finishguy

When you remove your old deck, cut the bond beam and remove some if your worried. An experienced contractor will have no problem, dont worry.

Ok to start I'm not a tile pro by any means. I am a plaster contractor so I'm not gonna say this is the only way to do it. When I install tile on a pool that is going to have a cantilever deck like exposed agg or a concrete slab like your getting, the tile goes on before the deck. Thats why I said earlier that its a little trickier. Your going to have to find the highest spot on the beam of the shell. Start there, the tile will have to be around a half inch higher that the beam. You must get it very level and it cannot be wavy. You will have to put up a mud bed and thats the hardest part. Its the best way to get the tile straight. I put the mud bed on the whole pool before the tile goes on and get it as nice as you can. Applying the tile should be very easy if the mud has been put on nice. They will be putting the forms over the tile for the deck so it has to be done properly or you will have problems with the deck. Do not worry at all about the thickness of the tile line being half inch thick. Its nice when its very thin but thats not usually the case, unless the shell is perfect. One inch or more is no problem if thats what it takes to get the walls straight. YOU MUST START AT THE HIGHEST PART OF THE SHELL AND MAKE SURE ITS LEVEL ALL THE WAY AROUND and you will be OK.

Its easy if the shell (gunite) is done properly. If your using coping stones its easy. The trickiest part will be the mud. Some guys just slap on some thin set and put it on. To do it properly you need to put some mud up to make the shell good and straight, thats the hard part. Then thinset or mud the tile on, that should be the easy part. If you have any skills its not hard at all. Go slow and you will be ok. When your laying the tile make sure the mud is a little thicker than wet. If your having a cantilever deck its not going to be so easy, but its not hard either. The problem with this is that if the tile isnt just like the deck guy needs it, hes leaving and your redoing the tile.

If the builder thinks an acid wash will fix it, do it now. Your plaster needs to cure for 14-21 days before it should be drained. I personally think its calcium being sucked out of the fresh plaster. Plaster dust usually settles in the bowl area and can be brushed off even after a COUPLE days. I have had this problem and every other plasterer has had the same thing happen. Colored plaster with liquid dye is a a gamble. You can do 50 of them and they all look great then the next 2 look like crap. Acid washing your colored plaster pool empty is going to probably be a disaster, sorry to say it. They probably will try a power washer also. I have had one pool saved with this sort of problem. It looked like white dust on the walls and floor but only half the pool had it. You could feel it and it looked like clouds, kinda milky. I hired a professional service guy to do an under water acid wash. He basically lowed the Ph a lot by adding acid to the pool. It must be done by a pro because its easy to mess the finish up and the HEATER. I would suggest doing it this way instead of wasting the water,its very easy to streak a colored pool acid washing it empty!!! You have nothing to lose so let them try whatever they want, your plaster came with a warranty!!! If it doesn't work out you might want to try and get another product that they offer. You really need to have something with powder dye in the mix, they are all much better than adding liquid dye to plaster. Diamond Brite, Sun Stone, River Rok,colored quartz, any thing. Even if you had to pay the difference it would be worth it. Dont let them fool you into thinking its so much more because its only a few hundred more for the material than plaster and liquid!!!! They knew when they added liquid dye that cost 25.00 to your pool, what could happen. Sorry to be so blunt about it but i know what you just spent and what you expect to get.

