Concerned That This May Be A Big Pronlem

[tinkerbell]

Hi, I just joined in hopes to find out if we have a problem. Contractors are saying everything is all set... but my husband who is pretty (very) knowledgeable in construct doesn't think so.

We are building a FL home with a pool. We indicated that we would be using paver bricks for the pool surface, and the builder dropped the lanai's deck to accommodate full size pavers. Pool contracted had initiate meeting with us, and went on to say how they would only use full size as mixing thick and thins would not be ideal, since they are different size and colors may be substantially off.

Well, when I called and informed them of my paver choice, they wanted to "make sure I knew" that the pavers would be mixed (thick and thins). When the paver installer called I spoke more in depth with him about the thick & thin pavers and he went on to tell me that there could be a big difference in color, but with existing decks, that is the way they do it. Our deck wasn't "existing" but new - and made for the full size pavers.

My husband went and inspected the pool and he sees the pool shell pitching way lower then the deck, and the footers for the screen are also lower. He is concerned as to how they plan to handle this, but now they are saying it was just a miscommunication, and that we will get full size pavers. My husbands thoughts are they will try and build it up, and that we will end up having issues down the road as the 2 joined areas could separate and cause cracking and such...

Can anyone tell us if this sounds like a 'cover-up' or a common occurrence that is a easy fix!

Thank you

[Chris W]

Maybe it's just me, but I think a drawing of what you're trying to do and what the issue is would help. When I 1st read your note it sounded like you were putting pavers in the pool? Later it sounds like you're talking about the decking, but still not clear to me what exactly what the issue is. Sounds like maybe the elevation of the pool relative to the decking is off?

[tinkerbell]

Chris,

Sorry - I rattled on too much, and would have helped if I checked my spelling!! but yes - that is exactly what I was trying to say. They made the pool and the footings too low. The entire pool deck will be with pavers, however - only the lanai is currently a concrete portion, the remaining area from the edge of the Lanai to the pool is dirt - and will be paved. Hope this makes a little sense - I have attached a picture.

[finishguy]

Chris,

Sorry - I rattled on too much, and would have helped if I checked my spelling!! but yes - that is exactly what I was trying to say. They made the pool and the footings too low. The entire pool deck will be with pavers, however - only the lanai is currently a concrete portion, the remaining area from the edge of the Lanai to the pool is dirt - and will be paved. Hope this makes a little sense - I have attached a picture.

Is the pool finished? Your pavers wont go right up to the pools shell. Your coping or whatever your using will be 3-4 inches higher than the beam of the shell. Im not sure if im understanding correctly or not? The way im reading it is the concrete deck is higher than the shell, and it should be.

[tinkerbell]

The pool is not finished and coping will go around the pool edge, and paver's will go over the entire area, including the already poured concrete lanai. Our understanding was that both the pool and the lanai area needed to pitch (towards the dotted line - that's where the drain strips will be). With the pool and footers as low as they are - even when they put on the coping and paver's, they will never reach the same height as the lanai area paver's - unless someone builds up the area another 3-4 inches on top of the paver's 3 inches.

[finishguy]

The pool is not finished and coping will go around the pool edge, and paver's will go over the entire area, including the already poured concrete lanai. Our understanding was that both the pool and the lanai area needed to pitch (towards the dotted line - that's where the drain strips will be). With the pool and footers as low as they are - even when they put on the coping and paver's, they will never reach the same height as the lanai area paver's - unless someone builds up the area another 3-4 inches on top of the paver's 3 inches.

The pitch for the drain on the pavers in the deck area, is minimal and you shouldnt be able to see it with your eyes. If your SURE pavers are going on the lanai it sounds too high. They must be planning on having the lanai higher than the deck area pavers, your going to have a step. OR they might be putting some very thick pavers in the deck area and some very thin ones on the lanai? I have seen guys cut pavers to make them thinner????

[tinkerbell]

well - this is the problem - we think they are covering up the issue and saying everything is fine when it's not. From day one, there was to be full size pavers on the Lanai.. extending to the pool coping. Then they call and say they want us to sign a wavier because they are putting thin pavers instead of the full pavers on the lanai... they changed this midstream. My husband then researched and found out the thin pavers can vary greatly in color and size - and this was NOT what was originally planned. According to the pool company it was because they contractor poured the deck to high, therefore they need to use thin pavers. We called the contractor and they said - no.. the deck was poured to accommodate full size pavers. meanwhile, the pool was shot, and footing were poured too low, but they are now saying "don't worry - we are using full pavers throughout" but they aren't saying how they plan to address the height issue - they are pretending that there isn't an issue.

[tinkerbell]

well - this is the problem - we think they are covering up the issue and saying everything is fine when it's not. From day one, there was to be full size pavers on the Lanai.. extending to the pool coping. Then they call and say they want us to sign a wavier because they are putting thin pavers instead of the full pavers on the lanai... they changed this midstream. My husband then researched and found out the thin pavers can vary greatly in color and size - and this was NOT what was originally planned. According to the pool company it was because they contractor poured the deck to high, therefore they need to use thin pavers. We called the contractor and they said - no.. the deck was poured to accommodate full size pavers. meanwhile, the pool was shot, and footing were poured too low, but they are now saying "don't worry - we are using full pavers throughout" but they aren't saying how they plan to address the height issue - they are pretending that there isn't an issue.

