New Pool Build Is Underway!

[bjohns06]

First of all, thanks to everyone for sharing your stories as we have learned much from this site and others over last several months. Our pool build is now underway and I thought I would share the progress so others can learn as well. There were lots of design choices and while some had clear benefits to us over others functionally, a lot of them came down to budget and/or personal preference. My best advice thus far is to not beat yourself up over the little decisions, take your time, and plan it all out considering any future backyard plans in your design.

And off we go.... if there is interest I will be eeping this up to date and give you all the good and bad with our experience as we go along to the end. Link here -

Choices we made:

18x40 inground vinyl liner pool (midwest region)

Caicos liner

Heat pump

AutoCover

Saltwater generator

Autofill (Levolor)

Step bench

sport pool design which goes 3'4" shallow to 6' middle to 3'4" shallow.

Pool house/shed for storage

Concrete decking 5' on the long sides, 7' on pool house end and 13" feet on other end (for lounging)

Pre-install for future water feature

Umbrella drop ins for the concrete deck

Happy to answers questions on why we made these choices vs other options.

[bjohns06]

Day 2 was walls up and footings in place. Starting to look like a pool and loving the size we chose for our yard. Everything went well today and the weather for mid -October here continued to be great! Couple things I experienced today: First I was glad that I went out when I did because they were going to put the in wall ladder in a different location than I had specified, wouldn't have been terrible, just not what I had communicated earlier...so got lucky there and they corrected in before footings were down. The step bench looks awesomw and so glad we made that choice, however the last step is a little narrower than I expected but the bench is bigger than I expected too....so it evens out and my wife is fine with it so that is what is important . The level of the top of the wall seems low to me but will see once they get the coping et all on...will continue to trust they have that most important piece right for proper drainage.

Anyway that's all for Day 2 . Here are some pics.

[bjohns06]

Day 3 done, not too exciting today as they are waiting for the ocncrete footing to cure. Just some plumbing prep work for the day instlaling returns, skimmers, drain. etc. Looking forward to next week weather permitting for pool house foundation walls, backfill and retaining wall installation.

[jkusmier]

Looking good. A couple of questions, out of curiosity:

- who's the manufacturer of the wall system?

- looks like your pool is above the surrounding grade - are you installing an elevated deck?

- did you ask your builder why he uses flex pipe instead of rigid pipe?

[bjohns06]

Looking good. A couple of questions, out of curiosity:

- who's the manufacturer of the wall system?

- looks like your pool is above the surrounding grade - are you installing an elevated deck?

- did you ask your builder why he uses flex pipe instead of rigid pipe?

Good questions, the manufacturer is Alpha and the model of the wall is Titan Steel. They manufacture it per each design and I thought that was a hoax to be honest, but all the printing on the panels have the manufactured date right on them so I guess its true. The Titan Steel is a glavanized steel wall with rust corrsoion protection which was important to us given we did a saltwater generator pool. I would make sure your builder uses appropriate (brass) screws/rivets/anchors as well around the thing like ladders otherwise they would be subject to rust as well.

On the elevation, the pool is level with our existing patio (actually 1.5" higher) to allow to drain the deck away from the pool. Our yard slopes about 26" back toward the tree line. The pool guys are backfilling with dirt and compacting and then we are having a landscape company construct a solid reating wall system with draninage tiling to bring the elveation of the ground and subsequent decking to the pool level. The retaining wall will be approx 30" in height. On that backside theere will be 5' of concrete deck + 2.5' of soil/mulch bed before you hit the reatining wall. On the end sides of the pool the retaining wall will be feathered into the existing grade but there will be more decking on the ends.

I don't have an answer on the flex pipe vs rigid just know that is what they have always used when we checked references and saw their pictures. SOrry can't answer that one...will ask him though. Hope this helps.

[quantumchromodynamics]

Make sure that the concrete deck contains reinforcing wire mesh or rebar. Very important to create a equipotential plane.

[footie]

Are you heating the pool? The only reason I ask is to see whether you are insulating the walls and if you did below the pool before you started. Our pool is heated but when building it (it's a concrete formed walls with a concrete base) we laid 4" silver backed foam panels on the floor and around the walls as added insulation (similar idea to a hot tub) and our heating bills are remarkably low because of this.

P.S.

Though I tiled my pool the liner is a good method and a heck of a lot cheaper too. Please keep the photos coming.

