Tired Of Cya - Changing Method

[ThomasSE]

Hi folks.

Ok, now I had it with dichlor in my tub, my water is ~2 months old and just checked my CYA, over 80 (using Lamotte ColorQ pro)

I want to switch to Nitros/Chemgeeks way, Dichlor/Bleach.

Problem is, I'm not in the US so I don't now what to buy here(Sweden). Is it ordinary Chlorine?

If a buy a bottle and try to translate the ingredients on it to english, is there someone here that can check if we have the same stuff overhere as you have in the US? So I don't put funny stuff in my tub

I have a weak memory that Sweden banned "pure" chlorine to ordinary folks due to some environment issue..but I'm not sure..

[polyvue]

Hi folks.

Ok, now I had it with dichlor in my tub, my water is ~2 months old and just checked my CYA, over 80 (using Lamotte ColorQ pro)

I want to switch to Nitros/Chemgeeks way, Dichlor/Bleach.

Problem is, I'm not in the US so I don't now what to buy here(Sweden). Is it ordinary Chlorine?

If a buy a bottle and try to translate the ingredients on it to english, is there someone here that can check if we have the same stuff overhere as you have in the US? So I don't put funny stuff in my tub

I have a weak memory that Sweden banned "pure" chlorine to ordinary folks due to some environment issue..but I'm not sure..

Not sure what "pure" chlorine consists of. Mixed with water any type of chlorine will produce Hypochlorous acid.

Bleach or liquid chlorine = sodium hypochlorite

Dichlor (and Trichlor) are chlorine compounds that introduce cyanuric acid as well as chlorine into the water. In the US and likely elsewhere you can obtain CYA (under varying names: pool/spa conditioner, stablizer, cyanuric acid) that can be added separately. So you can slowly increase CYA in your spa by chlorinating with a compound such as DiChlor (see the Wikipedia links for chemical names) until the level of CYA is where you want it. Or add the CYA separately (usually, all at once) and use an unstablized chlorine source (bleach, liquid chlorine, pool chlorine) for ongoing sanitation.

If your CYA is already over 80 PPM don't add ANY Dichlor or CYA because it's already too high. Your spa shouldn't require that much CYA -- I believe the recommended level is about 20 ppm, so you probably want to drain the water and restart. With increasing amounts of CYA you'd need an increasing level of Free Chlorine to achieve adequate oxidation/sanitation. See the relationship in this chart.

[chem geek]

Nowadays, I usually recommend around 30 ppm CYA for a spa.

I'm sure you can get bleach in Sweeden. The trick will be to get something that isn't too weak and is unscented and doesn't have anything extra in it. Some info on chlorine bleach in Sweeden is here where you might recognize the names of some manufacturers. This link talks about some brands of bleach and stores that carry them.

[ThomasSE]

Nowadays, I usually recommend around 30 ppm CYA for a spa.

I'm sure you can get bleach in Sweeden. The trick will be to get something that isn't too weak and is unscented and doesn't have anything extra in it. Some info on chlorine bleach in Sweeden is here where you might recognize the names of some manufacturers. This link talks about some brands of bleach and stores that carry them.

Thanks for the answers.

Actually, I had a bottle of chlorine at home (doh)

But when I look att the ingredients it only says:

disinfectants <5%

And to avoid using it on silver, aluminum and non stainless steel.

Seems to be without scent (of course it smells chlorine )

Going to call the company that manufactures it tomorrow.

EDIT:

Found a more detailed info, does the below makes sense?

Substances:Sodium hypochlorite

Classifications:R31 C;R34 N;R50

w/w%:1-5

pH concentrated:13,2 ± 0,2

So if I understand correctly it contains Sodium hypochlorite in 1-5% concentration?

[chem geek]

Yes, you interpreted that correctly. It sounds like it's fairly weak chlorine. If you can see if you can get something with 6% or even 5.25% then that would be better. The high pH with low chlorine % means using this product will tend to make the pH rise faster since you are effectively adding more "excess lye" every time you use it. In the U.S., Clorox Regular unscented is the best since it is 6% Sodium hypochlorite and has a pH of 11.9 which means there is minimal excess lye in it. More typical off-brand Ultra bleaches have a pH of 12.5 which is OK. A pH of 13 is pretty high and a lot more excess lye. Even the 12.5% chlorinating liquid that I get from my pool store only has a pH of 12.5, but it's good quality chlorinating liquid.

[ThomasSE]

Yes, you interpreted that correctly. It sounds like it's fairly weak chlorine. If you can see if you can get something with 6% or even 5.25% then that would be better. The high pH with low chlorine % means using this product will tend to make the pH rise faster since you are effectively adding more "excess lye" every time you use it. In the U.S., Clorox Regular unscented is the best since it is 6% Sodium hypochlorite and has a pH of 11.9 which means there is minimal excess lye in it. More typical off-brand Ultra bleaches have a pH of 12.5 which is OK. A pH of 13 is pretty high and a lot more excess lye. Even the 12.5% chlorinating liquid that I get from my pool store only has a pH of 12.5, but it's good quality chlorinating liquid.

Thanks for the answer

Ok, called their customer service to get more exact numbers.

It's 3.63% sodium hypochlorite.

It's weak then, but if I don't find anything else do you think it's worth switching method? Or should I stick to "old method"?

Not sure what is worse, lowering PH with PH down all the time or get high CYA...

Going to a few supermarkets today, I've been told that they sometimes carry Clorox..

[chem geek]

That's up to you. Are you able to get boric acid in Sweeden or products like Proteam Gentle Spa? If you lower the TA a lot to around 50 ppm and you use Borates, then does use of this bleach still end up with the pH rising frequently? The main side effect of having to add the acid is a build up of salt -- if you use dry acid, then it's sulfates that build up; if it's Muriatic Acid, then it's chlorides that build up. These aren't a problem and don't affect the chlorine the way that CYA does.

Perhaps you could use a hybrid approach and alternate to split the difference. Again, up to you.

If you want to go a low chlorine route, you could use Nature2, or other product that puts out silver metal ions, along with non-chlorine shock (43% MPS).