Cloudy Water After Fresh Fill

[sandi]

Drained, cleaned, and refilled the spa (and filter) yesterday. Several months ago, I ordered pH+ online and the place shipped me something called Leisure Time pH Balance by mistake. They then shipped the right stuff and said I could keep the pH balance so I decided to use it on this fresh fill. Following the directions on the bottle, I did not add calcium booster, got the pH between 7.0 and 8.0, and then poured the liquid in. The spa was back up to temp by bedtime last night and shut down. Everything looked fine. This morning, when I opened the lid, the water was cloudy and there was a film floating on the surface!!!! I have adjusted the filtering cycle from 2 hours (where we normally keep it) to 4 hours to see if this helps and it is filtering now. Could the pH balance have caused the cloudiness?? More importantly, is there a way to get rid of the cloudiness without adding a bunch of other stuff or without draining and refilling?????

Sandi

[The Pup]

I believe the cloudiness is a symptom of hard water...what was your Total Hardness before you added the Leisure Time pH Balance?

For hard water applications, you would use Leisure Time "Balance +" to "lock-in" you pH for 3-4 months. I have 4 containers of it that I received with my spa and I have not had the courage to use it yet.

When I was at the local spa dealership, someone had the same problem with using the pH Balance product (we live in the high desert with slightly hard alkaline water), and the dealer recommended a drain and refill. I also believe the instructions warn the user to use the "Balance +" product for hard water applications.

If you can wait a few weeks...I would be interested to know if the cloudiness dissipates through normal filtering.

[sandi]

I believe the cloudiness is a symptom of hard water...what was your Total Hardness before you added the Leisure Time pH Balance?

For hard water applications, you would use Leisure Time "Balance +" to "lock-in" you pH for 3-4 months. I have 4 containers of it that I received with my spa and I have not had the courage to use it yet.

When I was at the local spa dealership, someone had the same problem with using the pH Balance product (we live in the high desert with slightly hard alkaline water), and the dealer recommended a drain and refill. I also believe the instructions warn the user to use the "Balance +" product for hard water applications.

If you can wait a few weeks...I would be interested to know if the cloudiness dissipates through normal filtering.

Since I always have to add calcium booster on a refill, I didn't even bother to test the total hardness before adding the pH Balance - guess I should have. I read on the bottle about using the pH Balance + for hard water but didn't figure it applied to me - I have never thought of our water as being esp. hard. Anyway, I added clarifier and extended the filtering cycle - the water is clear right now (the spa has been filtering for about 5 hours). When it's finished filtering this afternoon, I'm going to pull the filter and clean it again. I'm definitely not at the drain and refill point yet! I'll post again later.

Sandi

[Nitro]

Leisure Time pH Balance contains Boric Acid and Sodium Carbonate. The Boric Acid is used to add Borates to your tub, and is helpful in reducing pH drift. However, Sodium Carbonate (aka Washing Soda, Soda Ash) will RAISE your pH. I believe the purpose is to bind to the Hardness (Calcium & Magnesium) in the water to prevent scaling. If your water is not hard, I guess it's kind of pointless.

Have you checked your pH? Your water is probably cloudy because your raised your pH too high. If so you'll need to add acid to bring it down.

In the future, forget using Leisure Time pH Balance it's too expensive. Add borates to your tub using a product called Gentle Spa. It's pH balanced and will not raise your pH. The other route which is even cheaper is to use plain old 20 Mule Team (Borax), and acid to counter balance it.

[sandi]

Leisure Time pH Balance contains Boric Acid and Sodium Carbonate. The Boric Acid is used to add Borates to your tub, and is helpful in reducing pH drift. However, Sodium Carbonate (aka Washing Soda, Soda Ash) will RAISE your pH. I believe the purpose is to bind to the Hardness (Calcium & Magnesium) in the water to prevent scaling. If your water is not hard, I guess it's kind of pointless.

Have you checked your pH? Your water is probably cloudy because your raised your pH too high. If so you'll need to add acid to bring it down.