I would say they are probably correct. I would also say plaster is the weakest part of your pool. It really doesnt take much time to eat the finish away. I use something called AQUA SHIELD to add to the plaster that is supposed to add some life.Its a very good product but not sure if its gonna make a huge difference or not. When you had your pool plastered last was it in the middle of summer or very hot out? I worked in the extreme heat for 15 years and pools dont get troweled enough sometimes to work up cream. If the plaster gets hard very fast I dont believe the finish will last as long. If your PH gets down low for a couple days the finish (cream) wont last long and being thin to start is not good!!!! this pool was plastered for the first time in the month of may. In phoenix, the month May is warm but not hot like in july, aug, 106-115. I watched them apply it and they seemed to do an excellent job and did not seemed rushed. the temp in the middle 80's when they started and probably in the mid 90's when finished. The pool builder said the cause was high clorine, but you said low ph may be the cause. As high clorine seems to dissipate in hot weather, it does not seem to stay high very long. High in the morning and low in the afternoon. I can understand how low ph would be harmful to a plaster surface but I don't understand how high clorine could cause the plaster to become so soft that you can scratch if off with a fingernail. Water chemistry for swimming pools seems to be very complicated and the lessons are very expensive so I really appreciate your input. Is it pretty common to be replacing plaster after 5 years? Seems crazy as I felt I was keeping the water pretty close to the recommendations. I am thinking I might try salt water generator this time as I was not too sucessful with clorine and acid. I want to blame to plaster job but if it was the plaster, I probably would have had problems before year four. I would suggest that no matter who did your interior finish, the outcomes would be the same. Years back pool sanitizers moved from Dichlor base to Trichlor. It is more available chlorine but has a PH of about 2.8. It offers a better chlorine for pools but owners must religiously watch their PH and Alkalynity levels to ensure they are kept within industry standards, or your water will get acidic (Corrosive) and start working on the sealing finish of the pool. This is usually accompanied by the development of spot etching, a very visible measles appearance on the finish. In addition, in a worst case prolonged low TA or PH condition, you will start seeing the formation of nodules on the surface of the plaster. The water literally begins to extract minerals from the plaster finish if the water is deficient in certain levels. All of these conditions are water induced and make the case for careful water balance. No pool builder can protect against water conditions that become corrosive from imbalances in your water chemistry. In fact, the tell-tale signs are clear and 100% the result of water conditions that create them. It is similar to smoking cigarettes all your life and destroying your lungs. Let your TA or PH ride low for any period of time and it compromises the plaster surface, eats off the FAT (cream) of the finish, etches it and in worst situations creates the nodules. If you are uising any type of TRICHLOR product (Tablets), gas chlorine or any acidic base sanitizers, please develop the habit of checking your PH and Total Alkalynity regularly. These two readings help you ensure you are keeping a buffer (like a rolaids tablet) in the water to protect against swings from a neutral water reading to an acidic one. Remember, the life, longevity and integrity of the plaster finish, no matter who installed it, is 100% based upon the quality of the water balance in the pool. I have seen brand new pools that are less than a year old ruined by pool water balance. The better the control of your pool readings, the longer the life of the finish. Chem Expert - 38 Years of Pool Building and Care Excellent post and right on the money!!!!!

Check out the cool blue, good luck and enjoy your pool!!!

They can cut full pavers and make them thin, so they look the same. So the lanai area concrete was there before the pool was? Did you have a different contractor do this or was it all contracted through your pool builder? Another thing is that they can set the coping stones on a bed of mud and use thicker coping stones, this will raise the deck area pavers a bunch. Im guessing your gonna be OK but dont sign waivers unless you had the lanai work done by another person.

The pitch for the drain on the pavers in the deck area, is minimal and you shouldnt be able to see it with your eyes. If your SURE pavers are going on the lanai it sounds too high. They must be planning on having the lanai higher than the deck area pavers, your going to have a step. OR they might be putting some very thick pavers in the deck area and some very thin ones on the lanai? I have seen guys cut pavers to make them thinner????

The smaller quartz is a little smoother as the finish gets older. Look at super blue and compare it to aqua quartz. Your builder will have a box of small samples to show you. The smaller quartz is almost like powder and the bigger quartz is much bigger and sharper. You may not be able to tell its smoother by feeling the sample but you would if you had it in your hand out of the bag before it was mixed. The acid wash part is questionable. If you go with a color like super blue that has white cement, acid wash it. If you go with a color that has dye in it like black or dark blue, many guys dont acid wash it. Some guys know more than others when it comes to acid washing a pool with colored dye in it. Remember the cement thats in the pool, is the weekest part of your pool. When it starts to deteriate the quartz wont and you will feel it. Diamond Brite (SGM) has been around a while and is proven to be a great product, its a good choice to go with!!!!

Is the pool finished? Your pavers wont go right up to the pools shell. Your coping or whatever your using will be 3-4 inches higher than the beam of the shell. Im not sure if im understanding correctly or not? The way im reading it is the concrete deck is higher than the shell, and it should be.

