No Free Chlorine

[openbahr]

well, I am new to the forum and I am sick and tired of the pool stores costing me hundreds more than I need to spend.

last year it was phosphates and now this..

I opened my 23000 gal? (16x34 rectangle 3ft to 8ft)inground pool May 22, there was some algae and slime mold. I have a solid cover.

added all of the initial chems and ran the filter for 4 days straight.

I am now not holding any free chlorine. went to pool store to test water and found I have

TC=.5 FC=0 pH=7.6 Total alk.= 100 CA= 0 ...... not sure of accuracy as pool "professionals" test using dip strips.

they said to add 6lbs of stablizer to skimmer

went back a few days later and readings were the same

after a week CA level still has not risen.

they said it was a "chlorine lock" and suggested 1.5 L Phosfree, run filter for 3 days, backwash , add 4 lbs of shock (I put 5)

wait 24 hrs and bring a sample.

after doing that I tested with test strips 1 hour later and there is still no reading at all for FC

after reading a suggestion here I bought an ammonia test kit and found that my amonia is 8.0+ ppm (mg/L)

So, I suppose what happened is that the algae ate the CA and created all that ammonia.

my question is first, did the 5 lbs of shock make it worse? and what would you suggest doing at this point.

I bought a Taylor K-2006 test kid and it should be delivered monday.

thanks

Mike

[openbahr]

well, I am new to the forum and I am sick and tired of the pool stores costing me hundreds more than I need to spend.

last year it was phosphates and now this..

I opened my 25000 gal inground pool May 22, there was some algae and slime mold. I have a solid cover.

added all of the initial chems and ran the filter for 4 days straight.

I am now not holding any free chlorine. went to pool store to test water and found I have

TC=.5 FC=0 pH=7.6 Total alk.= 100 CA= 0 ...... not sure of accuracy as pool "professionals" test using dip strips.

they said to add 6lbs of stablizer to skimmer

went back a few days later and readings were the same

after a week CA level still has not risen.

they said it was a "chlorine lock" and suggested 1.5 L Phosfree, run filter for 3 days, backwash , add 4 lbs of shock (I put 5)

wait 24 hrs and bring a sample.

after doing that I tested with test strips 1 hour later and there is still no reading at all for FC

after reading a suggestion here I bought an ammonia test kit and found that my amonia is 8.0+ ppm (mg/L)

So, I suppose what happened is that the algae ate the CA and created all that ammonia.

my question is first, did the 5 lbs of shock make it worse? and what would you suggest doing at this point.

I bought a Taylor K-2006 test kid and it should be delivered monday.

thanks

Mike

I am doing the 2gal bucket test now (as discussed here http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=11769 ) with 2 tsp of bleach. lets see if that will raise fc and lower amonia.

[openbahr]

2 tsp and no help on the fc

ammonia came down a bit

gonna try 3 tsp now. I guess that would be 120 ppm, is that right??

[openbahr]

ok,

I suspected that the bleach I was using was not 6% so I ran out and bought the good stuff 6% clorox

and re did test with 3 tsp. outcome was a very purple test strip. so thats good

then I re-did the 2 tsp test and again FC looked good.

so now I am trying 1 tsp gonna re-test at 10:20 am

will post result

mike

[openbahr]

ok,

I suspected that the bleach I was using was not 6% so I ran out and bought the good stuff 6% clorox

and re did test with 3 tsp. outcome was a very purple test strip. so thats good

then I re-did the 2 tsp test and again FC looked good.

so now I am trying 1 tsp gonna re-test at 10:20 am

will post result

mike

1 tsp was not enough.. trying 1.5 tsp now will post result at 11am

[openbahr]

another question I have is, since i added 6lbs of stablizer into the skimmer about a week ago and the readings still have not come up

should I add more or will that run a risk of eventually having too much? I know the only way to lower stablizer is to drain pool.

also, if this 1.5 tsp test works I suppose thats about 60 ppm, so how much would that equate to for my 23,000 gal pool? about 22.5 gallons??

[openbahr]

another question I have is, since i added 6lbs of stablizer into the skimmer about a week ago and the readings still have not come up

should I add more or will that run a risk of eventually having too much? I know the only way to lower stablizer is to drain pool.

also, if this 1.5 tsp test works I suppose thats about 60 ppm, so how much would that equate to for my 23,000 gal pool? about 22.5 gallons??

ok, the 1.5 tsp worked!! now I figure thats about 22 gallons of bleach.