In the future, forget using Leisure Time pH Balance it's too expensive. Add borates to your tub using a product called Gentle Spa. It's pH balanced and will not raise your pH. The other route which is even cheaper is to use plain old 20 Mule Team (Borax), and acid to counter balance it.

After 6 hours of filtering, the water is clear but there is still some "film" floating on the water. Nitro, both pH and TA are very high just as you predicted. I'll work on getting the pH down and will continue rinsing the filter each day for the next week and hopefully the film will disappear. Trust me, I won't be using this stuff again - wouldn't have used it this time except, as I said, it was shipped to me by mistake and, since it was just sitting here, I thought I'd try it. Thanks for the input/advice.

Sandi

[chem geek]

Leisure Time pH Balance contains Boric Acid and Sodium Carbonate. The Boric Acid is used to add Borates to your tub, and is helpful in reducing pH drift. However, Sodium Carbonate (aka Washing Soda, Soda Ash) will RAISE your pH. I believe the purpose is to bind to the Hardness (Calcium & Magnesium) in the water to prevent scaling. If your water is not hard, I guess it's kind of pointless.

Boric Acid is slightly acidic (near pool pH) so the sodium carbonate is probably in small quantities to compensate for that and be relatively pH neutral. So Leisure Time pH Balance Plus sounds similar to Gentle Spa.

[The Pup]

Leisure Time pH Balance contains Boric Acid and Sodium Carbonate. The Boric Acid is used to add Borates to your tub, and is helpful in reducing pH drift. However, Sodium Carbonate (aka Washing Soda, Soda Ash) will RAISE your pH. I believe the purpose is to bind to the Hardness (Calcium & Magnesium) in the water to prevent scaling. If your water is not hard, I guess it's kind of pointless.

Have you checked your pH? Your water is probably cloudy because your raised your pH too high. If so you'll need to add acid to bring it down.

In the future, forget using Leisure Time pH Balance it's too expensive. Add borates to your tub using a product called Gentle Spa. It's pH balanced and will not raise your pH. The other route which is even cheaper is to use plain old 20 Mule Team (Borax), and acid to counter balance it.

After 6 hours of filtering, the water is clear but there is still some "film" floating on the water. Nitro, both pH and TA are very high just as you predicted. I'll work on getting the pH down and will continue rinsing the filter each day for the next week and hopefully the film will disappear. Trust me, I won't be using this stuff again - wouldn't have used it this time except, as I said, it was shipped to me by mistake and, since it was just sitting here, I thought I'd try it. Thanks for the input/advice.

Sandi

I would be interested to know how well the water responds to your attempts to lower pH...since the "pH Balance" product is designed to lock-in your pH.

[Nitro]

Boric Acid is slightly acidic (near pool pH) so the sodium carbonate is probably in small quantities to compensate for that and be relatively pH neutral. So Leisure Time pH Balance Plus sounds similar to Gentle Spa.

I don't know the percentages, but I do remember reading other members having issues(raising pH) with using this product. I wonder what the actual pH is though.

[sandi]

Boric Acid is slightly acidic (near pool pH) so the sodium carbonate is probably in small quantities to compensate for that and be relatively pH neutral. So Leisure Time pH Balance Plus sounds similar to Gentle Spa.

I don't know the percentages, but I do remember reading other members having issues(raising pH) with using this product. I wonder what the actual pH is though.

I was finally able to get the pH down but it required adding a lot more pH down than I would normally have to add (8 Tbs. instead of 1) b/c of the pH balance stuff. The water is now crystal clear and there is no more film floating on the top. My TA is still high but I seem to recall reading on the forum that, as long as the pH was good, not to worry about TA unless the water was cloudy or there was evidence of scale. Is this correct or should I get the TA level down? I don't have a product to lower TA - have never had to do it before. What do I buy - is it just called TA down?

Sandi

[Nitro]

I was finally able to get the pH down but it required adding a lot more pH down than I would normally have to add (8 Tbs. instead of 1) b/c of the pH balance stuff. The water is now crystal clear and there is no more film floating on the top. My TA is still high but I seem to recall reading on the forum that, as long as the pH was good, not to worry about TA unless the water was cloudy or there was evidence of scale. Is this correct or should I get the TA level down? I don't have a product to lower TA - have never had to do it before. What do I buy - is it just called TA down?

