JerimiahR

Contact Watkins Manufacturing Tech Support. I'm sure they'll be more than willing to help you through any of your repairs. They've been very, very good to us as a Hot Spring dealer. Watkins Manufacturing 1-800-999-4688

Well you certainly know what my response would be between the two. The Grandee is definitely the better option in my mind. But you've read my comments on that in other posts.

@RuBaDuB: I wish your energy efficiency theory were the truth. It would save a lot of folks money, and reduce our carbon footprint in this country. Our experience has been through metering spas, as well as getting customer feedback on energy costs. It's unfortunately not a difference of $20 a month versus $25 a month. More often than not, it's a difference of $20 a month versus $50 a month (or more in some cases). Now of course this is based on the cold climate we have in Montana. In another state where it's nice and warm this wouldn't be as big a difference perhaps. @Waterboy: Keep in mind one very large thing. I make absolutely not a single penny if anyone on this forum purchases a hot tub from their local Hot Spring dealer. I'm not here to make money. I'm here to give my input to folks and help them make an educated buying decision. And, because I do work with Hot Spring hot tubs on a daily basis, I've gotten to know them pretty well. And from my experience, nothing else out there even compares to them as far as over all quality, customer happiness, and energy savings is concerned. Not to mention the profound level of customer & dealer support the Hot Spring manufacturer provides. With how well Hot Spring treats it's customers and dealers (who are customers too are they not?), how can I not try to support them as a company? Any manufacturer that supports their customers, dealers, and product as well as they do, and makes such a great quality product, deserves to have fans who talk them up. Comparing me to the ShamWOW guy, or even the OxyClean guy as you did through your image, is kind of childish. Don't you think? The OP (Original Poster) didn't come here to watch opponents bash one another, they came here to ask questions and receive opinions about what he/she should purchase. Rather than make fun of each other, and bash our competitors, let's stick to actually trying to help folks out.

I'm sure some folks here have experience with in ground spas. Typically the " in ground" type spa will have its equipment installed in a separate location. This could require building a small structure to house the pumps and heating system, and require plumbing to be run between the spa shell and the equipment shelter. This kind of project tends to be quite a bit more expensive than a "portable spa". So there's that to consider if budget is a concern to you at all. Although I don't deal specifically with in ground spas, I've had builders install our portable hot tubs into concrete vaults in the ground, and build decks around them to simulate the built in appearance that many customers enjoy. Often times, customers find this option to be less expensive, more reliable, and more enjoyable. Portable Spas are just less expensive to purchase, install, and often can be more energy efficient. So there's a definite financial savings there. My experience has been (and with feedback from property management companies in our area) that the reliability on a portable hot tub just seems to be a little better. Not to mention portable spas are usually just easier to maintain (both for water, and equipment/filters). Also, portable hot tubs tend to have better molded seats, and more options for jets and such, than do many custom in ground hot tub shells. So if all you want is hot water and a couple jets, the in ground can be an absolutely good experience. But if you're also looking for some of the most comfortable seating molds, and lots of great jets for massage, portable is probably the way to go. One thing we've found when people are considering putting a spa into the ground, is really about the issue you're talking about. Our experience has been that many folks find it easier to get in and out of the spa if it is only half way sunken in. Part of the spa can be recessed down into a deck for instance, and about 15" to 18" exposed above. This seems to give people the advantage of being able to step into and out of their spa equally. Rather than stepping down into a hole in the deck, and them climbing out of that hole when they're done soaking. So if you're concerned about balancing issues, you might consider going with a portable spa, and building a deck around it that only covers about half the spa.

