spatech (the unreal one)

Brulan, Coleman doesn't have the 100% no-bypass mentioned previously so what exactly are you trying to say when you say Coleman "has 100%"? That is a new, vague term I'm not familiar with.

Those are 4 major spa makers (though I personally prefer the first three). As far as the lounger goes, don't debate that at all until you BOTH wet test it as soooo many times people have decided they want one only to find that it didn't fit them in the water test (or in some people's case, they don't wet test and find this out in their own back yard). I know my wife is 5'2" and there is no way she could use a lounger so if we got such a spa 1/3 of it would be unusable to her so you really want to be sure it's ok for to both of you. It's not just about height either so do wet test that lounger before you decide.

Just out of curiosity, where exactly are you and what are your local options there? Are hot tubs becoming a fairly recognizable item (albeit a luxury item of course) in Europe or do most people still not even know what you're talking about when you say you're going to buy one?

That price is obviously something we can't compare to on this side of the pond so I'd have no idea. However, I will say that the 4 spas you mention are all major brands with good reputations over here.

Well, at least the spas will have a 10 year anniversary as Roger indicated and more to come.

Huh? Is that what non-circ pump spa salesman are saying onwadays?. I almost fell over with that one. A circ pump with a CD ozonator gives you ozone 24/7 and there is no beam of light to blind you, no lazer beam to cut you in half, no radioactivity to cause a mutation and no voodoo curse from it's use.

True, there may be a little bit of savings using the samll circ pump 24/7 versus running the larger pump (typically 2 hrs per day is too low, more like 3-5) but it would be minimal. It's best to call this one a wash as far as energy use. The main reason I prefer the circ pump is to get ozone 24/7.

more like: "It was the best of insulation; it was the worst of insulation."

But that pales in comparison to what the misters give off.

Ture, it started out with some wacked out salesman saying Marquis wasn't closed cell which you corrected but you also added "The water spiders in a Hot Springs making the leak harder to find." which i'd say is a form of "ours is better". I'm not trying to nitpick here but that was what I was referring to and again, I'd be peeved if someone said that about my spas when it wasn't true (though I'm not really representing anyone here, just playing hall monitor).

You were right to set the record straight about the FACT of Marquis having closed cell foam but you probably would have been better off not adding how it was better than Hot Springs foam as that just starts another opinion based thread direction. I'd be defensive also if someone was throwing out baseless claims but you don't want to go down their path either.

I agree, those are two main differences between the Hot Springs/D1 spas and Coleman but why would you point out Coleman's shortcomings?

Leaks should be rare on a well made spa. Furthermore, why in the world would you look to sell the spa just because it is past it's warranty; that's a poor idea in my opinion. I see well made spas out there that are well past 10 yrs and going strong. It's the poorly built spas that are landfill candidates before they ever get to 10 yrs old that are what you want to avoid.

I'd put Hot Springs and D1 at the top but Coleman is fine too. I imagine the D1 is more expensive because you're looking at a higher end model or simply a larger spa than the Hot Springs so I'm not sure if comparing price between them is really relevent (I'm sure the Hot Springs and Coleman have spas at $9k also). Le tthe wet test be your guide.

I'm not a fan of misters because they take the water you're sitting in and send it into the air that you breath and I've seen enough spa water out there to know I don't want to breath any of it (unless it has a separate water source).

1) Yes, you can lower the spa temp to around 80º. 2) Caldera-Marquis-Hot Spring-D1-Sundance are 5 of the best spa makers out there IMO and you'll undoubtedly find a couple of them to do the trick for you after checking them out. 3) No way to answer that, way too open ended of a question. They all sell spas ranging from $3.5k to $10k or more depending on size, options, etc.) As far as basics to include, I would defintiely get steps and a lifter and I highly recommend ozone. 4) Cost to run the spa varies greatly depending on $kw/hr rate, usage, climate, etc. but if you really need a number I'd assume about $20 to $35/month on a well insulated spa (the ones you've named are good at that). Visit all that you've ementioned, get to know the dealer, see who does their service, ask lots of questions and by all means, wet test the spas you like (esecially if you're inclined to get a spa w/lounge).

Both are very good options. Your best bet is to wet test both. BTW, the price on the Serena Bay looks pretty good (is it an '05 or '06) versus what I've seen other post but it never sold anywhere near $17k.

... and always look into whether it is a prorated warranty (few do this but a couple do). Catalina doesn't get too much pub because they don't sell nearly as many spas as those others you hear about on this site. That doesn't necessarily make them better or worse.

Since when did they go with steel framing and have a "lifetime" warranty? Where do you get your info, a magic 8-ball?

A GC Spas rep on another site did admit to that and tried to say it was their way to avoid fraud or some such lame answer. It really is their way to avoid honoring the warranty as the know MANY people won't fill out those warranty cards and send them in. If you buy a GC Spa you should assume YOU will be the repair person. Their appeal is lower prices but they come at a cost so make sure you go in with your eyes open but as long as you know what the deal is ahead of time (not always the case) then it's all fair.

They are porbably best known for selling spas for $4800 that they claim normally sell for $9000 but really always sell for $4800 (ofen through dealers selling from most anywhere including storage units). I've seen some real unhappy customers on these sites but then I've seen a few happy ones also but they usually are the type of people that are do-it-yourselfers because GC Spas has that 24 hr technical support that is really there to try to get you to fix the spa yourself as you might have a tough time getting them to come fix it. Those are the things I've seen over and over, I have no direct experience..

Not if it's a well made spa. The largest spa makers full foam their spas by their choice. They certainly could do otherwise and since they warrant their spas for leaks they must realize that the key is to build them so they don't leak and then you can take advantage of using the foam to insulate it well (plus the foam sure does lock in the plumbing to keep everything in place but that's just an added bonus). As has been said previously, the vast majority of leaks are in the non-foamed equipment compartment so those who know realize the salesman gloom-an-doom stories are just hype. Maybe you should look into all these leaks you keep referencing that you've been having rather than simply making them easier to fix.

Straighten them out Brulan.

I guess partial foam is better than none at all but I'll hold out for a quality full foam spa.

I'm more of a fan of the synthetics just due to how well they hold up but I do think full foam is a great way to go. What this shows you is that opinions vary on the approach to take and it's more important to look at the quality of the product (though I'm not too familiar with Diamondback spas in particular).