spatech (the unreal one)

Its 13 years old so its seen some use but that doesn't mean its a lost cause, I'd dig it out and see. It might be a simple fix, it might not. There is only one way to find out and nothing to lose since you'd have to get it out one way or another and if you get another you'd have to move it in. If you replace it there is no "best" spa but i'd look at Caldera, D1, Hot Spring, Jacuzzi, Marquis and Sundance. Give the fix a try first, everyone is apprehensive toward this kind of fix until they try it.

I'd keep looking, there has to be a better option that Master and I also have no idea what a Sunwave is.

The weather is cold. Its new for you so you're probalby using it a lot. Not all spas are equally insulated.

Look for a wattage spec on the heater. 1kW? 4kW? Are you running 220v or 110v?

Proving a negative is always the hard part and none of us are really trying to do that anyway, we were merely asking where the positive proof is though we really knew the answer. We all understand that the proof needs to come from the claimant though as was discussed they're careful what they actually claim though the salespeople often have their own standards as you have also pointed out on other subjects relative to salespeople (in reality many sales people are great about the claims they make, I'm not tossing them all in the same basket). The good news is no matter how this UV thing works or doesn't, the spa you have is well made from a good spa company and I assume your dealer has been good to you so all that is 98% of the battle. I have no doubt your current water care results will continue, just make sure you always have your bottle of chlorine granules and all chems in a dry covered area, watch your ph/alk, clean your filters regularly and I suspect you'll be fine from here on out.

Because it is a very good sales tool that you can tell has been working to a good degree. Thats why they go with it plus they know it isn't going to be detrimental in any way (and even drives some sales of bulbs) so its not like they're gaining up front but are going to have to deal with the ramifications down the line because they're smart enough to have customer use a standard water care system with it. Anything that drives sales gets played in the spa industry. Its mostly a no harm, no foul type thing until its deemed as some type of great elixir when others see it as not doing much of anything for the consumer and ask where the proof is.

I couldn't get by without the radio. I'm gonna say its as vital as the STP fuel additive you can buy at NAPA that is supposed to "clean" your engine and give you better gas mileage.

You are missing my point. If a company knowingly misinforms the consumer about a part of their system and this system is a vital part of the hot tub there will be repercussions. It then has to be pulled off the market because of these false statements no matter how many austerest they have there could be a class action lawsuit. This I know for a FACT. As far as the company doing test and not publishing them....I have no idea. They put out what they thought was relevant. Go on their website and ask them that question and see what they say. I got a very fast response on my question I asked if any of the tubs were manufactured in the US. As with anything, time will tell and I will still be sitting in crystal clear water with a smile on my face. You have to admit this has been fun and maybe something good will come from it. Hot tub Marketing has always made generic claims. This isn't a paacemaker so all they have to do is use the right wording; proof is overrated for Marketers. Persoanlly I'd need that proof before I just accepted this though its really just harmless markeing fluff. I will still be sitting in crystal clear water myself thanks to my chlorine granules.

Rotate the face of the jet.

But if its a hot springs all the water gets drawn in thru the filters so if its on the suction side it may not be too tough ot get to. I might let the spa leak and see what the final water level is which will point to the level where the leak resides even though it does point to the suction side.

