Starting Dichlor/bleach Method

[WRMcAninch]

I did a decontamination with Ahh-Some, drained, refilled and ran jets, drained again and then refilled. I have everything I need to start the Dichlor/Bleach method. My question is should I wait for the water temperature to come up to temp before starting the procedure? Also, when do you add the Boric Acid for the Borates, before or after water balancing?

Thanks,

Bill

[WRMcAninch]

So... this is what I ended up with for numbers.

CH - 90

PH - 7.6

TA - 40

FC - 18

I started out with a PH >8.0 and the TA was 100.

I over did it with the Dichlor I guess :-(

I added Boric Acid for the Borates using Poolmath, is there a way to measure Borates to see what the ppm is?

Should I raise the TA with baking soda?

What about the CH, should I raise that up to 120 or so?

Thanks again,

Bill

[chem geek]

See if your pH is stable and if it is you can bump up your TA a little to 50 ppm by adding baking soda. You can use PoolMath to calculate dosages. You shouldn't need to test for borates if you added the right amount since they won't go away until your next water change, but if you want to test for them there are LaMotte Borate Test Strips. As for the CH you only need to raise it to 120-150 ppm if you find you have some foaming.

[WRMcAninch]

After a week, here are my numbers;

TA - 40

PH - 7.4

CH - 130

CYA - 45

FC - 1 (Getting ready to go in)

Guess its time to start using the Bleach. Also.. I added some baking soda to raise TA but it doesn't want to move. Going to try a little bit more to try and get TA up. Other than that, how do things look? PoolMath is a nice tool.

The best part is.... I can actually use it, no bumps or itching :-)

[chem geek]

Looks good.

[WRMcAninch]

Thank you for all your input Chem Geek, it's much appreciated.

[WRMcAninch]

After 3 weeks and adding water twice I decided to check things out.

PH - 7.4

TA - 45

CH - 50

CYA - 40

The TA seams a little low but if I try and raise it, the PH tends to rise. With a TA of 45 the PH seams to stay put at 7.4.

I added a little water twice and I was surprised that the CH was so low, I put in some calcium chloride to raise it.

I have a very slight (barely see it) white haze at the water line. Is this a sign of something out of wack? Or just wipe it down with something?

Been using the Bleach now, maybe 2 or 3 oz a day, depends on the use. I have to admit, when I was reading about how to do this method, and when I first started doing it, it seemed like way to much work. But once I started using Bleach, now it seems way to easy. I use test strips for the FC and have gotten good at seeing the color and knowing how much Bleach to use. Best of all I can tell that this is going to be way less expensive than Pool store chemicals.

I'd like to say thanks again for this forum and Chem Geek's help.

Because of this forum, my wife and I are Happy Tubers :-)

[chem geek]

Keep the TA at 45 ppm. There's nothing wrong with that, especially if you use 50 ppm Borates (from boric acid). You shouldn't raise your CH higher than 150 ppm -- that's enough to prevent foaming but low enough along with the low TA to prevent calcium carbonate scaling even if the pH goes up.

Before your next water change, you should use Ahh-Some. That will take care of any lingering biofilm or greases you have may have in your piping.

Don't forget that about once a month you'll need to use Dichlor to make up for the CYA that slowly gets oxidized by chlorine (about 5 ppm CYA gets lost per month).

[WRMcAninch]

I can't thank this forum enough. I've been using this method now for about 5 months and my water is crystal clear. I can use the tub as much as I want with no effect to my skin at all. Another benefit is the cost, I think I've only spent $9.00 on 3 gallons of bleach since I started, can't beat that

As I said, it's been about 5 months, water still looks great, but was wondering when I should plan a water change. Winters can be miserable in my area so I don't want to get stuck doing a change then. Should I change it twice a year or will it make it to October and plan on an annual changes?

Thanks again for all the help.......

[chem geek]

Don't forget that about once a month you need to us Dichlor for a day to keep up your CYA level since it will be slowly oxidized by chlorine at the rate of roughly 5 ppm CYA per month. If you do not do this, then the lower CYA will make the active chlorine level too high and your water will become harsher and the chlorine will get used up faster (from increased outgassing).

As for how long you can go before changing the water, the rough rule-of-thumb is that with the Dichlor-then-bleach method you can get by with around twice as long between water changes compared to the standard Water Replacement Interval (WRI) formula. So for this method and using person-hours that would be (2/9) x (Spa Size in Gallons) / (# of person-hours per day).

So what is your spa size in gallons and how many people soak for how long and how often?

[WRMcAninch]

The tub is 315 gallons and on average it would be two (2) people for an hour (1) a day seven days a week.

[chem geek]

So if you were using Dichlor-only and did not have an ozonator you'd normally have to change the water after (1/9) x (315) / (2) = 17 days while with Dichlor-then-bleach you'd be able to go double that or about a month -- it's so short because 2 people for an hour every day in that size tub is quite high a bather load. So the fact that you are going for many months with still clear water either means that the water temperature is quite a bit lower (it probably is since I doubt you are soaking in 104ºF for an hour) and you are very clean getting in and/or you have an ozonator that is helping to oxidize chemicals that chlorine doesn't normally oxidize.

Do you have an ozonator? Are you using any other products besides the Dichlor/bleach and pH adjustment?

[WRMcAninch]

Yes I do have an ozonator, the temp is lower and we are clean people.. lol.

Usually 100 or 101 in the winter when it's cold out. When the weather is warmer, we go cooler yet. My wife is not big on getting to hot so in the summer it might be 97 degrees.

The only other products I've used are a defoamer; hth Defoamer by Arch Chemicals. Only time I use that is after the step-daughter has friends over and they use suits. The other is a stain and scale preventative; Diamond Spa Bright by N. Jonas & Co., Inc. Used this a few times when I got white haze at the water line, not sure if it did anything.

[minnespa]

Don't forget that about once a month you need to us Dichlor for a day to keep up your CYA level since it will be slowly oxidized by chlorine at the rate of roughly 5 ppm CYA per month. If you do not do this, then the lower CYA will make the active chlorine level too high and your water will become harsher and the chlorine will get used up faster (from increased outgassing).

As for how long you can go before changing the water, the rough rule-of-thumb is that with the Dichlor-then-bleach method you can get by with around twice as long between water changes compared to the standard Water Replacement Interval (WRI) formula. So for this method and using person-hours that would be (2/9) x (Spa Size in Gallons) / (# of person-hours per day).

So what is your spa size in gallons and how many people soak for how long and how often?

I've been reading this, and I'm curious as to how he's keeping his pH so stable. Granted, the TA is very low. Is this likely a result of the dichlor/bleach and low CH?

[chem geek]

The pH is stable because of the combination of low TA with the use of borates (boric acid). TA is a measure of the over-carbonation in the water. The outgassing of carbon dioxide causes the pH to rise. So a lower TA helps with that IF you aren't using any net acidic chemical products. The boric acid is a supplemental pH buffer that gets stronger at higher pH so is well suited to slowing down the rate of pH rise.

[minnespa]

Right on. Thank you! We're really loving the dichlor/bleach method over here.