian Cedar. Cedar is often the wood of choice that is used on high end outdoor furniture, as it does not rot. It will require a stain and seal about once every 2-3 years, but that is very minimal, and will keep it looking new. As a matter of a fact, our company offers a plan for free for our customers where we will come out once per year for the first five years and treat the cabinet for no charge. It keeps the customers very happy as well. Also, we just did a trade in on a 5 year old Arctic, that wasn’t covered like you are planning, and it still looks just as good as the news ones it is sitting next to on the floor. Good luck on your search and let me know if you have any more questions.

Ed

Hey, thanks again for the info. Yes, there is a Klondiker on the floor. We sat in all the spots of it dry, although I don't know if that's any type of indication of anything. What is the model with the one lounger? Kodiak? I don't know if they have one of those or not.

Now i'm all concerned about this 2 lounger idea!!

[spatech (the unreal one)]

You raise an interesting point. Perhaps we were hasty in thinking 2 lounger version? I didn't realize it wasn't a commonly sold configuration.

There are very few double lounge spas sold because it is a niche spa but in no way am I knocking it. It’s just that I know lounges are not for everyone so a double lounge makes it that much more important to wet test. Sales people often will say how many people who own a lounge spa go loungeless on their next spa and lounges take up a lot of space so to have a double you really should both be in love it. I'm sure there are many people out there who love their double lounge but the old saying goes doubly true here "its better to find out in the showroom how well your spa fits you (or doesn't) than to find out in your back yard".

[Water Boy]

Yes the one lounge model is called the Kodiak. They also have a 7 ft version of that called the Cub.

[IL Parrothead]

Dime,

I think the Arctic cedar cabinets are gorgeous. I didn't wet test them, because there isn't a dealer anywhere near me. I did wet test Marquis (they have cedar available AND a synthetic -- Durawood), and just ordered an Epic this past Saturday. I went with the Durawood. I already have a deck to stain every couple of years. I didn't want more maintenance. I opted for nothing overhead as well. And I'm with you -- I think I'm going to get one of those offset umbrellas, so I can swing it over the tub in the rain or direct sunlight.

[Dime]

Dime,

I think the Arctic cedar cabinets are gorgeous. I didn't wet test them, because there isn't a dealer anywhere near me. I did wet test Marquis (they have cedar available AND a synthetic -- Durawood), and just ordered an Epic this past Saturday. I went with the Durawood. I already have a deck to stain every couple of years. I didn't want more maintenance. I opted for nothing overhead as well. And I'm with you -- I think I'm going to get one of those offset umbrellas, so I can swing it over the tub in the rain or direct sunlight.

Those cabinets do look really nice don't they? I like the cedar look. The idea of the Durawood is appealing also. As i said earlier, the Marquis dealer doesn't have any Epics in at the moment, but I would like to try those out also. What is your configuration for loungers? What was the determining factor in getting the Marquis?

[Dime]

Hi Dime. Glad to hear the wet test went well. Does the dealer currently have a Klondiker on the floor? If so I don’t see why it would be a problem to get that tub filled so you can wet test it. Just ask nicely and it shouldn’t be a problem at all. Also if you really liked the Tundra, I wouldn’t rule that out as an option as well.

Ed

So it was a no-go on filling the klondiker and testing it out. The reasoning was the amount of work involved - the showroom and outdoor test areas are filled to capacity with fireplaces, outdoor furniture and other tubs, so they decided it was too much to move all around for the wet test of the klondiker. The owner was apologetic about it and said he has an 06 Kodiak at home and we could come over to his house and try that lounger out. That wouldn't solve the differing shapes of the lounger issue tho.

He also said that he has no issue with replacing the tub with another one free of charge after delivery if we decide we are not 2 lounger people. I'm assuming switching to the Kodiak or Tundra Given that we did test the Tundra and really liked it, its not a bad option I suppose.

That being said, is this a normal practice? I was quite surprised, although not wet testing the loungers was a deal breaker for me, so not a total surprise I guess. What would you all say that approach?

[spatech (the unreal one)]

So it was a no-go on filling the klondiker and testing it out. The reasoning was the amount of work involved - the showroom and outdoor test areas are filled to capacity with fireplaces, outdoor furniture and other tubs, so they decided it was too much to move all around for the wet test of the klondiker. The owner was apologetic about it and said he has an 06 Kodiak at home and we could come over to his house and try that lounger out. That wouldn't solve the differing shapes of the lounger issue tho.

He also said that he has no issue with replacing the tub with another one free of charge after delivery if we decide we are not 2 lounger people. I'm assuming switching to the Kodiak or Tundra Given that we did test the Tundra and really liked it, its not a bad option I suppose.

