Roger

I am an owner of my first new tub 4 years ago. I have had a few used freebies that I have fixed up in the last 15 years. I have been in the mechanical field (plumbing, piping, boiler, HVAC, architecual metals, insulation) for the last 25 years. But I only vist here for the contraversy. Awww I guess I help once in a while.

Alot of us have been trying for several years Amanda to convince Jim his PR skills need serious improving. But he seems to think everyone else in this world is wrong and he's the only right person. His condencending attitude towards all the other salespeople except himself has been going on to long for him to change. You know what they say and even though Jim is no older than many of us here, you can't teach an old dog new tricks, unless it's a talented dog like me.

I find it very hard to believe,or maybe I shouldn't I guess this would clear it up that you of all people are quoteing Ayn Rand. A very un-American Capitalist. No comprimise on basic principle huh Jim.......boy oh boy." Once our mind is open we will be able to see that there are serveral varieations of just about everything fact" Jewis Johnson 1954 Bronx born

We are all aware of your opinion Jim and I am sorry but I don't see anything more than that in buying a book from you, your opinion. Mines different sorry. I'm with Chas, HP means nothing and I was concerned when I bought my tub that one lousy 3.5 HP pump would not be enough, but guess what I was wrong, it's plenty!

I think a group hug is called for!! ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((group)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

So look at stuff like how long they have been in business. Call a local independent repair guy and get his opinion, or several independent repair guys because they may be tied to a local store. Talk to friends or family that own tubs and get there opinion of the brand they own.

I have been saying this all along. You can't classify opinion as article. On your own payed for web page you are entitled to spew what ever you like but to preach them as "Articles" behond those boundrys is a plain and simple mis truth.

Remeber the information on that web site is written to sell the brand of tubs advertised on that web site. You should also get a second and a third and a forth opinion and gather as much information as possible regarding the "other" ways to filter, build a tub, circulate water, insulate a tub, that are just a good, maybe even better, and more reliable than the method that company has chosen. No one can tell you what's right for you, all we can do is to tell you our opinions as that web site did..and then you will have to determine for yourself which brand is the best for you.

Did they both have the same thickness on the cover? where 80% of the heat loss is. Or once again are we going to ignore the fact that a 2 inch thicker cover relates to approxamitly 50 percent increase in r-factor in the cover. Where they both running the jet pumps for the same amount of time? Your credibility suffers everytime you mention a supposed "independent test" that turns out to be not so independent and is full of information skewwing the results to a particular brands favor.

Well hopfully and this mind you is only if it falls to a balmy -5 and below then we do wear a hat and a tuke is prefered because it is thick wool and provides ample insulation, fits the head tight, covers the ears and it beats 5 baseball caps in layers anyday!!

But what if you put the same thickness cover on the others? Instead of giving the Arctic a 2 inch cover advantage!

Acualy here in Northern Minnesota we prefer one big ole heavy wool shirt over 5 t-shirts anyday!!!!!!!!

Don't ruin it for me Amanda!! Oh and thanks.

Ummm actualy if you knew my boys, they would think the garage wasn't high enough. So they would go from the house which is even closer and almost twice as high!! They are now both grown up 17 almost 18 and 16 almost 17 so cannonballs is far from there mind. Seems the only thing that fits into there heads is hunting, fishing, trucks not cars and girls in that order, I think? Been a little over 4 years now with my GL hot tub and though we don't use it as much as we used to we still enjoy it and it has been trouble free but for a few minor items easiely repaired by me. The access has been perfect and if I had to do it all over again I would do only a couple things different, get a bigger tub, maybe think about a room for it. Seen some fabulous ideas and have helped build some great spaces for tubs and more in the last few years and my head is spinning with ideas. My neighbor converted one of his garages into a hot tub/bar/excersise/entertaining room with the coolest glass roof and tile, yes sir-re.

Yes I do mean that kind of shelf, because you are sliding the hard cover across the top edge of your tub the thermal blanket be it blue bubble type or foam type as I use will be pushed by the hard cover right off. And I only have access to 2 sides of my tub, the other 2 are to high off the ground and surrounded by railing to access. You would have to see a picture to understand. But if you are using a lifter that sets the cover down on the top lip cutting it long to sit on this lip is a good idea for the extra seal.[attachmentid=1]

I only see this tangleble data in it sorry. That if you put a 2 inch thicker cover on an Arctic spa indoors it will out perform a Hot Spring Spa by .09 cents a weekor whatever the dollar figure was. Again here in Northern Minnesota heavier covers are standerd on most brands. I am a consumer like yourself and I could care less I do not like Arctic because of there less than truthfull sales approach. (I am in purchasing) and very few sales pitches sway me.They put themselfs in a class by themselfs when truely they are nothing more than slightly below some top performers IMO. Again if you want tangible data as to why I feel the test is full of holes you will have to find it yourself by looking. I can not show you as you have been blinded by the sales pitch light. You bought an Arctic based on the results of said test and your lenghty investigation, the last thing you want to do is admit that maybe you were blinded by the sales pitch and the tub is truely nothing more than as good as a bunch of others for more money. And noisier than most. I'm not sure where the question is but YES JIM YOU ARE RIGHT. There has never been a legitimate independent study. Took a long time to get this out. I like the new sales pitch Jim "partialy insulated full foam" Cool because the pipes are not insulated in the equipment area on a couple brands you have grouped a whole bunch of brands to include everybody but yours. To make it sound like your Thermopane brand is the only fully insulated even though theres air infiltration in yours also. But you do run a 48 frame motor for 24/7 to make up for the lack of insulation. Or do all your tubs have this 48 frame circulation motor? Or is it just a few models? If it's not all models how is the warm air barrier created during the 20 hours a day filtration is not needed? Just wonderin?

Lets not do this again Rex...it gets tiring. You are allowed your opinion of the test and it's legitimacy. 80 percent of the heat loss is from the top on all tubs and to give one brand a 60 percent advantage in this area and then to claim superiority over other brands because of these test results and not stating it in the test, crocked!! Plain and simple. Nothing more than a sales slight of hand, yes! All brands have upgraded covers available. And in Northern Minnesota it is standered on almost all brands to get an upgrade cover. I can explain it to you again why I feel it is unfair but apperantly the two of us will never agree so what's the point? One question, what would the test results have showed if all the covers were equal on top where 80 percent of the heat loss is? Remember I am not a fan of Hot Springs. Where would the brand that came out on top in the test be then? Speculate for me. Again Rex you are allowed to view these "independent" test results however you feel will help you to make your decision. I on the other hand feel they are nothing more than a sales pitch with some shaded results that have skewed the whole thing to favor the manufacurer that is "paying" for it's independency.

Maybe not a viable option for those of us who use a cover shelf though, or have only access to a couple of sides. But the idea does make alot of sense if it is possible to do with your instalation.

One "independent study" done by Coleman, guess it wasn't so Independent One done by the university of, wait a minute I didn't see any conclusive answers in this one either??? One "independent study" payed for by Arctic, with no clear leader and an unfair 60 percent advantage on the cover. Plus a bunch of other holes in the data reported and a bunch of data not reported??? Now which study would you like us to use? The "Independent" one? I guess we could go to "Jim's" web site and just say, ahh what the heck this guy knows it all after all he wrote all these "articles" and he's a real smart guy, so he must be right. And you know how smart those "engineers" are in them thar Co. Mountains. You are an engineer right Jim? Very unique sales pitch Jimbo. Trying to mask it as anything but.........not working.