I called 2 pool stores and asked what % their liq chlorine was and, after puting me on hold and sounding very confused, they told me 99% and 90% that dosent sound right as richard (chem geek) was saying 12.5 % I am getting confused now. I hope someone answers me soon before I go and make things worse.

HELP!!

[openbahr]

just went to pool store and bought 12.5 gallons of 12.5 % chlorine (another 60 bucks)

yes it was 12.5% and stamped on the jug but the pool store still told me 99%---duh!

anyway I figure I need about 10 gal. but bought 12.5 just in case. will be adding in a little while.

will let you know how it turns out.

a little concerned about the stabilizer still being low. will this affect outcome??

[chem geek]

You're doing fine and have figured out roughly how much chlorine you need in your pool. I wouldn't worry about the CYA yet. Until you measure FC in your pool, the bacteria can still be there active and could just convert the CYA you add into more ammonia. So add the chlorine (I'd start after the sun goes down and try and do it mostly at night) and once you start to measure FC in your pool, then you can add some more CYA if you need to. You don't need that much -- 30 ppm should be fine to start with until you have <= 1 ppm FC drop overnight. Then you can raise your CYA higher (the reason to have the lower CYA until things get stable is that the same FC level will produce more active chlorine at lower CYA levels so should clear the pool faster). Though ammonia gets cleared in hours, it can take longer for other organics (partially oxidized CYA) to get cleared.

[openbahr]

You're doing fine and have figured out roughly how much chlorine you need in your pool. I wouldn't worry about the CYA yet. Until you measure FC in your pool, the bacteria can still be there active and could just convert the CYA you add into more ammonia. So add the chlorine (I'd start after the sun goes down and try and do it mostly at night) and once you start to measure FC in your pool, then you can add some more CYA if you need to. You don't need that much -- 30 ppm should be fine to start with until you have <= 1 ppm FC drop overnight. Then you can raise your CYA higher (the reason to have the lower CYA until things get stable is that the same FC level will produce more active chlorine at lower CYA levels so should clear the pool faster). Though ammonia gets cleared in hours, it can take longer for other organics (partially oxidized CYA) to get cleared.

Thanks so much for the response. I am so glad to know you have read my plans.

We are anticipating a big thunderstorm here in the south jersey area this evening an am wondering if allot of rain would affect it

[openbahr]

Added about 10-12 gallons of 12.5% liquid chlorine about an hour ago and I am not sure if it is too soon to test it but I did...

fc= very purple (I only have dip strips till my new test kit comes tomorrow) but purple is good.

I also tested ammonia and it looks like I wiped it all out!!

I will let the filter run all night and test again before work ~6am. I will try to post findings.

but if waiting an hour is sufficient, then Its looking good.

thanks to chem geek for teaching me the way to free myself from the pool store idiots.

I will from now on test and treat my pool based on my own knowledge (with help from poolspaforum of course)

[PaulR]

An hour with the pump on should be enough time for the chlorine to be distributed throughout the pool, so the test should be meaningful. When you get the K-2006 you'll be able to measure the FC precisely.

--paulr

[openbahr]

well, I guess its safe to say.. problem solved!

Thanks to this forum. I will be in charge of my own pool from now on. now on to research my next problem

my steps get an orange-ish stain on them and the pool store sells me a small $30 bottle of salt which i put in a sock and it

works great but disolves fast. and stain keeps coming back.

[openbahr]

An hour with the pump on should be enough time for the chlorine to be distributed throughout the pool, so the test should be meaningful. When you get the K-2006 you'll be able to measure the FC precisely.

--paulr

great! thanks paul

[openbahr]

You're doing fine and have figured out roughly how much chlorine you need in your pool. I wouldn't worry about the CYA yet. Until you measure FC in your pool, the bacteria can still be there active and could just convert the CYA you add into more ammonia. So add the chlorine (I'd start after the sun goes down and try and do it mostly at night) and once you start to measure FC in your pool, then you can add some more CYA if you need to. You don't need that much -- 30 ppm should be fine to start with until you have <= 1 ppm FC drop overnight. Then you can raise your CYA higher (the reason to have the lower CYA until things get stable is that the same FC level will produce more active chlorine at lower CYA levels so should clear the pool faster). Though ammonia gets cleared in hours, it can take longer for other organics (partially oxidized CYA) to get cleared.

well its 6am and it seems that I lost allot of the fc overnight.

the strip is allot less purple.

is that to be expected given my low cya levels or does it sound strange?

and since it has been a week since I added the cya to skimmer, is it safe to add more now without the danger of getting levels too high?