[bjohns06]

Are you heating the pool? The only reason I ask is to see whether you are insulating the walls and if you did below the pool before you started. Our pool is heated but when building it (it's a concrete formed walls with a concrete base) we laid 4" silver backed foam panels on the floor and around the walls as added insulation (similar idea to a hot tub) and our heating bills are remarkably low because of this.

P.S.

Though I tiled my pool the liner is a good method and a heck of a lot cheaper too. Please keep the photos coming.

Yes we are heating the pool but not year round...we will close it end of October and open in beginning of April each year. The walls will be insulated and we will have an auto cover to keep the heat in. The floors are not insulated... I had never even thought or heard of that as an option. Would be interested in knowing what prompted you to go that route for future reference.

We talked to several that had installed a similar configuration to ours several years ago to see what the impact to heating bills expected. The consistent answer we got was that during season (when pool open) the cost will run an additional $50-100 per month depending on how much the pool is used. The heat pump around these parts typically only runs hard April/May and then again in Sept/Oct....June July Aug it is on but barely ever running as long as you have the auto cover. For those that did not go with auto cover the monthly addiitonal cost was stated at $100-$200 a month, about double.

[bjohns06]

Make sure that the concrete deck contains reinforcing wire mesh or rebar. Very important to create a equipotential plane.

Thank you, they are putting in rebar 24" on center throughout the decking surround. I was amazed the differences in opinion on the rebar distance, the concrete depth, and even concrete PSI to be used. Some bids had rebar every 24" while some had 16" and others 48". On concrete depth most said 4" slab but had one guy recommend 6" slab. On the PSI of the concrete most said 4000 PSI but had a couple recommend HD which was like 5500 PSI.

We ended up going 4" slab, 4000 PSI, and 24" on center rebar. Hope we made an adequate choice on this, just thought it was wierd the variety of options there were and differing expert opinions. Appreciate your thoughts on this and what you did.

[footie]

Yes we are heating the pool but not year round...we will close it end of October and open in beginning of April each year. The walls will be insulated and we will have an auto cover to keep the heat in. The floors are not insulated... I had never even thought or heard of that as an option. Would be interested in knowing what prompted you to go that route for future reference.

We talked to several that had installed a similar configuration to ours several years ago to see what the impact to heating bills expected. The consistent answer we got was that during season (when pool open) the cost will run an additional $50-100 per month depending on how much the pool is used. The heat pump around these parts typically only runs hard April/May and then again in Sept/Oct....June July Aug it is on but barely ever running as long as you have the auto cover. For those that did not go with auto cover the monthly addiitonal cost was stated at $100-$200 a month, about double.

Call me a tight fisted f'er because I hate throwing money away but I looked at the price of the insulation and original intended to only insulate the sides like yourself, but talking the the supplier of the panels they felt that there would be no compression and the additional insulating would stop any leakage of heat through the ground which we all know there is a far greater transference of heat through connect than through the air.

I too have a insulated cover though no automated, though I heat mine all year round I do turn the heating off when on holiday and on those two weeks away my temperature only drops 4 degree. As far as cost of heating goes, my best estimates are that it's costing me about £7 per week on a pool that 32ft x 14ft with an average depth of 4th.

[Razorhog]

Awesome looking project you've got going there. I hope to be able to put in a pool some day. One thing that I immediately noticed is that your pool is not "traditional" in the sense that there is a deep end and a shallow end. Why is the deep part in the middle? How deep is it?

[jkusmier]

Make sure that the concrete deck contains reinforcing wire mesh or rebar. Very important to create a equipotential plane.

Thank you, they are putting in rebar 24" on center throughout the decking surround. I was amazed the differences in opinion on the rebar distance, the concrete depth, and even concrete PSI to be used. Some bids had rebar every 24" while some had 16" and others 48". On concrete depth most said 4" slab but had one guy recommend 6" slab. On the PSI of the concrete most said 4000 PSI but had a couple recommend HD which was like 5500 PSI.

We ended up going 4" slab, 4000 PSI, and 24" on center rebar. Hope we made an adequate choice on this, just thought it was wierd the variety of options there were and differing expert opinions. Appreciate your thoughts on this and what you did.

