Dichlor? Dumb It Down For The New Guy

[greenworks]

is this dichor everyone abrevates on here Dichloro-s-Triazinetrione 100% (mine is CARE FREE BOOST from Beachcomer)? as I would like to switch to bleach for simple cost savings and am not sure if I already have "loaded" the tub as is mentioned in mnay other threads.

We are currently using beachcomer care free line as it came free witht the tub, but are with in a month of buying more chemicals.

Lastly when using bleach does a person still need the other additves that make the water"silky smooth" (beachcomer SOFT) as is descirbed on the bottle, the only other thing they gave me was CARE FREE which apparently maintains pH and prevents foam etc.

I have a basic test kit that came with the tub as well, but after reading am going to need something else I can only test bromine/Chlorine and pH what else isd really needed.

Lastly is there a thread to breakdown all the abrevations you guys use...CYA,TA....I feel like I am in another part of the world

Thanks for all the HELP

Jason

[chem geek]

Jason,

Yes, Dichlor is Dichloro-s-Triazinetrione. So yes, your Cyanuric Acid (CYA) level is probably high already. A list of abbreviations and their meanings may be found here contributed by waterbear (who also frequents this forum). The Beachcomber products described here imply that Soft is a combination of pH buffer and water softener so I suspect it's a phosphate product since that can soften the water (by reducing free calcium and magnesium in the water). However, unless your water is very hard (such as some well water), I doubt that you need this product. In fact, soft water will have a greater tendency to foam (from the soap introduced from your swim suit if not thoroughly rinsed).

Richard

[greenworks]

WOW thanks for all the info and I was getting some foaming with the foot jets on high so I can correct that know...

so then I go to a simple 6% bleach after each use? with no other additves and check the CYA every so often to ensure it hasn't gotten to low as well monitor the pH as it tends to go up while using bleach. Seems simple enough...famous last words

[chem geek]

Yes, you've got it. You can reduce the tendency for the pH to rise by lowering the TA through a process of aeration and acid addition at low pH (7.0) and then after the TA is lowered maintain a slightly higher pH target of around 7.7. As for bleach, make sure it is unscented and the 6% bleach is either Clorox Regular or off-brand Ultra bleach. You don't need to check the CYA very often. Once a month should be fine -- other users have reported seeing no drop after a month of using bleach (after initial Dichlor usage after a fresh fill).

[greenworks]

Yes, you've got it. You can reduce the tendency for the pH to rise by lowering the TA through a process of aeration and acid addition at low pH (7.0) and then after the TA is lowered maintain a slightly higher pH target of around 7.7. As for bleach, make sure it is unscented and the 6% bleach is either Clorox Regular or off-brand Ultra bleach. You don't need to check the CYA very often. Once a month should be fine -- other users have reported seeing no drop after a month of using bleach (after initial Dichlor usage after a fresh fill).

ok only one more question... I have had the tub full fro nearly 2 weeks and used dichlor twice as recommended can I switch to bleach now I have read many topics but no one has said a time to switch that I saw. Lastly with bleach do I put a certain amount in after each use or a certain amount each week?The amounts are what io am having trouble finding as well.That may have been two possibly three questions

Jason

[chem geek]

Jason,

Are you saying you only added Dichlor twice to your tub over 2 weeks? That's probably way, way too infrequent and your tub is probably not sanitized after a couple of days after application. You didn't say the size of your hot tub, but if it's 350 gallons then it takes about 3 fluid ounces to raise the Free Chlorine (FC) level by 4 ppm and you will likely need to add that every day after you get out of the tub. As for how long to use Dichlor, 2 teaspoons of Dichlor results in that same 4 ppm FC and also increases Cyanuric Acid (CYA) by 3.6 ppm. You should use enough Dichlor to get to around 20 ppm CYA so that would be a total of around 11 teaspoons of Dichlor cumulatively. I don't know how much Dichlor you used in your two applications, but it was probably less than that so you would add more Dichlor (2 teaspoons daily) until the cumulative total is around 11 or more teaspoons. Then you can switch to bleach after that until the next time you refill your tub.

Richard

[greenworks]

Jason,

Are you saying you only added Dichlor twice to your tub over 2 weeks? That's probably way, way too infrequent and your tub is probably not sanitized after a couple of days after application. You didn't say the size of your hot tub, but if it's 350 gallons then it takes about 3 fluid ounces to raise the Free Chlorine (FC) level by 4 ppm and you will likely need to add that every day after you get out of the tub. As for how long to use Dichlor, 2 teaspoons of Dichlor results in that same 4 ppm FC and also increases Cyanuric Acid (CYA) by 3.6 ppm. You should use enough Dichlor to get to around 20 ppm CYA so that would be a total of around 11 teaspoons of Dichlor cumulatively. I don't know how much Dichlor you used in your two applications, but it was probably less than that so you would add more Dichlor (2 teaspoons daily) until the cumulative total is around 11 or more teaspoons. Then you can switch to bleach after that until the next time you refill your tub.

Richard

I have put in 28g 1oz after filling then I put in another 28 g after a week I am not sure how many table spoons that would be the product is instructed to be dispensed by weight not amount and per week, however the measuring device has cups as well and TOTAl I have put in 1/4 cup if that helps the tub is 350 gal I do know the last time I checked (after both dichlor apps) the chlorine it was low 2-3, but it says only to not use the tub when it is above 5.0 ppm. Should I dump in some more? where does a guy get a CYA tester I can only test CL,BR and Ph. If I get a chance tommorrow I will check it and report back with CL & pH results.

Thanks again Richard!

