Hillbilly Hot Tub

Yes you are understanding quite well. Ozone also sanitizes, but has no long term effect so it can not be considered a sanitizer. It kills stuff when it is running and for a short time after. If you look at the new thread, chem geek is back....he has a section on Nature 2 and CYA explained very well. Your first step would be to see what the CYA is as you go along. IMO your tub is fine and sanitized quite well. Everyhting is working for you and you do not seem to have any issues. Most people that use this recipe for Nature 2 do not have issues, but this system is not for everyone.

For question #1, back through the threads there is a formula to figure out the chlorine per tbs per 100 gallons, I will have to search for it, I can not remember off the top of my head. #2 Ozone is a powerful oxidizer that reacts very fast to kill microorganisms, and it is a natural purifier. Howevere ozone is not classified as a disinfectant because it has no risidual effect, it does not remain in the water to continue sanitizing for extended periods of time. It helps keep the amount of other chemicals needed down. Nature 2 is a mineral based sanitizer. The minerals in it kill germs in the water. The di-chlor added weekly is to keep a very low risdual of chlorine in the water to supplement the N2. So yes, the N2 is taking away the daily addition of chlorine, it works with the low dose of chlorine you are using, MPS is also an oxidizer. These chemicals work very well with each other, they work as a team. IMO, If you are having no issues with your tub, stay with it. It sounds like you have a system that is working for you and your spa use.

Are you in an area that freezes? If the spot you want to put the tub is wet and your are in an area that freezes, this could casue issues if you just set it on limestone. Even a small wood deck raised just a few inches off the ground would help keep it out of the mud/wet area and no issues from "frost heaves" in the winter, or do as you stated above with sand etc. I would also wait till it is delivered for the landscaping part. It may get dug up/damaged when they are delivering the tub, plus having the tub sitting there may change how you want to landscape the area after seeing it.

First, water does vary from area to area and spa use does play a roll in water maintenance so different methods are called for. Much is talked about in the water chemistry forum. To answer your question, Sodium di-chlor is more widley used in hot tubs. It is closer to PH neutral so reccommended by spa manufactures. It will raise you CYA levels over time. If you are doing water changes frequently enough it should not effect you. Some people have issues with it, and if it gets to high it will make it so the chlorine does not work as well. Calcium hypochlorite adds calcium to the tub each time you use it and is very high on the PH scale. This can cause issues, if you have hard water to start with and don't adjust the PH, you will have a terrible scale issue. Many manufactures will void the warrenty if this is used because of those issues. We would suggest that you do not use "roll"/fiberglass" insulation in the tub. No manufacture uses this becasue it is not the right kind of insulation. It will get wet and be worthless and attract all kinds of bugs and critters. Use a foil backed homesote(sp?) or something that will tolerate a damp/wet envirornment. Clearwater spas R value is 20 using a 1 1/2 inch piece of this foil homesote on walls and floor. I don't know about others, there are very specific tests they have to do to be able to publish actual R Values. There are many others issues related to a costco/ major brand tub, but I am sure you have read them. If you are happy with your tub that is what matters. Just don't knock the dealers, we are not out to rip people off. If you add the cost of all these little things you have to do to make it the same as a big brand, the cost of the labor to do it, the better warrenty and service, you can see where the couple of thousand you saved comes from. I think thats all that the people in the forum are trying to tell you.

Have you contacted Master Spa? They may be able to give you a name of service techs in your area.

Does the cord you got from the dealer have a transformer on one end that converts the electricity to 12 volts regulated supply?

We tried Eco one and we had a soup in 4 days...what a mess. I would never suggest it. I even tried to call the company to see what we had done wrong. Bromine with a floater or Nature 2. Both would work well. Nature 2 is a shock after each each, and when you leave I would give it a shock of chlorine. The PH usually stays pretty good with Nature 2 over extended periods. Bromine is simple also. Fill the floater before you leave, I would also shock. Only concerns with bromine would be that over 3 weeks, the tablets would all be gone and you would have a period of no bromine and have to get the risidual back up before use, and the PH may drop over that period. Check them both out and see what you think would work well for you.