I knew I would get responses like this. Say anything you want..You are right I did talk to only one person that has NOTHING to do with any hot tub company and is not trying to sell me anything. I did talked to a person that knows more about UV systems then any one I have found on the forums. (unless they also work in the field) and he was fine with what the spa companies were saying this system would do again with the right flow rate. You are absolutely correct I didn't have the answer on the flow rate but in his OPINION by the clarity of my water and never seeing any cloudy water the UV was doing what it was designed to do. Hot water with human body waste will cloud up a lot faster then cooler water....his words not mine. I'm not here to sell anything or say any system is better then another. I do know Ford trucks are better then Chev trucks. I'M just tired of people saying that one system is so far superior or one system does nothing but cost you $79 a year with out having any real proof beside what their feeling is. Now if that person worked with the UV system everyday for a living and said the system is just a placebo then I would have some decisions to make. This whole thing was for me and me alone. I posted what I learned for others to take with their own research to help with their decision. I'm not telling anyone to buy the Clear Ray or that it will solve their water problem. It makes no difference what you believe we can all agree if you don't use the chemicals right your water will suck. An absolutely huge thing for me was to have a tub with zero chlorine smell and this is what I have. So I'm happy and really (not to hurt any feelings) is all that matters to me. Neither you nor the person you spoke with can conclude the UV system has ANYTHING to do with your good results with your water care. If it was the only thing you were using then you'd have more of a point. I have never had cloudy water issues and have never had a UV system. Granted I've been at this a long time but I've seen hundreds of people with very good water results that don't have UV system. All of us have one thing in common, use of chlorine in the water care routine. Chlorine is amazing at keeing water clean and clear. Prove to me it doesn't work with hard data. I did my research that helped me understansd more what UV does and doesn't do. The forums have some misinformation and some data backed information. I DO NOT HAVE THE DATA (I did caps to help you ) to prove anything. I wanted to talk to a person who knows more about UV then any of us to find things out. So that is exectly what I did. If you want to take the time and post the place you spoke to and you find something out different then please post it. This is how we all can help people make informed decisions. I do have to agree 100% with you that there really is no hard data saying the Clear Ray works better or as good or does anything as good as other systems. As you say the UV doesn't do anything to help with the water then I can say my tub must have one heck of a great filtration system. And for a rookie I have this chemical thing down perfect. I say get rid of all ozonators and Clear Ray because they are not needed. I have hard proof of that by how good my water is staying with out any help from anything but chemicals and a filter. I will keep trying to find actual data to prove or disprove the UV system. Prove the negative? On the other page you said on several subjects "proove to me it works", same thing here. We shouldn't have to prove it doesn't since the claim on this sytem is that it does. In the end, it came with your spa so use it, it certainly can't hurt and maybe it does help a little but I'd need more proof to believe in it.

I knew I would get responses like this. Say anything you want..You are right I did talk to only one person that has NOTHING to do with any hot tub company and is not trying to sell me anything. I did talked to a person that knows more about UV systems then any one I have found on the forums. (unless they also work in the field) and he was fine with what the spa companies were saying this system would do again with the right flow rate. You are absolutely correct I didn't have the answer on the flow rate but in his OPINION by the clarity of my water and never seeing any cloudy water the UV was doing what it was designed to do. Hot water with human body waste will cloud up a lot faster then cooler water....his words not mine. I'm not here to sell anything or say any system is better then another. I do know Ford trucks are better then Chev trucks. I'M just tired of people saying that one system is so far superior or one system does nothing but cost you $79 a year with out having any real proof beside what their feeling is. Now if that person worked with the UV system everyday for a living and said the system is just a placebo then I would have some decisions to make. This whole thing was for me and me alone. I posted what I learned for others to take with their own research to help with their decision. I'm not telling anyone to buy the Clear Ray or that it will solve their water problem. It makes no difference what you believe we can all agree if you don't use the chemicals right your water will suck. An absolutely huge thing for me was to have a tub with zero chlorine smell and this is what I have. So I'm happy and really (not to hurt any feelings) is all that matters to me. Neither you nor the person you spoke with can conclude the UV system has ANYTHING to do with your good results with your water care. If it was the only thing you were using then you'd have more of a point. I have never had cloudy water issues and have never had a UV system. Granted I've been at this a long time but I've seen hundreds of people with very good water results that don't have UV system. All of us have one thing in common, use of chlorine in the water care routine. Chlorine is amazing at keeing water clean and clear.