LOL Having lived in Phoenix and Tucson a long time myself, I can understand where your concern with things being made in Mexico may come from. Some Arizonans have issue with such things from my experience. However, I haven't seen this to be an issue so far as a dealer. Not to mention, if any spa is going to be made in Mexico, a Watkins Manufacturing product is a pretty darn safe bet. I've toured their Vista, California factory and was very impressed. They tell me their facility in Mexico is actually the most modern of the two. The nice thing about Watkins (Hot Spring) though, is the fact that they are a part of Masco Corporation (who makes Delta Faucets, Craftmaid Cabinetry, Behr Paints, etc). So they have a very solid backing, and as part of a fortune 500 company they are more so in the public eye. So there's much better likelihood of their facilities being up to snuff. Anyhow, we've never had problems with them here in Montana. So unless you're just set against something made in Mexico, there's nothing wrong with the Limelight brand.

For me there's absolutely no question which way to go. The Hot Spring options are the better choice as far as almost every feature/function is concerned in my mind. Better energy efficiency, reliability, etc. Considering the price is basically equal between the two, the Hot Spring will actually cost you quite a bit less due to it's superior energy efficiency. Rather than get into a big storm here on the forums, I'd go visit your Hot Spring dealer and ask them to compare their Vista/Grandee models to the Arctic Summit. Ask them why Hot Spring would be better. And better yet, rather than taking the salesman's word for it, do some online research. In our area, we find that the folks who do a lot of online research, always end up buying a Hot Spring over all of our competitive brands (Arctic included). There's a whole slew of things that are different about Hot Spring Spas that have made them extremely popular up here in Montana. Even little things like Hot Spring's use of a heat shroud for their jet pumps. Pushing warm air into your jets instead of cold air. One single idea, but it has a good affect on water temperature and heating efficiency. Lots of little things like that, which add up into an overall big deal.

It's not even an issue of horsepower when it comes down to it. If you have the opportunity, see if you can sit in the spa. When it comes down to it, Horsepower, Gallons Per Minute, etc etc.... are ALL about how it feels. Do the jets feel good to YOU? That's all any of that marketing jumbo means. I've seen some spas, with bigger pumps, yet the jets don't feel as strong as another spa with "less horsepower".

Hi there Kathy! We picked up the Limelight line of spas here in Montana, and have sold them since release. This last December we had some -20F nights, and I haven't had any complaints from owners. I wouldn't be to worried about it. Reality is, every hot tub will technically be less efficient as the temperature drops. However, those Limelight spas are pretty solid, especially since they use the 24/7 circulation pump. Cuts down on your energy bill quite a bit. If you like the Limelight Flair, I'd say go for it! It's a great spa (not to mention great looking!)

If I understand the question, you're looking at buying a new spa, and wanting feedback on headrests/pillows? I think it's good that you're looking at the little creature comforts, but personally I think there's a ton more things to consider from brand to brand. Ultimately, comfort is a huge factor obviously. And sometimes the positioning, and design of a pillow can give you some insights as to the research and development a company may or may not put into their spa designs. But I wouldn't push someone toward a specific brand just because of pillows. To solve that problem though, talk to your local dealers and ask them why their spa is better for you than some others. Figure out which spa models or brands appeal to you the most, and then sit in them. Then decide which spa is more comfortable, with or without pillows. If you're looking at new spas, I'd obviously suggest your local Hot Spring dealer, since I'm very partial to Hot Spring. However, they redesigned the pillows on their spas last year, and I find that they are very comfortable.

Is this "H20 Spas", or "Pilates H20"? Either way, I'd be looking for a dealer that sells a higher end spas. They'll cost you more money, but frankly through much better energy efficiency, and better quality parts, it'll actually save you money over the years you'll own the spa. We've got a pretty large customer base here where we sell Hot Spring, and find that folks who buy the less expensive spas from small manufacturers aren't as happy with those. Not to say you'd hate an H20 Spa, but generally that's the feedback I get from folks. Hot Spring & Sundance spas for example, are pretty high quality spas.