[chem geek]

With Dichlor (dihydrate), roughly speaking 1 ounce of weight is also 1 ounce of volume and is 2 tablespoons or 6 teaspoons. So with each addition of 1 ounce of Dichlor you added about 12 ppm FC which is why you still had some leftover when you next measured, but the FC level was pretty high in the day or two after adding the chlorine. It sounds like you may not be using the tub every day, is that right? As for test kits that test for CYA as well as more accurately test chlorine and other parameters, I suggest the Taylor K-2006 test kit you can get at a good price here or you can get a similar kit, the TF-100, that has 36% more volume of chemicals and is about that much more expensive (so same price per quantity of tests) here.

[greenworks]

With Dichlor (dihydrate), roughly speaking 1 ounce of weight is also 1 ounce of volume and is 2 tablespoons or 6 teaspoons. So with each addition of 1 ounce of Dichlor you added about 12 ppm FC which is why you still had some leftover when you next measured, but the FC level was pretty high in the day or two after adding the chlorine. It sounds like you may not be using the tub every day, is that right? As for test kits that test for CYA as well as more accurately test chlorine and other parameters, I suggest the Taylor K-2006 test kit you can get at a good price here or you can get a similar kit, the TF-100, that has 36% more volume of chemicals and is about that much more expensive (so same price per quantity of tests) here.

So I only have 4 tablespoons in and I need 11 +-. I should add 2 tablespoons each day until I get to 11 then test to check at least 20 ppm of CYA and switch to bleach after each use.How mauch 6% bleach after each use should I use.Why would a company say only put in 2 tablespoons each week if that was way low?

[TinyBubbles]

Hi green, I'm not familiar with the beachcomber carefree line, so I'll just talk about general use of dichlor. You shouldn't be concered with volume of dichlor, but in mainting a good level of sanitizer. Most people who are daily soakers add enough dichlor or bleach after each use to raise their free chlorine level to between 3-5 ppm. This is too kill any nasty buggers that were introduced during soaking. Generally, 24 hours later, there is either no residual chlorine or a very low level. If dichlor is your primary sanitizer, adding it once a week, no matter what the amount, is not going to be sufficient. My tub holds 350 gallons and I add about 3 ounces of bleach after we soak. Use your test strips in the beginning to see how much is needed to get the right free chlorine reading after a soak. Depending on wether or not you have an ozonator, you could need to shock once a week with MPS. I rarely get combined chlorine, so I do it about once every 2 weeks just for the fun of it. I'll have to see if I can find info. online, but my assumption is that the beachcomber carefree system is no relying on dichlor as the primary sanitizer. They are probably saying to add it once a week as a shock or booster for something else.

[TinyBubbles]

ok green, I looked up the carefree system on line. It says you should add carefree boost to maintain a level of 3-5 ppm. It is the regular carefree product that it says to add once a week. So, basically, I would assume that carefree boost is dichlor and the regular carefree product is an mps shock.

[greenworks]

ok fellas I went to add more dichlor after work but before I did I thought I'd check quick Ph 7.5 fc 5ppm+ not sure how high it is higher than I can read on my taylor kit? Now I am totally lost I have 2 oz (4 tablespoons in in 2 weeks and my FC levels are high enough I shouldn't be in the tub? The FC chlorine starts out barely readable after 10 seconds then after 5 minutes is of the map is there a time to read it at my thought was it shouldn't change based on time.I do run a buble wrap cover that sits on top of the water under the regular cover however not sure if that effects the gas exchanges.

Jason

[chem geek]

So I only have 4 tablespoons in and I need 11 +-. I should add 2 tablespoons each day until I get to 11 then test to check at least 20 ppm of CYA and switch to bleach after each use.How mauch 6% bleach after each use should I use.Why would a company say only put in 2 tablespoons each week if that was way low?

The 11 I quoted was teaspoons, not tablespoons. 2 teaspoons is around 4 ppm FC and 11 teaspoons would add around 20 ppm to CYA. Roughly speaking you add around 2 TEASPOONS each day until you get to around 11 (so about 6 days) and then switch to bleach, but this doesn't have to be exact. Just using Dichlor for a week should be fine, then switch to around 3 fluid ounces of bleach per day, assuming you use the tub every day.

If you added 2 tablespoons of Dichlor, then that is the same as 6 teaspoons and would be around 12 ppm FC which is why it is reading off the map. the FC level will drop -- probably by around 4-5 ppm the first day (to 7-8), 3-4 ppm the second day (to 3-5).

[greenworks]

I may have not been clear sorry for the confusion the 4 tablespoons (2 oz) was the total amount since filling 2 per week. so the test today 3 days after my last addition I am still at 6+ppm FC should I go to bleach after each use then.

[chem geek]

I may have not been clear sorry for the confusion the 4 tablespoons (2 oz) was the total amount since filling 2 per week. so the test today 3 days after my last addition I am still at 6+ppm FC should I go to bleach after each use then.

Yes, you can now go to bleach after each use except you don't have to do that until your FC level drops a bit. That is, go ahead and use the tub the way it is now and if the next time you measure the FC level it is low (say, less than 2 ppm), then you can add some bleach and get on a regular program of adding bleach.

You don't have to worry about the FC being high. With the CYA in the water, even 10 ppm FC with 20 ppm CYA is equivalent to only 0.9 ppm FC with no CYA. This is higher than you'd normally want but is still generally lower than found in most indoor pools (another topic I won't get into here -- most indoor pools are over-chlorinated because they do not use CYA). With the jets running and some usage, the FC level should drop fairly quickly. Technically, after a fresh refill and you add Dichlor for the first time, the effective chlorine level is high. It's much lower on the second day, even lower on the third day, etc. until it gets to where we want after about a week. The only way to avoid that initial first week blip would be to add Cyanuric Acid directly or to add Dichlor and aerate but not use the tub until the CYA builds up and the FC drops but that's not really worth it.

Richard