And I'd heard the same thing about temperature dependency but I never heard an actual cutoff spec of 95º but that makes sense based on what the other chem expert said about how it works in hot water, well done. I wonder if the effectiveness reduces even further as the temp increases beyond 95º since most people I've known keep their spas somewhere in the 100-103º range. As far as what you are doing, I also add chlorine after each use (same method for a decade plus) and have recommended that method to people on these sites for years because of my experience with excellent water clarity/clenliness despite pretty heavy use (not as heavy nowadays with my 3 sons older and not home much). I don't think you can draw any conclusion as to how the UV system is working for you because many people like myself have equally good results as well without it. Of course a test with it on and then with it off for a period of time in the same spa, same usage... would be interesting. In the end if what you are doing is working for you then thats what matters. Maybe all this is much ado about nothing because even if you change an $80 bulb once a year thats not a big deal to many. Its just that myself, just like you, prefer more than "trust me it works" because I know many people are told that this is a major key to their water maintenance (depending on what each dealer says, I'm sure many don't hard sell it) but to me its the chlorine doing the trick and this is like someone telling me a certain pill will get me in shape and all I have to do is "take this pill every morning, then jog 5 miles and eat only 1500 calories for the day and in no time our product will get you fit as a fiddle".

1) REALLY? An infomercial designed to look like a news interview and looking more fake than a plastic plant? This is the route chosen? I thought those were going out of style. You'd have to be a 12 year old to fall for this and not roll yours eyes at how ludicrous it looks. There are many YouTube videos by spa makers, I've seen good and bad. The good ones don't try to fake out the consumer; they're just there to be informative. This one requires tall rubber boots. 2) The two people in the video looked more robotic than Arnold in the Terminator movies. If I ever have problems sleeping I'll have to put on that video. 3) I love the part where they compared the Maxx to "conventional" hot tubs like these spas are unconventional in any way LOL. All they've done differently is come up with some catch phrases (some already in use by others like "Zone therapy") and pretend to be different. 4) I've never had much of an opinion of Maxx spas either way but this video reminds me of Master spas BS Marketing. Its hard to take Maxx seriously after seeing this. Oh and by the way, if you want any credibility on this site when you are posting you'll skip using terms like "Best" in the future, you’ll get called out every time for doing so. Thanks for making me laugh, I needed that this morning.

"I just wish I could find a reliable source that shows the UV does not work in hot water" Certainly keep it on and I never meant "does not work at all" because I'm sure there is theory and some reality that it does help somewhat, I'm talking about to what degree and would I buy a new bulb. Taking the mirrors off my car will increase my gas mileage for sure, I just wouldn't bother to do it based on how much it will help me. I'm aware you're looking for more than an "IMO", same as on the other site and I'm fine with that. I would never expect/want anyone to take what I say as gospel necessarily, i pass on what i think and what I've expereinced. I don't think I can find if it was Chem-Geek or WaterBear or which other of the "chem experts" on this site that talked more about this subject but if I can find it I'll add the link.

There is a chem expert on one of these 2 main sites whose opinion has been (wish I had bookmarked his post) this UV type system works in water municipalities where the water is a lower temp but in hot water it will do little if anything. I'm not saying it does absolutely ZERO for you but I question whether it does enough for you to even notice let alone warrant a $79 bulb every year but I'd certainly just let it run the first year and decide when its time to change the bulb. You could always unplug it and keep everything constant for a few weeks and see if you notice a difference if you're curious. A good chlorine routine does the trick but from experience with both I think a CD ozonator will do more for you than a UV bulb system and there is no bulb to change but I'm not saying go out and buy one of those either as they help but they're no cure all either and a good one is not cheap. Either one is nice to have if it comes with the spa but I'm not shelling out for a new bulb every year if I think its not doing much of anything for me (all my opinion of course). I'm a skeptic from years of seeing spas where the UV bulb has been out for years and the homeowner never even noticed or the bulb is illuminating but you explain that after about 18 months its not really effective anymore yet they are still on the original bulb that is maybe 4 years old and never noticed a change. BTW, I'm a big proponent of the "add after you exit" routine and think that its the chlorine thats working for you (I assume thats what Spa Boss is).