I would also say that most colored quartz finishes are the same. I personaly apply Diamond Brite and Sun Stone and see no difference. I would go with the finer (smaller) quartz they offer. The applicator makes the difference so look at their work first.

I would tell the builder to try and fix it asap. If it doesnt brush off its gonna be harder to fix later, if it can be fixed. I have had this problem on colored pools that I have done. Color plaster is a nightmare for plasterers. When I do them the equipment must be running as soon as the water goes in. I also require them to use water trucks to fill the pool immediately. Colored plaster will bleach out very fast if the sun beats down on it,while filling. Grey plaster has very little black colored dye which turns the white cement grey. They can bleach out and look blotchy(white) also, very easily. Adding dye to plaster is the cheapest way to get a colored finish and to do them everything must be done correctly. Filling it fast and balancing the water, getting it brushed with equipment running immediatly, is the ONLY way to do colored plaster. Did the pool look good when you first saw it? If it did and its dust on it, it could be fixed but dont let them wait. If its getting worse by the day and not much dust is in the pool, its calcium and thats not gonna be good news. Hopefully you havent made that final payment, its the best way to get it fixed!!!!!!

Is your finish regular plaster with dye added to make it gray? Or is it actually another product?

Im not a service person but i do plaster pools. It can take two weeks for the dust to go away. I recommend running the equipment as much as possible or even nonstop. Brush the pool as much as posssible and dont let the dust sit there. Although your plaster is grey the dust should be white. I do not do many colored plaster jobs because of this problem. If your chemistry is not good the calcium can be drawn out of the plaster and shows up on colored pools. It will make colored plaster look mottled and the white dust looking areas wont brush off, its calcium. Im not sure if this is your problem or if its just dust but colored plaster is very touchy at first. If it cant be brushed off like dust get proffesional help NOW.

I would hire someone to do the liner, they are not as easy as they look. I am a tile, coping, and plaster contactor in Michigan but dont do liners. What area are you in? I know some HONEST guys that do liners and could get you some numbers if interested. Byron, Great Lakes Pool Plastering

I would say they are probably correct. I would also say plaster is the weakest part of your pool. It really doesnt take much time to eat the finish away. I use something called AQUA SHIELD to add to the plaster that is supposed to add some life.Its a very good product but not sure if its gonna make a huge difference or not. When you had your pool plastered last was it in the middle of summer or very hot out? I worked in the extreme heat for 15 years and pools dont get troweled enough sometimes to work up cream. If the plaster gets hard very fast I dont believe the finish will last as long. If your PH gets down low for a couple days the finish (cream) wont last long and being thin to start is not good!!!!

I plastered pools in Cali for 16 years and never seen one get plastered without blasting it. Now I have been in michigan for 10 years and havent seen one get sand blasted before re plastering them. I thought it was crazy but it works fine. The pools in the eastern states get much rougher than they do in the west. If your pool is rough acid washing it is fine. You must use straight acid and you must power wash the pool after, some guys neutralize it also. You must get all the hollow areas off and make sure there is no smooth areas. Never replaster without a bonding agent, NEVER. Do not let them make a home brew either. Their are 2 that is used by most, multi-coat, sgm bond coat. I would make sure that when the pool is bonded that YOU see what they are using. If its a normal size pool it only cost a couple hundred bucks for material and 1hour to roll it on. Some guys say its expensive because they are charging you way too much for it. I would not let any one plaster it that wont use bond kote of some sort. There is only 3 good reasons that a plaster job fails, No bond kote or bad bond kote application, didnt wet the pool prior to applying plaster, slow fill. I have plastered over 16,000 pools and would tell you if it was ok or not, ITS NOT!!! b.ross@att.net