[PaulR]

Normally you should lose no more than 1ppm FC overnight. Sounds like you're not done with the shock process. It will be a lot easier to tell after the K-2006 shows up.

Re. CYA again I would wait until the K-2006 shows up and measure CYA with it before adding any more.

--paulr

[openbahr]

ok got my k-2006. when I opened it however the dpd powder was spilled all over, but I was able to salvage some.

here are the numbers as I read them:

cya=40 (which is confusing as the dip strips still read very low)

Ph= 7

tot. alk= 50 ppm

cc= .4 ppm

fc= .2 ppm

calcium hardness= ( drops didnt turn red it just stayed purple.. I guess that means that there is no CH

ammonia= 0ppm

I will try to get fc and ph up

I am wondering if the cya reading is accurate

[PaulR]

The K-2006 CYA test is designed for good light; outdoors on a clear day with your back to the sun, is the canonical description. But it is a VASTLY more accurate test than any strip.

Regarding CH, is it starting out red and turning to purple? I find mine is purple for a few drops before turning blue. Or if it's purple for a longer while, it might be interference from other things; in that case you can try putting in a few drops of R-0012 first, before doing the R-0010 and R-0011. But still count those first few drops of R-0012 in the final tally.

--paulr

[openbahr]

The K-2006 CYA test is designed for good light; outdoors on a clear day with your back to the sun, is the canonical description. But it is a VASTLY more accurate test than any strip.

Regarding CH, is it starting out red and turning to purple? I find mine is purple for a few drops before turning blue. Or if it's purple for a longer while, it might be interference from other things; in that case you can try putting in a few drops of R-0012 first, before doing the R-0010 and R-0011. But still count those first few drops of R-0012 in the final tally.

--paulr

just checked again this am.

Fc held overnight 4ppm

I added 2lbs of ph increaser lastnight which I

had sitting in my shed since I bought the pool

3 years ago. But when I tested this a.m

ph was still low 7.0

[PaulR]

FC holding--that's excellent news. The ammonia is gone.

Does the pH Increaser list the ingredients? If it's sodium carbonate, I would've expected about a 0.3 pH rise, given 2 lb in your 23000 gallon pool. Other possibilities:

- if 7.0 is as low as the test goes, pH might really be lower than that.

- CYA is somewhat acidic, if you're adding more that can drop pH. But CYA 40 is fine, you don't need more.

- Ditto trichlor.

IIRC the K-2006 comes with a "base demand" test, you can try using that to guess how much increaser to use. Or, borax (as in 20 Mule Team) is a more effective pH increaser than what the pool stores sell; use the Pool Calculator to figure out how much.

--paulr

[chem geek]

As for the DPD powder that spilled out all over, if it was like this in the box when you opened it, then call the place where you ordered the kit and have them send you a replacement. Otherwise, if you accidentally did that when opening it, order another container of DPD powder.

[openbahr]

Thanks guys.

The dpd powder was spilled already when I opened the kit and I did email

the site I bought it from.

I will try the borax.

Another thing, my calcium hardness seems low. Is this very important

to get up?

[openbahr]

just added a box and a half of borax.

how long do you have to wait till you test again?

also no word from pool website I bought the test kit from... if they dont respond soon and send me a new bottle of the dpd powder

I may have to give them a poor review here.

[openbahr]

just added a box and a half of borax.

how long do you have to wait till you test again?

also no word from pool website I bought the test kit from... if they dont respond soon and send me a new bottle of the dpd powder

I may have to give them a poor review here.

Ph looks good!!

[chem geek]

If your pool is vinyl and has no exposed grout from tile or any other plaster-like surface touching the water, then you don't need to worry about the Calcium Hardness (CH) level; that is, you don't need to increase it. If it's too high, then you could still get scaling. If you have plaster or fiberglass, then use The Pool Calculator to calculate the saturation index and increase the CH as needed after all other water parameters are where you want them.