That being said, is this a normal practice? I was quite surprised, although not wet testing the loungers was a deal breaker for me, so not a total surprise I guess. What would you all say that approach?

It can be a lot of work to set up a wet test (not every store is equipped the same) but its even more work to deliver a spa and then change it out later. He likes the latter idea because you've already purchased in that scenario and he'll take his chances you'll like the spa and/or not want the hassle of having another one delivered. If he knows you are going to buy for sure he should set up the wet test and see at his store whether it works for you but he doesn't know for sure that you are buying from him. So, if you are SURE you are going to buy one spa or another from them I'd offer a $300 non-refundable deposit if he'll set up that wet test. If you don't like it you just get the other one you're considering. This way he knows he's not setting up a lot of work for you to say "sorry it didn't work" and then go elsewhere.

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

Hi Dime. Glad to hear the wet test went well. Does the dealer currently have a Klondiker on the floor? If so I don’t see why it would be a problem to get that tub filled so you can wet test it. Just ask nicely and it shouldn’t be a problem at all. Also if you really liked the Tundra, I wouldn’t rule that out as an option as well.

Ed

So it was a no-go on filling the klondiker and testing it out. The reasoning was the amount of work involved - the showroom and outdoor test areas are filled to capacity with fireplaces, outdoor furniture and other tubs, so they decided it was too much to move all around for the wet test of the klondiker. The owner was apologetic about it and said he has an 06 Kodiak at home and we could come over to his house and try that lounger out. That wouldn't solve the differing shapes of the lounger issue tho.

He also said that he has no issue with replacing the tub with another one free of charge after delivery if we decide we are not 2 lounger people. I'm assuming switching to the Kodiak or Tundra Given that we did test the Tundra and really liked it, its not a bad option I suppose.

That being said, is this a normal practice? I was quite surprised, although not wet testing the loungers was a deal breaker for me, so not a total surprise I guess. What would you all say that approach?

I think the dealer is really trying to work with you. It takes a lot to move everything, pay staff to do it ect. I can see where he is coming from as we come upon a busy time of year. He is allowing you to test his personal tub, which would give you a feel for the lounge(the big issue is that some people float out of them) and offering to replace the tub if you do not like it, kind of the same as having a wet test to me in a more personal setting, don't like it then pick a different tub. I think I would applaud him at this point.

[Dime]

It can be a lot of work to set up a wet test (not every store is equipped the same) but its even more work to deliver a spa and then change it out later. He likes the latter idea because you’ve already purchased in that scenario and he’ll take his chances you’ll like the spa and/or not want the hassle of having another one delivered. If I were buying that would not be my desired way to go. If he knows you are going to buy for sure he should set up the wet test and see at his store whether it works for you. So, if you are SURE you are going to buy one spa or another from them I’d offer a $300 non-refundable deposit if he'll set up that wet test. If you don't like it you just get the other one you’re considering. This way he knows he’s not setting up a lot of work for you to say "sorry it didn't work" and then go elsewhere. If he says no to this I'd be bothered that he'd be willing to use my yard for testing but not his store since you'd basically be guaranteeing reimbursement for the work.

I can see that angle - we would be tied to the Arctic at that point, and the super downside would be if we wound up not liking the Kodiak but wanting the lounger! I guess testing out his would be the way to go. That was a nice offer I thought - i guess whatever you have to do to get the sale eh?

Perhaps I'll try out the lounger - can't hurt i guess!

[spatech (the unreal one)]

I can see that angle - we would be tied to the Arctic at that point, and the super downside would be if we wound up not liking the Kodiak but wanting the lounger! I guess testing out his would be the way to go. That was a nice offer I thought - i guess whatever you have to do to get the sale eh?

Perhaps I'll try out the lounger - can't hurt i guess!

I only offered that thought if you were SURE you were going to buy from them and were tempted to get the double lounge without testing because at that point a deposit for testing is better than a full check and then hoping. I think tis wiser than buying the double lounger with the provision that he'd be willing to swap it out if you didn't like it. While that is nice to offer that I wouldn't personally want to use my yard as the test area because I know when it's delivered I'd want to be done with the process. Of course the idea of testing his personal spa would be even better if it properly equates to the spa you're interested in.

[Dime]

Hi Dime. Glad to hear the wet test went well. Does the dealer currently have a Klondiker on the floor? If so I don’t see why it would be a problem to get that tub filled so you can wet test it. Just ask nicely and it shouldn’t be a problem at all. Also if you really liked the Tundra, I wouldn’t rule that out as an option as well.