Sandi

If your TA is high (>100) then your pH will rise as soon as you turn on the jets/air and start using the tub. What is your TA now?

Read the Water Balance section in my quide below for more info. Then read the Lowering TA link on how to lower your TA.

[sandi]

I was finally able to get the pH down but it required adding a lot more pH down than I would normally have to add (8 Tbs. instead of 1) b/c of the pH balance stuff. The water is now crystal clear and there is no more film floating on the top. My TA is still high but I seem to recall reading on the forum that, as long as the pH was good, not to worry about TA unless the water was cloudy or there was evidence of scale. Is this correct or should I get the TA level down? I don't have a product to lower TA - have never had to do it before. What do I buy - is it just called TA down?

Sandi

If your TA is high (>100) then your pH will rise as soon as you turn on the jets/air and start using the tub. What is your TA now?

Read the Water Balance section in my quide below for more info. Then read the Lowering TA link on how to lower your TA.

Nitro,

Followed your directions for lowering TA but overshot the goal (too impatient) and got the pH too low. Then I ran out of test strips (I know you think they're worthless but I've been using them for 2 years with no problems). So, I had to wait til I could get to the local spa place to buy more strips and have now added pH+, a little at a time, until I have the pH and the TA where they normally are. By now, I guess I have completely negated what the pH balance stuff was supposed to do. Bottom line, in the future, I'm not worrying about a product to buffer the pH. I'll just do what I've always done - fill, get the calcium hardness right, fine tune the TA/pH, use dichlor for a few weeks, then switch to bleach. Thanks for the help.

Sandi

Sandi

[squidly]

Sandi,

I had the exact same thing happen over the weekend. I tried a pH hold product for the first time and

it threw my balance out of whack and made the water cloudy. Oddly enough, I added calcium to bring the CH up to 160 ppm. Then within 24 hours, it was down to 120, so I added more calcium and now it's down to 90.

I'm done foolin' with that part, but I still haven't resolved the cloudy water issue. I cleaned the filter and added Seaclear, but no luck. Bottome line: I too will never use a pH hold product again.

[chem geek]

Sandi,

I had the exact same thing happen over the weekend. I tried a pH hold product for the first time and

it threw my balance out of whack and made the water cloudy. Oddly enough, I added calcium to bring the CH up to 160 ppm. Then within 24 hours, it was down to 120, so I added more calcium and now it's down to 90.

I'm done foolin' with that part, but I still haven't resolved the cloudy water issue. I cleaned the filter and added Seaclear, but no luck. Bottome line: I too will never use a pH hold product again.

It sounds like the pH hold product you are using is a phosphate buffer as that will tend to precipitate and reduce the amount of calcium. That is not the same thing as the borates which do not affect calcium at all.

[squidly]

Ahh, I see. I didn't know there was a difference between that and Gentle Spa that Nitro recommends.

I suppose adding the calcium is what's causing the cloudy water. I'll keep hosing off my filter and

see if that takes care of it. Thanks!

[chem geek]

Ahh, I see. I didn't know there was a difference between that and Gentle Spa that Nitro recommends.

I suppose adding the calcium is what's causing the cloudy water. I'll keep hosing off my filter and

see if that takes care of it. Thanks!

If you add a phosphate buffer to water that has calcium, it will get very cloudy since it will precipitate calcium phosphate. Yes, you should eventually be able to get rid of it, but it's a bit of a pain. Raising the pH will precipitate more; lowering the pH will dissolve more of it.

[squidly]

I ended up draining the spa tonight because the water was so cloudy. I should've taken a picture. There was calcium everywhere...coated on the walls and deposits of it on the seats. I cleaned, refilled and did my quickest balance to date. Then I added some Gentle Spa that I got from a local store. It smells good and it didn't turn my water cloudy! Now I just have to wait for my sanitizer to come down to acceptable levels. It's been a week since I last used it and that's too long.