I'm going to guess your heater has probably failed. It is somewhat common for them to fail when a customer refills the spa. If it was nearing it's end (for whatever reason) they commonly die at the refill point, because they are put under longer/higher stress loads when heating water from hose temperature. In other words, it's on a longer period and finally just kicks the bucket. The fact that the "Heater On" LED is on, is a good thing. That means the spa's circuitry is trying to heat the spa. As said above, it's either your heater, or the heater relay board. If you get into the black box inside your spa (the IQ 2020 box) there will likely be two circuit boards. One larger one, and one smaller. If the smaller circuit board looks burned (blackened) then it's definitely bad. If it looks fine (usually green circuit board) then it could be the heater. As Dan.The.Spa.Man said though, you can use a volt meter to test continuity and see if the heater is actually drawing voltage/amperage.

If you're talking about a 1991 Hot Spring, and it is setup for 110v, you cannot convert it to 220v without replacing ALL the electrical parts internally. Back then the spas were either 110v, or 220v. Now days, the newer spas are controlled by computer/circuit boards, and are convertible with some jumper changes. Back then, it was one, or the other. I wouldn't recommend trying to alter things. The heating element for the old 110v Classic isn't to expensive though if you do it yourself. Here is a picture of a 1995 Hot Spring Classic I found through Google. Should give you an idea of what it looks like.

Definitely go for the 2007 Vanguard before they sell that. That's an AWESOME deal frankly. As a Hot Spring Dealer, I sell the 2009 Vanguard for over $10,000. I really don't think we'd ever price a 2007 Vanguard for that little. Grab that deal while it's there, especially if your local dealer will stand behind it for 2 years. Hot Spring is a very reputable, long standing, and energy efficient spa manufacturer. The local hot tub company you mentioned probably doesn't compare to the Hot Spring in many ways. I won't go into all the difference you'd likely see, since that would create a big list and simply cause a storm on the forums.

Generally, this could be a number of things. Could be that you have a bad breaker, that isn't handling the load very well and is tripping off. Could be that the breaker (and the accompanying wire) isn't rated to handle the amount of amperage your jet pump(s) is trying to draw. You'll probably need to get more information to get help for this. Such as, what size breaker you're using, and what amp draw your jet pump is rated at. This could either be an issue for your spa dealer, or a qualified electrician depending on what's going on.

This probably has nothing to do with this particular company, however I had a customer in my store a couple months ago having all kinds of trouble with a hot tub he bought through eBay. He had no idea of the brand, said he'd had 9 different phone numbers (there's a flag) for the company, and all nine had been disconnected. We can't even figure out what filter he needs for his spa, because he threw out the old one, and the spa seems to use a removable filter well (similar to those used in pools). He's had other mechanical problems with the spa as well, and simply cannot get the parts he's needed. Generally speaking, I always suggest people be wary of anything they purchase online. Always make sure you're going through a well known, reputable business when purchasing anything online. Otherwise, one can have a very difficult time obtaining support or service later. Of course, eBay is one of those sites that should always come with a "Buyer Beware" flag. Sometimes you're dealing with a legit company, and other times it's just another person with an item to sell.

Couple of ideas come to mind after reading what you've tried so far. Kudos by the way on the troubleshooting so far. On your Envoy, there should be a couple of control knobs beside your seat (smaller ones). One controls air pressure for your neck jets, and the other controls air pressure to the moto massage. You might check to see if adjusting those does anything to help the problem. The Moto-Massage relies somewhat on the air pressure (combined with water) to cause it to flip up and down. Without the air, sometimes water movement alone isn't quite enough. You should see a difference in the water coming out of the Moto-Massage when you make this adjustment (water rippling versus 'white water' because air bubbles rushing out). If this knob makes no changes, there is a possibility the air control valve isn't working properly, and therefore isn't supplying the needed air to the jet. Also, if you unscrew and remove the back rest, take a look at the links on the "spinal cord" of the moto-massage jet. Make sure none of them are obviously cracked, separated, etc. If one of these isn't connected properly, the unit doesn't flex properly and may stick in place or not move well. Since you bought the spa used it sounds like, I'm hoping it's just the Moto-Massage itself, since buying that is cheaper than having a valve replaced by your local dealer. Plus, the Moto-Massage is pretty simple to replace yourself. EDIT: Always, by the way. To help maintain over all jet pressure and performance, it's not a bad idea to run some Spa System Flush or some other plumbing purge product every now and again to make sure you clean any build up out of your jet lines. We do this on all the spas we take in on trades as part of our refurbishment process before we sell them to someone else. And I recommend doing it if you buy a spa from someone else. It's just nice to clean out the plumbing and make sure all flows through well.