Swimsuits are a huge factor, next time ask them to rinse them out first before they use the tub. Chidren and teens are also a big factor. Small kids do not get all the soap off their bodies/hair when taking a bath and teens (and some adults) were lots of makeup, hair stuff, lotion, deoderant etc. The other cause is more people in the tub equals more sweat. Each person sweats about a pint in a normal tub session. High PH also causes the tub to foam more. As Tiny bubbles said, foam down will help, but the foam will keep coming back. If you Super shock the tub (you did not say what chemical sysytem you were using, MPS/non-chlorine shock works best if you are using bromine or chlorine) let filter for 24 hours, pull the filters and rinse them well. Let it filter another 24 hours and rinse the filters again. A claifier that coagulates and floculates may be helpful. It will collect all the smaller unfilterable particles and make them larger so the filter can pick them up and you can rinse them off. Plan on shocking and rinsing filters for a bit when you have guests. If you do not do this the stuff causing the foam will stay in the water and continue to be an issue untill you do a water change.

You can drain it for the summer. If you live in an area that can freeze you should also winterize it just in case you do not get it up and running before a frost. To help keep mildew out of the lines, take a shop vac and put it on every jet sucking as much water as you can out(this is also part of winterizing) open the pump unions and drain them out, suck out water in filter, get as much as you can out of the tub. Ther is 15 gallons and up of water left in the tub after draining depending on how many jets etc. you have. Pull out filters, clean and leave them out. Clean cover well and let dry before placing back on tub. Put inscect/rodent repelent under the cabinet. When you start it back up, fill it and super shock it! If you see junk coming out of jets, you can put some jet clean or swirl away in, let it run a little bit, then drain and refill. Check pump seals when you start it back up, sometimes they dry out after a tub has been drained and sitting and will leak. If they are leaking, take care of them right away. Plumbing should be fine. If you leave the tub running, you still need to keep the water chemistry. Letting the PH go off is just as damaging to the tub and if you don't have sanitizer you will have more than mold growing in the water. You can keep the temp turned way down and set it for the shortest filter cycle (unless you have a 24 hour circ pump) as long as you check the water chemistry. Thanks for the great advice. Would it be wise to run a little bleach through before draining it? You can, it will kill any germs you have now, but there will be no long term effect from the bleach. (It won't continue to kill germs thoughout the summer) so you will have to start up with a super shock still.

You can drain it for the summer. If you live in an area that can freeze you should also winterize it just in case you do not get it up and running before a frost. To help keep mildew out of the lines, take a shop vac and put it on every jet sucking as much water as you can out(this is also part of winterizing) open the pump unions and drain them out, suck out water in filter, get as much as you can out of the tub. Ther is 15 gallons and up of water left in the tub after draining depending on how many jets etc. you have. Pull out filters, clean and leave them out. Clean cover well and let dry before placing back on tub. Put inscect/rodent repelent under the cabinet. When you start it back up, fill it and super shock it! If you see junk coming out of jets, you can put some jet clean or swirl away in, let it run a little bit, then drain and refill. Check pump seals when you start it back up, sometimes they dry out after a tub has been drained and sitting and will leak. If they are leaking, take care of them right away. Plumbing should be fine. If you leave the tub running, you still need to keep the water chemistry. Letting the PH go off is just as damaging to the tub and if you don't have sanitizer you will have more than mold growing in the water. You can keep the temp turned way down and set it for the shortest filter cycle (unless you have a 24 hour circ pump) as long as you check the water chemistry.