Ed

So it was a no-go on filling the klondiker and testing it out. The reasoning was the amount of work involved - the showroom and outdoor test areas are filled to capacity with fireplaces, outdoor furniture and other tubs, so they decided it was too much to move all around for the wet test of the klondiker. The owner was apologetic about it and said he has an 06 Kodiak at home and we could come over to his house and try that lounger out. That wouldn't solve the differing shapes of the lounger issue tho.

He also said that he has no issue with replacing the tub with another one free of charge after delivery if we decide we are not 2 lounger people. I'm assuming switching to the Kodiak or Tundra Given that we did test the Tundra and really liked it, its not a bad option I suppose.

That being said, is this a normal practice? I was quite surprised, although not wet testing the loungers was a deal breaker for me, so not a total surprise I guess. What would you all say that approach?

I think the dealer is really trying to work with you. It takes a lot to move everything, pay staff to do it ect. I can see where he is coming from as we come upon a busy time of year. He is allowing you to test his personal tub, which would give you a feel for the lounge(the big issue is that some people float out of them) and offering to replace the tub if you do not like it, kind of the same as having a wet test to me in a more personal setting, don't like it then pick a different tub. I think I would applaud him at this point.

I get the same feeling, although its tempered by knowledge that its a sale I guess. Maybe I'm too negative. The dealer has been there for many years, and have a lot of repeat business for other items after the spa sale by the sounds of it, so I am feeling like its a good dealer.

[IL Parrothead]

As i said earlier, the Marquis dealer doesn't have any Epics in at the moment, but I would like to try those out also. What is your configuration for loungers? What was the determining factor in getting the Marquis?

The Epic has one lounger, called the Adirondack chair. It's a little more upright than some loungers -- somewhere between a lounger and a captain's chair. My wife and I liked it. Our favorite seat, though, is the deep therapy seat in the corner on the other side of the filter/waterfall. The determining factor for us was therapy. Felt great. Had the therapy pillar, which my wife fell in love with and which I thought really offered some neat variations on therapy. Hopefully, you'll get to test one.

[Dime]

Thanks to all for the thoughts on new tub brand. That process is continuing - got some more wet tests on the sked.

The next thing for us is site preparation I think. This may be too generic a question, but what are the thoughts on that? Our proposed site is kinda wet at the moment. One of the dealers said its ok to just put down limestone. Should I be digging out a hole, putting 4x4s around and filling with sand and then a layer of limestone? I read in another thread that the stone needs to be less than 3/4" max correct?

Or should we be doing everything we think we want for landscaping around the place prior? I may have erred in not addressing this sooner, although there's not much that can be done at this time of year around here anyway.

[Kent Ohio]

We did a 14' X 13' concrete slab, stamped concrete. The Sundance specs state needs to be 4" thick for in our case the Certa.

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

Thanks to all for the thoughts on new tub brand. That process is continuing - got some more wet tests on the sked.

The next thing for us is site preparation I think. This may be too generic a question, but what are the thoughts on that? Our proposed site is kinda wet at the moment. One of the dealers said its ok to just put down limestone. Should I be digging out a hole, putting 4x4s around and filling with sand and then a layer of limestone? I read in another thread that the stone needs to be less than 3/4" max correct?

Or should we be doing everything we think we want for landscaping around the place prior? I may have erred in not addressing this sooner, although there's not much that can be done at this time of year around here anyway.

Are you in an area that freezes? If the spot you want to put the tub is wet and your are in an area that freezes, this could casue issues if you just set it on limestone. Even a small wood deck raised just a few inches off the ground would help keep it out of the mud/wet area and no issues from "frost heaves" in the winter, or do as you stated above with sand etc. I would also wait till it is delivered for the landscaping part. It may get dug up/damaged when they are delivering the tub, plus having the tub sitting there may change how you want to landscape the area after seeing it.

[waterboy]

Concrete is definately the best option and not that expensive. Concrete will prevent the following

1) It will prevent roots from getting under your tub if trees are near

2) It will not heave if you are in a cold area from water freezing and thawing around your tub

3) If you do not have a permanent solid base it will prevent rodents and wasps etc from nesting inside your tub. Mice will go anywhere warm in the winter and they love to chew things.

4) concrete looks good and you can stamp it if you want.

5) concrete will not settle unevenly

Remember that you must have at least a foot of well compacted material under your concrete or limestone etc. You should rent a compactor to compact the ground. If you do not decide to go with concrete I would use a navvy jack or 3/4' minus pit run as this material packs well and will give you a smooth level surface. this material is also good as a subbase for your concrete.

The wood deck is also an option however I would put in some piers to prevent uneven settlement.

When you review your costs you will find that the concrete is not that expensive an option