A thicker slab doesn't necessarily translate into a stronger slab, so good decision on your part. A solid, well compacted base is the key. Rebar and a good fiber mix are also critical components of a lasting pour. You might even consider placing sonotubes or something else (thin-walled PVC, like schedule 20 or lower) around the perimeter of the pool before the excavated surround is backfilled, then filling same with concrete during the deck pour to serve as supporting columns. (We actually placed them before the footing was poured so the columns would be bonded to both the footing and deck). Probably overkill, but concrete cracks and the more precautions you take the longer it lasts.

I asked about the flex-pipe because there are many who claim it is susceptible to crushing, surge damage (think of a garden hose that swells and eventually ruptures over repeated cycles of surge pressure when you turn the faucet) and insects - specifically termites. One can plumb a pool more quickly with flex because it obviates the need to plumb all the joints as required by rigid pipe - which translates into labor/time savings. But locating and repairing a leak under 4" of concrete is a nightmare. Not a criticism, just an FYI from someone who has read lots of threads full of anguished pool owners.

[jkusmier]

That's a sweet looking build, by the way! We have the same liner pattern (Caicos) and love it.

[quantumchromodynamics]

A thicker slab doesn't necessarily translate into a stronger slab

All else being equal, I think that a thicker slab does translate to a stronger slab. I generally prefer to over-engineer things to prevent problems down the road. I usually prefer thicker concrete, a higher psi, larger diameter rebar, closer spacing etc.

I also want to point out that the reinforcing rebar or wire mesh is important not only for strength, but for creating an equipotential bonding plane. An equipotential bonding plane is necessary to help prevent voltage differences between different parts of the pool area.

[bjohns06]

Awesome looking project you've got going there. I hope to be able to put in a pool some day. One thing that I immediately noticed is that your pool is not "traditional" in the sense that there is a deep end and a shallow end. Why is the deep part in the middle? How deep is it?

Correct we are doing a sport pool which is 3'4" shallow on both ends , flat for 12' on each side and then sloping down to 6 feet in the middle. It is a pool style desinged for more recreational and sets up weel for volleyball so no one ends up treading water in the deepend. We originally thought we wanted a diving depth pool but then realized that people we know that have one spend most of their time in the shallows and diving board rarely gets used. You can still do cannonballs in our style just no diving. If we were to have done a tradiitonal diving depth pool 3'4" down to 9' and the same size pool we would have ended up with only 14 ft of shallow vs. total 24 ft we will have. Personal preference though ..if you want to dive head first this is not the pool type for you.

[bjohns06]

Make sure that the concrete deck contains reinforcing wire mesh or rebar. Very important to create a equipotential plane.

Thank you, they are putting in rebar 24" on center throughout the decking surround. I was amazed the differences in opinion on the rebar distance, the concrete depth, and even concrete PSI to be used. Some bids had rebar every 24" while some had 16" and others 48". On concrete depth most said 4" slab but had one guy recommend 6" slab. On the PSI of the concrete most said 4000 PSI but had a couple recommend HD which was like 5500 PSI.

We ended up going 4" slab, 4000 PSI, and 24" on center rebar. Hope we made an adequate choice on this, just thought it was wierd the variety of options there were and differing expert opinions. Appreciate your thoughts on this and what you did.

A thicker slab doesn't necessarily translate into a stronger slab, so good decision on your part. A solid, well compacted base is the key. Rebar and a good fiber mix are also critical components of a lasting pour. You might even consider placing sonotubes or something else (thin-walled PVC, like schedule 20 or lower) around the perimeter of the pool before the excavated surround is backfilled, then filling same with concrete during the deck pour to serve as supporting columns. (We actually placed them before the footing was poured so the columns would be bonded to both the footing and deck). Probably overkill, but concrete cracks and the more precautions you take the longer it lasts.

I asked about the flex-pipe because there are many who claim it is susceptible to crushing, surge damage (think of a garden hose that swells and eventually ruptures over repeated cycles of surge pressure when you turn the faucet) and insects - specifically termites. One can plumb a pool more quickly with flex because it obviates the need to plumb all the joints as required by rigid pipe - which translates into labor/time savings. But locating and repairing a leak under 4" of concrete is a nightmare. Not a criticism, just an FYI from someone who has read lots of threads full of anguished pool owners.

Great feedback on the piping. A little late for us but definitely the kind of advice that others can/should use from this site. Thank you.