A lot of this depends on how much MPS you're having to use. The particular brand of MPS we sell, shows as having a pH of 2.3. So this could very well be attributed to your low pH issues. Of course with a hot tub, there are many other variables that affect your water chemistry. So it's not necessarily an open and closed case that MPS itself is the problem. Bleach on the other hand, should have a pH of about 12.6 from what I can tell.

CalHypo is not a great idea in a hot tub. It is generally the cheapest form of Chlorine, but is not a good idea. You'll actually be increasing your Calcium Hardness every time you add it to your spa. Plus, I believe the pH of Calcium Hypo is like 11+. So you'll find that your pH will be pretty high if you're using much CalHypo. As a general rule, the only 'safe' version of Chlorine to use in a hot tub is "Sodium Dichlor". Most manufacturers would not like the idea of your using any other form of Chlorine. If you truly added 0.5lbs of any form of Chlorine to your spa, and it's dropped down to 2ppm in an hour, you must have a pretty serious bacteria/biofilm problem. That's some extreme chlorine demand. Another possibility however, would be an extreme level of chlorine/bromine. If you actually have a very high level of bromine, it can bleach your test strip indicating a false "0" reading. Generally if this is the case, you can smell the presence of the bromine or chlorine. (But, if you can test a residual, and then zero later, this is likely not the case). Vince22: My initial thought from your first post however, was toward Ozone. Does your spa have an ozone system? Ozone will cause the depletion of chlorine. In your case, Bromine has a chlorine content to it which activates the Sodium Bromide. I don't see a lot of luck using bromine tablets in a floater with ozone, as most of my customers seem to find that it disolves to slowly to keep up with the ozone depleting it. As a general rule, I really don't care for floaters in hot tubs. I feel it's easier to simply use granular bromine or Dichlor.

Honestly don't have any experience with Bluewater Spas. Do not believe they'd be listed as one of the large hot tub manufacturers. However, based on this tidbit on their website: I'm guessing it'll probably use quite a bit of energy. That's a lot of jets to be powered, even by 3 jet pumps. Either it won't have very strong jet pressure, or it's got some massive pumps in it, meaning it'll use quite a bit of electricity. As far as whether it'll hold up in your Ontario winters, the best thing you can do is try to determine how much insulation is in this spa. Regardless of brand and mechanics, insulation is probably the biggest step toward energy efficiency in a cold climate. Little insulation means it'll be heating all the time. Heavy insulation means less heating. Heating is a big part of energy consumption on a spa like that.

