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No, cool simply means that the water temperature is more than 20 degrees below set point, which is correct for just starting up. Leave it running for a few hours and see if it heats up. It probably will since you are not reporting a "FLO" error. John

And add to this discussion that both HS and Caldera are owned by the same parent company and many of the parts are interchangeable. This may truly be a decision that comes down to how the tub feels and trust in the dealer. There is nothing to separate these tubs quality-wise, they are both top notch. John

And add to this discussion the fact that plumbing design can have a dramatic impact on the final flow rate and residual power. It does little good to boost the pressure at the pump or the flow rate if the plumbing design is so poor that friction losses are exceptionally high compared to similar tubs. The plumbing cannot just be slapped together with elbows and reductions all over the place. John

I'd recommend a solid concrete pad over small gravel, dirt, etc. I just had a customer last week with a Keys Backyard tub that was about 2 years old and the framing is already coming apart badly as the ground has shifted a bit. Admittedly, your tub is much higher in quality, but a solid base is highly recommended. John

You're welcome Knucklez. Do your research and consider the advice you read on this forum. I would just shy away from generalized bashing with opinions based on psudo-statistics like "everybody that buys a costco tub has problems"..... sure many that come here do, but how many is that in relation to how many they sell?...... get my point? Besides I think most people don't have any desire to get on the internet and talk about how great their hot tub is like we do, particularly if they didn't over pay I'm sure some of the manufacturers are junk as the dealer advocates state, but I like my OC - Calspa just fine. For me the big costco question mark was insulation. I got the calspa made tub and it has plenty of insulation. Other things they do to get the cost down is less lighting and no diverted valves, all things I don't care about, but maybe you do. At least in my tub this is what I observed. I am so glad I did not spend 7k on a tub. I previously had a tub from costco that I returned. It was supposedly made by Sundance/Jacuzzi. It had an internal leak that messed up the inside badly after one month. No problems were evident until the level built up and it started running out (fully sealed abs pan). I called costco and they took care of it 100%. Some have complained that costco did not return their call immediately or that they were put on hold. When I returned my tub I was patient and they took care of it solid. In fact one of the reasons I bought a costco tub AGAIN is they were the ONLY place that I felt I could trust. That reminds me, it's time for my soak. Good luck. Please bear in mind that the pro's on this board, and on other board's, do not engage in generalized bashing nor are our opinions based on pseudo-statistics. As others like Roger have mentioned, this "diary" can have merit once it has accumulated 5 or 6 years of posting. Unfortunately, many folks make purchase decisions based on cost or on short term ownership stories such as this one, not on long term ownership goals. Frankly, as an independent service company, it warms my heart and lines my pockets having this flood of cheaply made tubs come on the market. Why? Because no one will go through the hassle to return a tub to Costco (or any other big box merchant) for the sake of a repair that will cost them a few hundred dollars. I have customers who routinely pay for motor replacements or heater replacements because they had a failure due to low cost, crappy components. And there are a LOT of these types of repairs with these tubs specifically because they use low quality, cheap motors and heaters. Ask any pro on this board about how many plain steel heater elements with tiny o-rings that seal the bulkhead area of the heater tube that he's had to replace on these cheap tubs and he'll probably tell you it is one of his bread-and-butter repairs. It is for me. How many of these cheap heaters have failed due to galvanic corrosion at the bulkhead as compared to failures in a quality heater. I've been in the hot tub, sauna and pool heater repair business for 25 years, having started in the fall of 1984. I've seen this industry change a lot over the years, with the move to big-box store retailing having the most deleterious effect on quality, as the merchants squeeze the manufacturers for more and more price drops. I call it the Wal-Mart effect. And the manufacturers have responded in the only way they can with ever cheaper components and construction methods. For someone like myself who will only own quality, it has been very sad to watch, but as a result, I also have no sympathy for the customer as they moan about the cost of repair. For it is ultimately the consumer who is responsible for this state of affairs. The merchants and manufacturers know the buying public better than the buying public knows themselves. For now, the average consumer is quite willing to convince themselves that somehow these big-box sold tubs are nearly as good in quality as some of the brands that are generally considered better by the pro's. Even in the face of multiple pro's on this board cautioning otherwise, many folks (yourself included) are willing to dismiss the collective experiences of the pro's as bashing. So be it. Meanwhile, I'll continue to make my money. For the record, I have a 1989 Jacuzzi Vectra II that is outdoors and has been in continuous operation for 20 years. In that time, I have had one motor failure (at 7 years), a heater element went open (16 years) and I've replaced the flow switch a couple of times. That's it. I fully expect this tub to last another 20 years. Yes, quality tubs can last that long. It is amazing just how inexpensive a quality tub actually is when amortized over the life of the tub. Also for the record, I do not sell tubs and I never have sold tubs. I only fix them. I work for some factories as a direct warranty servicer and as an independent for numerous dealers in my area, so I have no axe to grind regarding any specific brand. If anything, my advice here, if followed by everyone, would probably result in less work for me. I guess I'm lucky that no one wants to listen to me!!! So, let's compare service histories when your tub hits 20 years of age. John