[bjohns06]

Well it has been a couple busy days. Monday was supposed to be Day 4 but due to miscommunication between my GC conrete guys for the pool house/landscape and the pool installer little was accomplished. Reasoning was valid and stemmed from waiting for permit approval from the city before the footings could be poured. Lesson learned - get permits in early (my bad) and don't sweat small delays especially if it is because the contractors did not want to get in each others way and at least there were communicating with each other.

So Tuesday was Day 4 which was pouring the footings for the pool house/shed and backfilling the pool overdig with dirt. Pretty uneventful in all honesty. Footing pour went well but was a little nervous on making sure it was centered with the pool. GC told me it would be even though it didn't look like it at first glance. Backfill went well, definitely will need to put out the soakeer hoses shortly to help the dirt settle with no rain in the forecast anytime soon. Day 4 pictures are here:

Today was Day 5 and was solely for pouring the foundation walls for the pool house. Even though it was extra for full foundation walls, with the elevation and concern for long term durability I firmly believe we made the right choice. Another GC bid we did not go with was going to just build up the grade and then do a slab with edge footings for the pool house. So with the foundation walls poured you really get the sense of just how big a only 10x14 structure will be. BTW, GC was right.. it is perfectly centered with the pool and we love how it is shaping up. Only other thing today was wathcing the backfill settle some (which we want to happen) and bringing a coping sample to start getting measurements for reatining wall height. Day 5 pics are here:

Tomorrow the retaining wall and wall backfill will start and really excited about that. Hope it continues to go smooth. Enjoy!

[jkusmier]

A thicker slab doesn't necessarily translate into a stronger slab

All else being equal, I think that a thicker slab does translate to a stronger slab. I generally prefer to over-engineer things to prevent problems down the road. I usually prefer thicker concrete, a higher psi, larger diameter rebar, closer spacing etc.

I also want to point out that the reinforcing rebar or wire mesh is important not only for strength, but for creating an equipotential bonding plane. An equipotential bonding plane is necessary to help prevent voltage differences between different parts of the pool area.

I (sort of) disagree. I agree w/ higher psi and tighter (closer spaced) reba, but Assuming proper preparation (including a deep, well-compacted bed of 3/4 clean, a good fiber mix and judicious use of rebar that is properly suspended in the middle of the deck and not left lying on the bottom of the area) then 4" should last as long as 6". Absent these precautions, I guarantee that the greater weight of a 6" pour will cause it to fail sooner than a 4" pour. We don't really disagree, what I'm saying is that many people think that thicker slabs alone translate into stronger pours - in fact, they'll see the same or opposite results.

[bjohns06]

Well the reatining wall is going in but it is slower than I would have liked. Listen, the guys are doing it right and that is what is most important I guess, but they are highly inefficent. 2 guys and 1 of them is ALWAYS gone going to get something, another load, another tool, lunch, you name it. It was getting to me so I called my GC to let him know they either needed more help or a talking to. He said he would and did but at the point they are at now another guys doesn't really add much. Wish they would have done it from the beginning. They also got a lecture from my GC as a path from the street to the yard is already tore up and designated use for hauling in equipment and material. Think they would use that....nope, instead they dumped the gravel and stuff in the street (oh boy). I don't mind the mess but then every time they needed another scoop they went all the way back out to the street versus dumping it 10 feet from where they were working.

Like I said the wall is going in the right way, we love ours reatining stone choice and layout, but the method by which they are doing it though is rather irritating. OK, that is my vent for the project.

Pool house foundation is also backfilled and it rained last night so the dirt and sand is settling which is perfect. A little more rain today and tomorrow and we should be good to go and ready for compaction. They say they will have most of the wall up end of day today....but I believe it when I see it. Will have pictures up from Thursday to Saturday up tomorrow.

[jkusmier]

They also got a lecture from my GC as a path from the street to the yard is already tore up and designated use for hauling in equipment and material. Think they would use that....nope, instead they dumped the gravel and stuff in the street (oh boy). I don't mind the mess but then every time they needed another scoop they went all the way back out to the street versus dumping it 10 feet from where they were working.

I can't really comment without having eyes on, but as a general proposition you want to keep dirt from contaminating the backfill, which may explain why they opted to dump it in the street. Some contractor will bring something akin to a concrete truck, w/ an extending conveyor that can just shoot the rock on target. Ultimately, pool builds are messy. Just remember that the lawn and landscaping are easily repaired, and all of this will be a distant memory come next summer.

[Dillon A]

bjohns06, I found this post very interesting, but it has not had an update in 7 months. Could we get an update of the final project?