It all depends on what the spa has in it..more pumps=more money, more jets=more money, better warranty=more money, area, what freight costs the dealer, what are you getting for service, etc.ect. BALLPARK...high ends of rough size of the Master spa...$10,000 and up. The more in it the more "up" the price. If you look back through the threads many people have put what they have paid for different tubs. This may help you. I will add to the list www.clearwaterspas.com

I know they aren’t known as a top shelf brand (or even middle of the road) but that is crazy. I've heard of salesmen who have used silly displays like jumping up and down inside the spa to show how strong the shell was. I've always thought that was carnival showmanship because after all, any good shell can withstand that. After this story I'm rethinking the whole idea. Maybe along with wet testing we should recommend that shoppers add jumping on the shell to heir lists of things to do when shopping!!! When repaired we noted the acrylic layer was very this and a thin amount of fiberglass was added and no support post under the seat. We have seen this in other keys tubs, along with many failures(cracks in the acrylic) at the foot blaster, and have seen some that seem to be built a little stronger. Guess it depends what shift your tub is made on! Just some more things that are hard for consumers to look for, or maybe God was just trying to tell him something?!?!

So it was a no-go on filling the klondiker and testing it out. The reasoning was the amount of work involved - the showroom and outdoor test areas are filled to capacity with fireplaces, outdoor furniture and other tubs, so they decided it was too much to move all around for the wet test of the klondiker. The owner was apologetic about it and said he has an 06 Kodiak at home and we could come over to his house and try that lounger out. That wouldn't solve the differing shapes of the lounger issue tho. He also said that he has no issue with replacing the tub with another one free of charge after delivery if we decide we are not 2 lounger people. I'm assuming switching to the Kodiak or Tundra Given that we did test the Tundra and really liked it, its not a bad option I suppose. That being said, is this a normal practice? I was quite surprised, although not wet testing the loungers was a deal breaker for me, so not a total surprise I guess. What would you all say that approach? I think the dealer is really trying to work with you. It takes a lot to move everything, pay staff to do it ect. I can see where he is coming from as we come upon a busy time of year. He is allowing you to test his personal tub, which would give you a feel for the lounge(the big issue is that some people float out of them) and offering to replace the tub if you do not like it, kind of the same as having a wet test to me in a more personal setting, don't like it then pick a different tub. I think I would applaud him at this point.

I have to share this personal story with all, use it to make you smile or maybe learn from his troubles. We had a customer(bought chemicals for his exsisting tub) call us to fix his tub. It was not working at all. We went out to check out the situation. He had a 1986 Hot Springs on his deck and the day before there was a terrible storm. The tub had been struck by lightning. It took out everything, control system, pumps and blackened the shell. He is a minister so we joked with him that god was out to get him! He put a claim in for his insurance. They actually gave him a fairly large sum of money considering the age of the tub. He decided rather than fix the tub, he would purchase another one. He had enough money to purchase a 6 month old Keys Backyard Tub. Due to being a second owner....no warranty. He thought...what could go wrong, the tub is only 6 months old. The following month we received a call....he had a major issue with his new tub. We arrived and went on to tell us...it was beginning to rain while I was sitting in the tub, the clouds were getting dark so I decided to fold up my umbrella and go in. He stepped in the seat to stand up to close the umbrella, slipped a little and put his foot right through the acrylic of the tub! There is a hole the size of a soft ball!! Well, we did fix the tub so it holds water, not real pretty, but it works. Cost him just shy of a $1000.00. We told him maybe he better make sure he always has someone with him while using the tub, that someone just did not want him to have one! We have not heard of any further issues....actually we have not heard from him in a few months....maybe someone better go check the tub! Thought this would get a smile from a few and also point out some quality pointers. The proof is in the pudding with the higher quality tubs and its not always what you see in the lower priced tubs. Happy tubbing!

Get 3 nylon eye to eye straps long enough to go completely under your spa and a few feet up each side (about 14 feet) and 6 friends and a case of beer or 2. Pick it up and move it right off the platform and set it down. Work on your base and repeat. Actualy 4 guys would do it but go slow. 3-4 inches out of level is a lot. I would fight with the contractor if he was suppose to make you a level pad. Maybe some back up from the spa manufacturer that being this far out of level could be damaging to your tub, whats going to happen down the road as it sits with more pressure on one side....