It will take electric hammers, air chissels, axes, and someone who really wants it off. It has been done many times and its a chore but it can be done. When its removed if the gunite looks rough its good. If the gunite looks like its smooth or has cream stuck to it then apply bond coat. Do not let them create their own bond coat insist you see the bag or bucket it comes from. You have a bad pebble job by the sounds of it. I like to use water wands while troweling the pebble to expose them and finish it before it gets hard. Some guys just broom it when its hard but thats tricky if the pool is spotty, wet and hard in places. The acid wash is always done the same day because I like to have the pool done in 4-5 hours and not come back. If the job is good there is no problem acid washing the following day. The acid wash is only gonna clean up the film and clean the tile. If there is any cream left it will not come out with acid. Its a tricky process if you dont have experience doing it. A lot of guys try to expose it while its hard and that doesnt work. The pebbles are mixed in with the cement right out of the bag so they had it distributed even, they lost the pool. If it looks like pebble in spots and creamy cement in others with over expossed spots, they lost it. The part about the steps is kinda iffy, if they are crooked or have waves in them thats not acceptable. They can be a little crooked but if you walk up and see they are bad, they are bad.Where are you? How big is your pool? Trust me you need someone else to do your pool, they dont know how. If they did it would have been good the 2nd time, someone is paying for the material and labor!!! Where is this pool? 810 606 1295

A belt sander will sand it right off. It will sand the plaster right off also. All the other things will burn the plaster and make it ugly. A big 7 inch disk grinder with a flexible pad and sand paper is a great choice but be very careful. Its possible that you will burn the plaster, just lightly hit it. The plaster isnt as tough as you think and it will make grind marks. If the plaster is old and rough, the stain might be deep into the plaster. You will make a big ugly spot trying to get it out if it doesnt come right off.

I do them quite a bit. It will eat the finish and make your pool rougher than it is now. There is more to it than just add acid and should only be done by a pro that knows the proper way,especialy if you have a heater. You live in an area with lots of pool pros, find someone to hit it with a diamond pad. Jacks magic is a very good product but most homeowners have bad luck with it. To me it sounds like OLD plaster. If you want the best way thats very inexpensive, do it your self. Drain the water to just past the area get a belt sander and be careful. Either it will come out or it wont. Watch what your doing and your not gonna hurt anything. Fill it as soon as your done, do not let it sit without water.Fill it asap, fill it asap, fill it asap, fill it asap, fill it asap, fill it asap. GOOD LUCK

Do not drain it to acid wash it if its that old. If its a bad stain its NOT comming out. I would try and hire a company to use an under water polisher with a diamond pad. Guys charge quite a bit do do this, if you can find one. If your planing on re plastering it in a few years dont waste the money unless money is no problem. Acid wash will make your pool rough and rarely takes out stains. Take your pool brush pole, with out the brush and hold it on the stain under water and poor some acid down it. Hold it there for a few minutes and see if it helps.

Get a listing of every pool in your area. Get a list of all the pools being built in your area. Its not hard to get this info. Start licking envelopes. Most guys make more money working for someone else and do what you can on the side. When you cant handle it anymore go on your own. The pool bizz is a whored out market.

I am a plaster contarctor I have seen this happen. A third coat of plaster is not good. I would insist that it be removed. Pools do get plastered 3 times over years and it can be ok. The plaster guy will have to remove a large area around the fittings to make it look good, like 5 ft around each one. The tile line will need to be chiped down a looonnnggggg way to make it flush without seeing a hump. When the light comes on at night and the water isnt moving, its gonna be ugly if its not preped right. Tell them that you built a new pool and you want it right. They can strip it in a day its not a big deal. The next time that pool needs to be re plastered its gonna come out of your pocket to strip it, its gonna be hollow, they will at least charge for more matterial. They can strip it in a day. The plaster guys that did it 2 times and didnt get it right, wouldnt be doing it again. You say it was River Rok, was it plaster or expossed aggregate? I am a River RoK applicator and if they didnt get it right twice, it isnt gonna happen till they get some more practice. Either way it can be removed in a day!!!! Byron, Great Lakes pool plastering

I never seen them in 20 years til I moved to Mi. They say that they build quite a few here but im really wondering

I have a question for pool builders or contractrs. I have been plastering pools in Michigan and see 5-10 half and half pools a year. Fiberglass walls with gunite floors and bowl areas. I have a question about leaks. I have been plastering right up to the fiberglass walls but they are leaking. We take EXTRA care to make sure the plaster is thick and troweled nice where it meets the fiberglass but getting leaks. To me it seems like a no win situation if you really think about what we are trying to do. The fiberglass is very smooth and slick so there must be some seperation when the plaster cures. I know builders everywhere build half and halfs so what is the trick.