If you have a PC board, it is on the board. If you do not have a PC board, it is a separate relay in the box. John

Someone needs to do proper ground fault testing with a high quality megohmmeter. Are you equipped with an ozonator? John

If you are absolutely certain that the heater is actually working, then this is most likely a defective thermostat. John

Minor delamination. It's not broken open, so nothing to worry about. John

Have you checked for voltage and amperage draw at the heater? If you have full voltage, I'd suspect a stuck relay. If you don't, check your filtration times. If neither of these solves your problem, check the heater for a ground fault. John

It is an excellent, high-end Sundance tub. Top notch components and construction, as you would expect from any high-end Sundance. John

The Jacuzzi and Sundance tubs are essentially the same. There are some minor differences (mainly the heaters and whether it has a blower or not).

http://www.spadepot.com/spacyclopedia/wiri...CFQOIFQodwHahWw This site looks dumb down, but it is spot on for the do it yourself folks. But it says they used a 1.00" conduit for a 4-wire. Oversized for easy pull. What you are looking for is derating. If you google it, you will find it. It will tell you how many wires you can bunch together before you have to go to bigger wires. Thus, the hole size. Most electrical codes also specify what is referred to as a conduit fill percentage and it refers to how much space the conductors can take up within the conduit. Generally speaking, as the number of conductors and their ampacity go up, the allowable fill percentage goes down. The purpose of this rule is to prevent overheating within the conduit. The single largest mistake that the typical DIY'er (and some of the generic web site advice) makes regarding conduit is that any size conduit is permissible if you can actually get the conductors to squeeze into it. Nothing could be further from the truth, especially with the current levels we are dealing with in the typical hot tub installation. John

I noticed your moniker and figured you are located north of Boston. I am not a shill for Arctic, but have to say they generally make a decent tub. From your description, it sounds more like a problem with the servicer and that repairs have not been completed properly. Please correct me if I have misinterpreted. The North Shore area has a problem with servicers. There are no quality servicers that I am aware of. I understand that the current dealer is covering a huge amount of territory and I have heard some rumblings about the quality and speed of service. I have worked on a few Arctic's in my area where there was either a question of warranty status or the customer was sick of waiting and paid me. I don't know if any of my invoices were submitted to Arctic for reimbursement. It's not like there would be many, as the number of Arctic's in my area is limited. I don't believe they ever had a South Shore dealer. Normally, in cases like this, I'd suggest getting one of the very ccompetent independent servicers. There are excellent independent's servicing central Mass, RI and southeastern Mass. Unfortunately, I do not know anyone on the North Shore that I would be comfortable recommending either to you or the factory. John

oh, it's a 5hp 230v, ultrajet pump OK, then you do not have what we call a circ pump. I get the picture now. If the pump seals you changed out were really bad, you've probably got a bad bearing and/or other motor problems causing a drag. You can do a capacitance test on the caps, but I suspect you'll really have to replace the motor. John

It would be really helpful to know what make/model/year tub you have and info from the circ pump plate. However, some common things to check include debris in the impeller, corrosion and a bad capacitor. At this point, I can't tell if you have a small Laing circ pump or one of the 48 frame circ pumps, so that's the best I can do for now. John

They have a new, smaller circ pump now. The part number escapes me for the moment. John

I just found this in a 2009 CEC code update concerning rule 14-104: (Note: Rule 14-104 requires that the rating of the overcurrent device not exceed the allowable ampacity of the conductors): 2009 CEC Essentials - Issue 1, Rev. 0 If this is correct, it proves my point. I didn't even look up the other rule yet. John