I've heard this scenario before with 4 or 5 year old floor models so I tend to beleive the story. Just know that 1) they REALLY want to move it, you can be sure of that, 2) You need to negotiate with the attitude that you'll only get it for the right price and I don't think $10,900 is it, 3) It has to have the full manufacturer warranty (get it written on the invoice and/or even call the manufacturer and ask if it makes sense that it will still be intact) and I'm not convinced it will, 4) Skip that $300 UV system and don't pay $250 either if they counter, it won't do much other than to cause you to have to buy a new $100 bulb every 12 to 18 months.

1) I wouldn't necessarily be concerned that it is sitting wound for that long if you can get it in writing that it still comes with the full warranty from the manufacturer (not just an in store warranty, make sure its still the full manufacturer warranty). If its just the store warranty then thats not really the same coverage and very much lowers what the spa is worth. 2) The clearray is fine if it comes already included with the spa but I seriously doubt it does much of anything for you so if you do go this route I would for sure save the $300 despite their story of how great it is. Thats expensiv for a UV system in the first palce and I question whether it does anything other than cause you to buy a new bulb every year or so. 3) If the 2012 floor model is $12,700 then I think $10,900 is too much for a 2008 that has been sitting around even if its covered as if its new. I'm very sure he's anxious to move this out of his store as no one wants a spa that old sitting around so if you're serious I would not hesitate to counter with something like $9000 and expect to meet in the middle but closer to the lower number.

My advice to Canada would be to ban Microban and Master and kill two birds with 1 stone.

Thats different and its not really weird to give you a package price but you can still ask for the price on just the spa with maybe just the lifter which you really do need IMO. When people come here and say their deal is "such and such for $8600" we always assume that doesn't include taxes unless specified otherwise. There is nothing you can do about the taxes so what you are really saying is its all you'd previously stated but for $7800 + tax for the spa package you listed which sounds far better thatn what I thought you were saying but others can chime in.

You always should be ready to negotiate their initial offer. Maybe you should ask them for a price for just the spa wihout the cover lifter (though I think you want one eventually), the steps (you can always buy yourself later online), and ozone and then their best price for those 3 things added. That way you can better evaluate it all and they'll know you are looking for something better thatn their offer.

Realize one thing, even if they seem to indicate thats their best price I've never seen a spa dealer that wasn't willing to budge off their inital best price when the customer made it known they'd only buy if the price got better. At some point they'll say "thats it" but it seems like you're still early in the negotiation process. Don't hesitate to counter offer, seriously. BTW, I like the cover cradle 1 and would pay the upgrade to get it when you're dealing with a big cover as you are. Lastly, Google "spa steps" and you'll find you can get some delivered to your house cheaply.

Because they have to assume you might be that family with 6 people going in so they set it on the high end, pretty normal for manufacturers to do so, just reset it as needed. Go ahead and try two 2-hr settings, if the water stays clear stick with it, jump it up to 3-hr cycles later if you think its needed I'm not sure how well insulated Coast spas are. The best spas out there will be down at that $30 end but if its adding $70 I'm not too shocked and thats not at the really bad end, there are some people who see triple digit adds due to very poorly insulated spas. Its also the first month so its a fresh fill that had to come to temp, its winter, it probably got a lot of use since its new...

I would lower your filter cycles even further down to two 3-hr filter cycles per day and in fact you'll probably be fine with two 2-hr filter cyeles per day.

I'm not up on Maax so I can't comment on pricing or their quality but I'd say do yourself a big favor and skip the stereo! Spa stereos are probably the worst bang for the buck you can get on a spa when you factor in their notorious lack of longevity (there is a reason they always come with only a 1 year warranty)! If that "level one" ozonator is a UV type I'd skip that too, it won't be very effective and requires costly yearly bulb replacement. Whatever you buy will be with you for the next decade plus (hopefully) so choose for the long run, not the short term but then again its your budget, not mine.