You are really looking at different classes. While I am not a fan of the propriotary Sundance parts or there tubs, they are a better built unit than the Great Lakes. But a Great Lakes is a very good value tub. For 3-5 grand a GL has a proven record for lasting longer than most inexpensive value tubs with very little trouble. Now if you were comparing the GL to say Nordic or one of several other value brands out there we would have a better comparision. We used to sell Great Lakes before they partnered with Emerald. We never had any issues with them. I am not sure how it is going since the merge. They are a different breed of bird than the Sundance. What are you looking for in a tub?

Just be careful they do not block your skimmer off, we have had people this has happened to that have the lily pad/teloscoping filters in their tubs.

My brands that I carry are PH UP= sodium carbonate, and the alkalinity ups are sodium hydrogen carbonate or sodium bi carbonate, this is on 3 different brands, so leads me to beleive that baking soda is alkalinity up, not PH up. Borax super washing soda, or something like that is PH up. Several previous threads on this by chem geek and others. They do affect the water chemistry differently, not trying to cause an issue, but don't want all confused.

PH Increaser= Sodium Carbonate....Alkalinity Increaser = Sodium hydrogen carbonate, they are different.

This is one of the reasons we stay clear of full foam units....Have you tried dark food coloring in the water? It makes it a bit easier to chase leaks. The foam is a pain to pull out, but it can be done. If you have just a few leaks and want to do it on your own, I would give it a try. Replacing all of them is not worth it. All the foam you pull out needs to be replaced, so of it is for structure. Good luck.

If you go to the water chemistry section and check out the threads there, there is a lot of info on Nature 2. Check cover play also, it is a high quality cover with a lifter built in.

If your PH reads fine on the test strip, this is your acidity. Where are you getting a low reading for acid? The PH part of the test strip tests for the level...6.2-8.4 on most test strips. Low PH would be reading below 7.2, high PH would be reading above 7.8, ok is in the middle. Are you reading the Alkalinity for the low? If this is the case, you alkalinity is low. Alkalinity helps buffer the PH, keeping it from jumping around as much. They have alkalinity increaser also (pure baking soda is the household version) to raise this. Bear in mind, raising the alkalinity will also raise your PH. Its a fun game... To raise my alkalinity when my PH is ok, I have to lower the PH with PH down, then add alkalinity increaser to raise both PH and alkalinity. If your PH is good and you have no other water chemistry issues, no irritation I would leave it be untill you are more comfortable with the water chemistry.

Since you are in Washington, check out Clearwater, they have a huge showroom and make the spas right there in your state. (Woodinville) As a service center for the company that makes the Cosco tubs, we can say you get what you pay for. Roger is right. They make look the same, but they just are not. Many dealers of higher end tubs offer financing for your purchase, check others out. Good luck

A Floater will help keep the sanitizer levels up, but not to perfection. They chemicals may not last the full 2 weeks, and the PH may drift. You ill have to attend to it before use. I would suggest a good shock before you go and when you get back, along with making sure the PH is adjusted. Don't shut the tub off while you are gone.

#1 If 1 tsp each time you get out is keeping the chlorine levels where they belong, keep doing it. If it is not, such as to high or to low, you will have to adjust. more people using the tub is going to call for more chlorine. #2 You can not add stain and scale with others, it has to be separtate. Waiting 15 minutes allows the chemicals to circulate and mix in with the water. Clarifier should be able to be added at anytime. #3Use the stuff to clean your tub that is made for spas. If you use household cleaners, they have additives that can cause foamy water and PH issues. Thay are hard to get out of the tub unless you are going to tip it on its side and super rinse it! Whatever you use to clean the tub, use sparingly and rinse as much out as you can.