This tells us nothing as there is an asterisk beside that table and it refers the reader to two rules which you have not cited, so we don't know the context of this table in Canadian code, nor do I care to spend the money to purchase the Canadian code. My US and Mass code purchases are expensive enough, thank you. Is this table even applicable to Canadian hot tubs? Or is it only applicable to industrial motors? Listen, a number of hot tub pro's have rendered opinions here. I think just about all of us have strongly suggested that you not skimp. If you want to skimp, go right ahead. I doubt you'll convince any of us that this would be prudent, even if the Canadian code allows it. My personal opinion is that anyone who protects a conductor with a breaker having a higher rating is asking for trouble. Furthermore, you have still not addressed your de-rating factors. You are starting with a 55 amp conductor. If it de-rates to something like 45 amps in your installation, you end up being below what this table supposedly authorizes. John

It sure sounds like a circulation issue. You are on the right track though. Check the filters first. John

So do the calculation from this rule in section 28 and see if you qualify. I am somewhat suspect on the advice offered here because the OP states that "Most inspectors will allow it". Maybe the OP was just being somewhat loose with his words. On the other hand, maybe he's just used to doing as cheap a job as possible, but sneaks it past "most" inspectors. I stand by my last suggestion, which is to talk directly to your AHJ Frankly, you seem bent on doing a marginal installation. It's your tub. Good luck. For the record though, I triple checked the rating of this wire you are using under the Canadian electric code. It plainly has a maximum ampacity of 55 amps at ambient temps below 86 degrees F (30 C). Now ask yourself, are there times where this wire will be subject to higher temps? Say, due to summer time heat waves? How about within the equipment cabinet itself? If so, the NMWU will be severely derated (60 C wire takes a larger derating hit than 75 C or 90 C conductors) and will not even support 55 amps. Frankly, I don't understand the obsession to use marginal conductors when any of the myriad of available 90 C conductors will give you a wide margin of safety. Remember, the electric code represents a set of MINIMUM standards. My position is that it is not prudent to just barely get by on a marginal installation when you have a product like this that mixes people, water and electricity. If anything, this is the time to add an additional margin of safety. John

I interpreted post #6 as referring to the main electrical run from the house to the nearby disconnect. It was my understanding that this gentleman has not wired up a tub yet, so the final few feet are not in place yet. Therefore, I assumed this discussion was concerning the main run only. John Now we all know what happens when we assume things!!! So true. John

As I said, I don't know Canadian code, so the use of bare copper ground conductors may be perfectly permissible. Here in the USA, the requirement for insulated ground conductors goes back to at least the 2005 NEC. I checked a couple of Canadian electrician's forums and there seems to be quite a bit of confusion surrounding this issue and the requirements of the CEC. I was able to confirm that, per the CEC, #6 NMWU is a 60 C rated conductor with a maximum ampacity of 55 amps prior to derating. This confirms the 55 amp max ampacity that Quantum posted in response #6 above. I am flabbergasted that any electrician would advocate protecting a conductor with a breaker rated at a higher ampacity than the conductor itself. This flies in the face of common sense, not to mention the purpose of the code. On another note, I was able to find out that NMWU is similar to what we refer to as UF here in the USA, though the conductors are not protected quite as well as UF. Here is an interesting link that I found. Read the complete thread. It suggests that using NMWU for an OUTDOOR hot tub in Canada may be illegal. This particular discussion occurred 5 months ago, so the info should still be valid. If true, you've been getting bad advice from your electrician's. I'd go so far as to suggest that you talk to your local AHJ to clear this up. http://forum.doityourself.com/electrical-c...0-6-3-wire.html John

I interpreted post #6 as referring to the main electrical run from the house to the nearby disconnect. It was my understanding that this gentleman has not wired up a tub yet, so the final few feet are not in place yet. Therefore, I assumed this discussion was concerning the main run only. John

An opinion here depends on which models you are comparing. If you are comparing one of the high end Sundance tubs to the LA Spas line, I'd say the Sundance wins hands down. However, the higher end LA's compare well to the lower end of the Sundance line. The circ pumps, heater assemblies, flow switches and pumps are made by the same subcontractors for both manufacturers. If there is one component of the LA that I don't like, it's the filter. Go look at every other tub manufacturers filters, then look at the LA and you'll see what I mean. It's nothing more than an oversized sock. They claim this makes it easy to wash, but I've seen too many where debris gets around and clogs the circ pump if you do not get the sock back on perfectly. John