Plaster Wear

[fsae0607]

Hello, I have a 20k gallon gunite/plaster pool. My pool was finished with plaster (don't know the type, just that it's white) when the investors flipped the house I bought. By the time escrow closed, the pool was filled and I started taking care of it. As of right now, here are my levels (tested with my DPD Taylor kit, K-2600 I believe):

Temp = 86 - 92 °F (I keep it in this range with a solar cover)

FC = 6.0 - 8.0 ppm (I keep it in this range all the time using 12.5% NaOCl)

CC = 0 ppm (I use monopersulfate to shock every week)

pH = 7.5

TA = 180 ppm

CYA = 70 ppm

Filtration = DE filter

I haven't measured my CH, but I do know that where I live the water is very hard. Anyways, I brush & vacuum every weekend and the water stays crystal clear. That is, until I have a bunch of people in the pool. I know that the chlorine levels aren't to blame, since I test the water during the peak of a pool party and maintain the safe level of FC, also I never detect CC. Also, I add shock before and after the party. What I think they're doing is kicking up the plaster and clouding the water. I also notice plaster dust kick up when I brush. In the shallow end where most people hang out, the plaster has worn thin. The worn spots look bluish. There are some chips down to the gunite, which I'm going to patch with some compound.

My question is: is this normal wear & tear on the plaster, or did the pool tech who refinished it do a poor job? It's just frustrating that everytime I have a pool party I get a cloudy pool and have to use clarifier to cleear it up.

I searched the forums, but nothing really answered my question. I appreciate any help you can give me. Thanks in advance!

[quantumchromodynamics]

We need to know the calcium hardness level. If you have the Taylor K-2006, it comes with a calcium hardness test.

Are you sure that the pool is not painted?

Is there a heater?

Can you have a copper test done?

Can you post some pictures at Photobucket and post a link?

[quantumchromodynamics]

There are several things that can cause the type of cloudiness that you are describing.

If the CSI (Calcite Saturation Index) is too low, the plaster will begin to dissolve and there will be cloudiness when the plaster is rubbed or brushed.

If the CSI is too high, there can be calcium carbonate precipitate or scale.

If the pool is painted, then it is common for the paint to "chalk" when rubbed or brushed.

It could be DE. If the DE filter has a torn fabric or other defect, then DE can get back into the pool. It will settle on the bottom until it is disturbed. The next time you add DE to the filter, watch for DE to come out of the returns.

Rub your hand on the wall. If there is any white left on your hand, then it is probably paint.

The blue is a concern, especially if there is a heater. Blue is usually from copper. If there is a heater, then low pH could have caused corrosion of the copper heat exchanger in the heater and plaster degradation.

Have you ever used a copper based algaecide or an ionizer?

Plaster should not begin to wear out for at least 10 to 15 years as long as the chemistry is properly maintained. You should not be able to see any gunite this soon.

[fsae0607]

Ah you know what, I don't hae the K-2600. It's just the DPD kit.

There is a heater, which is not functioning but the water circulates through it. I'm going to remove it and re-plumb everything once I close the pool this year. I've never used algicide. Now that you mention it, there is white residue when you rub it with your hand. The lisiting of my house when I bought it says that the pool was "re-finished". I only notice the blue where the paint (which I'll call it now) is worn thin. The undisturbed deep end is still white.

In the chipped areas I notice a thick layer of plaster, so I hope i can just patch these chips with compound that I bought.

I'll take pics tonight and post them. So do you think this is a major problem? Should I worry?

Thanks!

[quantumchromodynamics]

I'm thinking that there is paint over blue plaster, copper stained plaster or blue paint. I think that paint should never be used in a pool. They just found a cheap way to make the pool look good to sell the pool instead of doing the right thing,

The plaster that is coming off is delaminations.

I think that the best thing to do is to drain and check the plaster for delaminations. If there are major areas of delaminations, the plaster should be removed and the pool should be replastered.

If the plaster is basically sound, then it would be best to sandblast off the paint and replaster over the old plaster.

At that point, you will probably want to do the tile and coping as well. So, a major renovation.

[lbridges]

What quantumchromodynamics is suggesting (perhaps a new plastering, with tile, etc) will be expensive. I think if that's the case it might be worth speaking to a real-estate lawyer about the seller's failure to disclose paining over a plaster finish (if they did) - depending on the laws in your area, you might get a subsidized repair from the previous owner and/or agent (if they knew).

[quantumchromodynamics]

I suspect that the previous owner was advised to do a proper renovation. I also suspect that they decided to just slap on a coat of paint and let the next person worry about it.

Of course, the previous owner could just claim that there was nothing wrong with painting the pool.

To prevail in a dispute, you would have to get an expert to certify that the previous owner did something wrong or tried to hide some sort of known defect.

You might want to contact the person who did the "refinishing" and ask them what they advised the previous owner to do. You could also inquire as to what warranties or guaranties, if any, apply to the refinishing.

If you can find someone who told them that there were major defects, then you might have some possible recourse.

Of course, I do not know any more detail than what you are providing, and I am just speculating as to what happened, and what the condition of the pool is.

And, it's just my opinion that paint is unacceptable. Since there is paint sold for use in pools, one could argue that there is nothing wrong with painting.

As far as the suggestion that the tile and coping would have to be done at the same time, it is my experience that tile, coping and plaster all last about 15 to 20 years, and that when you do one, you are probably going to need to do all three at the same time. You can do them individually, but it usually makes sense to at least consider doing them at the same time.

Was there any type of home inspection?

Did the inspection include the pool?

Is there any type of guaranty or warranty with regards to the condition of the home, pool and other property?

I would think that since the pool was advertised as "refinished", you should probably be able to expect a certain level of quality and performance. I wouldn't consider the quality and performance of the finish to be reasonable or acceptable.

[quantumchromodynamics]

If the plaster was substantially delaminated when the pool was drained, then painting would not be an acceptable option because delaminated plaster is structurally unsound.

However, you would have to be able to prove that the service company and/or the homeowner knew, or should have known, that the plaster was structurally unsound. You could request copies of all correspondence between the service company and the previous owner. Although, they would probably not be obligated unless you had a subpoena.

As Ibridges suggested, it might be worthwhile to consult an attorney to review your legal options.

[fsae0607]

I do have the contact for the company who cared for the pool, but not sure if they're the ones who refinished it. The plaster chips are on the steps, where most wear and tear happens (my speculation). I think I'll have that company check it out and get some opinions. I just hope that structurally it's sound.

Now I think it is painted blue-colored plaster, as I mentioned previously that I noticed a thick cross-section of plaster in the chipped off pieces. I forgot to take pics last night, I'll put some up later.

Thanks everyone for your input. I'll let you know what becomes of this (hopefully nothing serious!)

[AFiremanFirst]

cross section? Was there a crack they attempted to hide? Draining the pool could become a serious issue. Was the pool green when you bought the house? We see people turning them green for sale as it makes an inspection almost impossible! The inspector may be clear, but you haven't said if there was a pool inspection by someone claiming to be qualified to do the inspection. Have you had any othre problems? Is there any new equipment that suggest that somebody neglected the pool til sale only to bring it up to par for sale. Sounds like you have a nightmare on your hands. For the record. Quantum has given sound advice from some 1200 post now! I haven't been around here as long... But listen to his advice, he has nothing to gain by giving you bad advice