[finishguy]

well - this is the problem - we think they are covering up the issue and saying everything is fine when it's not. From day one, there was to be full size pavers on the Lanai.. extending to the pool coping. Then they call and say they want us to sign a wavier because they are putting thin pavers instead of the full pavers on the lanai... they changed this midstream. My husband then researched and found out the thin pavers can vary greatly in color and size - and this was NOT what was originally planned. According to the pool company it was because they contractor poured the deck to high, therefore they need to use thin pavers. We called the contractor and they said - no.. the deck was poured to accommodate full size pavers. meanwhile, the pool was shot, and footing were poured too low, but they are now saying "don't worry - we are using full pavers throughout" but they aren't saying how they plan to address the height issue - they are pretending that there isn't an issue.

They can cut full pavers and make them thin, so they look the same. So the lanai area concrete was there before the pool was? Did you have a different contractor do this or was it all contracted through your pool builder? Another thing is that they can set the coping stones on a bed of mud and use thicker coping stones, this will raise the deck area pavers a bunch. Im guessing your gonna be OK but dont sign waivers unless you had the lanai work done by another person.

[PoolsByLibhart.com]

When you do pavers on existing patio's they are all thin paver, sand set. this is because of the thresh hold at your back door. This is not unusual. The pavers are going to be mud set on your beam and footers (which will mean you the concrete will be slightly lower) and the deck will be sand set. I do not see a problem, it just might be that you are getting concerned early in the project. Many questions that come up between the builder and owner are premature and are generally solved during the next construction phase. I understand your concerns and it just might be that it was not better defined to you how the process works. As a builder that takes great pride in our customer - builder relationship it might be a good idea to take photos of the process and if you still feel that, down the road, you are having issues then approach a different venue for assistance. In the State of Florida there is a association called the FSPA that not only supports contractors but also pool owners or purchasers. They want to make sure that the industry standards are kept high in this state. Contact them and see if they have any recommendations. From what I see above, the Pool Contractor is not in the wrong and doing exactly what he or she should be doing.

[ParagonPool&Supply]

When you do pavers on existing patio's they are all thin paver, sand set. this is because of the thresh hold at your back door. This is not unusual. The pavers are going to be mud set on your beam and footers (which will mean you the concrete will be slightly lower) and the deck will be sand set. I do not see a problem, it just might be that you are getting concerned early in the project. Many questions that come up between the builder and owner are premature and are generally solved during the next construction phase. I understand your concerns and it just might be that it was not better defined to you how the process works. As a builder that takes great pride in our customer - builder relationship it might be a good idea to take photos of the process and if you still feel that, down the road, you are having issues then approach a different venue for assistance. In the State of Florida there is a association called the FSPA that not only supports contractors but also pool owners or purchasers. They want to make sure that the industry standards are kept high in this state. Contact them and see if they have any recommendations. From what I see above, the Pool Contractor is not in the wrong and doing exactly what he or she should be doing.

a little off topic...but that's what I like about Florida...state regulation may be a pain in the rear some of the time, but in NC we need better pool building inspections and regulations...that may take some money out of my pocket from correcting mistakes made by previous builders and servicemen, but each time I see some of these clowns that come out of the woodwork and build a jacked up pool, I get so frustrated about how these goons got a contract in the first place.

[PoolsByLibhart.com]

Florida is a great state to build pools in. We actually just built a pool in Charleston, SC and were amazed on how anyone can build pools there and the only inspection was the rebar.

[ParagonPool&Supply]

Florida is a great state to build pools in. We actually just built a pool in Charleston, SC and were amazed on how anyone can build pools there and the only inspection was the rebar.

yea ours are just electrical and bonding inspections!! I do work for a builder here that is from Florida and coincidentially he's the only builder around here that can build a pool properly...we have all sorts of toothless hillbillies digging holes around here!!!

[PoolsByLibhart.com]

Thats funny, we still have those folks. This is still the south

[tinkerbell]

UPDATE!

The "existing" patio is new, and was deliberately poured lower, to accommodate full size pavers - thin pavers were never ever intended for this area, as it was planned so that all the pavers would match. The pool contractors goofed, and it's official - they - the pool and footings were made TOO LOW (3 inches).

Today - we went to the house (it's new construction) and they have poured 3 inches of new concrete on top of the existing pool shell and footings. We see this a a big issue.. maybe we are over reacting, but my husband is afraid that if they didn't use some type of bonding agent between these 2 layers - it will eventually crack.

Another issue we see is regarding the first step into the pool (which actually is a sun shelf) Now since they had to add an additional 3 inches the first step into the pool from the deck will be over 14 inches - because they have NOT raised the inside pool steps, only the outside of the shell and footings.

Maybe it's not a big deal.. ?? but if it is we need to know.

[tinkerbell]

Also - skimmer was too low and had to be raised as well... they chipped it out and did whatever! I hope that someone will tell us that all should be fine and we will end up with a 14" step as the only issue or that something else needs to be address before they go any further.

Thank you