As long as we're on the energy efficiency bandwagon, I'd strongly suggest you find your local Hot Spring Spa dealer. Not possible to find anything more efficient. In fact, Hot Spring (Watkins Manufacturing) helped the California Energy Commission design their ratings process for hot tubs. Here in Bozeman, Montana we're accustomed to pretty cold winters. In fact December of 2008 we had a couple weeks at -20F. We've sold the Hot Spring brand since approximately 1982 (been in business since 1979). Yet to find any other brand come through town that can compete on energy efficiency. We've had Bull Frog, Marquis, Arctic, Dimension One, Coleman, Jacuzzi, and other dealers come and go. If you like the size and layout of that Marquis Reward spa, take a look at the Hot Spring Sovereign. It's an extremely popular model, and here in Montana, we see monthly energy bills on average of $22/month or less (based on $0.10/kWh). Not to mention Hot Spring is the absolute easiest, non-programmable, and silent running spa in the industry. Worth taking a look, at the very least. If you view that Excel file provided above, the one from the CEC, you'll find that the Hot Spring models show an R-Value estimate of 25. Pretty darn close to the 28 Arctic claims. Keep in mind, the Hot Spring Spas mechanically operate in a very different manner than the Arctic spas (or any other). Rather than using the large jet pump to circulate water when it heats or filters, the Hot Spring Spa models use a very small circulation pump (new models this pump is rated at approx 40watts). This filters 24/7 (requires no filter programming), and also feeds water to the heater. This uses quite a bit less energy, and saves on a lot of wear and tear on your jet pump since it isn't turning on and off several times a day. You'll never hear a Hot Spring turn itself on and off like other spas. So if you plan to put this outside a bedroom window, this is especially nice. EDIT: If you want to compare a spa that's nearly exactly the same size as the Marquis Reward, check out the Tiger River Caspian (also a Hot Spring brand). This model is 84 x 84 x 36". It's usually around the same price point as the Sovereign, but without a lounge seat.

This kind of depends. Generally, we like to see about 100-200ppm of Calcium Hardness for the typical Chlorine based system in a hot tub. If your "hard water" is already in that range, then I'd just use it. If your water is much harder than that, you might consider filling with soft water and then adding a calcium hardness increasing product. This will allow you to elevate your calcium hardness to the desired levels. Over all, if you can balance you pH, Alkalinity, and Calcium Hardness levels all into the ideal ranges, you'll have a more comfortable soak, and your equipment should last as long as possible.

I'd recommend running some flush through it, such as rosevillenewbie's recommendation. We sell "Spa System Flush" here. It works very, very well. Pour some into the hot tub, run your jets 15-30 minutes, drain & rinse. You'll be surprised how much it cleans out of the plumbing and such. VERY effective stuff. New filters are always a great idea too. As far as cleaning the surfaces of the spa, I like to use simple products like Vinegar. It's very cheap, deodorizes naturally, cleans hard water deposits, and won't hurt the spa or the water in it should any vinegar be left behind. Course, I use Vinegar for ALL my cleaning needs at home.

It's actually best to turn it off as you have been doing. You'll get better circulation with that water feature off. Turn that water feature on all the way sometime, and watch the amount of ozone bubbles you get coming out of the bottom of the spa. Then turn that thing off. You'll see a change in water flow from the bottom there. The idea is to allow the warm water to enter from the bottom, and then to be pulled back in through the filter area (top). This will create better overall circulation than all surface movement. Plus, some argue it may save on the wear n tear on the circulation pump to leave the little waterfall off.

Hottublady and DanTheSpaMan are both correct. Hot Spring spas prior to 2007 that had the UT1, UT2, UT3, UT4 settings should go up to approximately 107.5F. Switching to 220V is beneficial, but does not allow higher temperatures. 220V simply allows the spa to heat MUCH faster. On a Jetsetter which is powered 110V the heater runs at 1.5KW (1500Watts). When powered 220V the heater runs at 6KW (6000Watts). It should heat up four times as fast. The other benefit to being wired 220V, is that the spa can heat while your jets are running (it can't do this 110V). As DanTheSpaMan indicated, if you're using an inexpensive floating thermometer, I wouldn't trust it. However, if your spa truly isn't heating higher than 103F, there's a possibility you may need to replace the thermostat in the spa. Most of my customers tell me they use their spas at 102F and can't handle much warmer than that. So unless you really prefer it hotter, you may have nothing to truly worry about.

Pictures would probably help more. If you're half way adventurous, I'd suggest you remove the service door on the spa. There will typically be a placard or sticker inside that will give the manufacturer's name, model, serial number, etc. Most big manufacturers also put their brand name on the controls (where jet buttons are).