Large Rectangular Pool - Gunite Or Vinyl?

F=MA · February 13, 2009

Hello all...thanks in advance for your opinions and expertise.

Home is in the greater Cincinnati area. Lot is one acre, wooded, with lots of space for pool and patio. Home values in our subdivision vary from about $250,000 on the low end, to about $500,000 on the upper end. Ours is near the upper end of that range. I include this information only to help gauge the level of investment in a pool a property such as ours warrants.

Wife wants to swim laps. I'm more interested in having enough width for multiple family members and guests to splash around in. Thought we'd look into fiberglass with a swim jet, but to be honest, after staking out a 16X40 space in the backyard adjacent to the house, it looks ridiculously small (I know...nice problem to have). It seems fiberglass is out of the equation as a result.

We plan to stay in this home for another ten to maybe twenty years.

We would like a rectangular shape, as low maintenance is a very high priority for us, and an automatic pool cover is mandatory to get me to sign off on this.

A couple of years ago we had a 20x60 vinyl pool quoted at about $75k with a large patio area, cover, etc. We were surprised at the cost, as we had expected it to come in at closer to $55k, so we let that plan lie dormant.

A month or so back, we got an estimate from a gunite builder for 18x50, with features comparable to the original 20x60. Excluding water features, the rough estimate came back at about $100k.

I've searched this and another pool forum to educate myself as best I can. I am concerned with throwing $100k into a project that may crack, may be more maintenance intensive (acid washing, re-plastering), rougher on the feet (?), and perhaps too large an investment for a property in our location (I'm not interested in owning the most expensive property in the area).

On the other hand, would a 20X60 pool in vinyl be "too cheap" for the property? I hope that makes sense.

It seems like fiberglass wins hands down in the maintenance aspect...assuming it is installed correctly...though we can't get the size we'd like in fiberglass. Vinyl seems to win in the "cost-effective" category if one can expect to get 7-10 years out of a liner, and assumning gunite needs to be replastered every ten years as well.

Given the above, and assuming cost isn't an obstacle, what are your thoughts on gunite vs. vinyl?

Do either construction method seem to do better with property resale value? It seems there may be more "prestige" with gunite, but I really don't care much about that.

The frost line here is about thirty inches deep. What is the probability a gunite pool will crack...and crack beyond economical repair?

I'd strongly prefer to not spend more than a few minutes each week maintaining the pool. Which of the two should I expect to be lower maintenance?

How often does this acid washing need to be done to a gunite pool on average assuming chemistries are reasonably well controlled?

Is ten years a reasonable expectation for lifespan of plaster on a gunite pool?

Once a gunite pool is replastered, will it look "brand new", as a vinyl pool with a new liner would?

I know there are a lot of questions there, but the more I read these forums, the more questions I have.

Thanks again in advance for any thoughts/opinions/suggestions you have to share. For those who own, or have owned either gunite or vinyl pools, I'd love to read about your experiences.

4serendipity · February 13, 2009

Great post - get your notepad and pencil ready!

This is one of the most often asked questions - which type of pool to buy - vinyl, concrete or fibreglass. You can read the fourty page tutorial that I have written on this exact subject in my signature - but I will try to answer your questions as they relate to your specific situation:

A gunite pool may crack, but a fibreglass pool may twist, buckle or sink. A vinyl pool could leak or collapse...

A vinyl pool is best suited to cold weather climates where fibreglass does very well in extreme heat. Concrete pools seem to survive almost anywhere but require specific care and construction to do so. When people say that a concrete pool will crack in cold weather they are usually referring to the interior finish of the pool, not the structure of the pool. The interior surface of a concrete pool is usually a 3/4" thick specialty cement that is either very dense or chemically altered to be waterproof. This interior surface can crack if left exposed to winter conditions. Most often the cracking will begin as crazing and develop into spider cracks over time. The expexted lifetime for a concrete pool interior finish is about 10 to 15 years before most of the mortar is washed away leaving a rough and porous surface. In cold weather climates expect that number to be close to 7 to 10 years. You could eliminate this problem by installing tile on the interior surface of the pool however this is a costly upgrade north of $25,000 where I am located, but tiles do very well in cold weather as they will not crack from being exposed to elements like plaster will.

Both vinyl liner pools and fibreglass pools lack curb appeal for home buyers which can have a negative impact on potential buyers. They pools themselves are generally fine, with each having its own place in the market. Given the size that you are looking for, I would think a fibreglass pool would be too expensive since you will still have the stigma of it not being a concrete pool. If you want to save money go all the way and look for vinyl liner pool contractors with a TON of experience as that will be a very heavy liner. Most vinyl pool companies never see a pool larger than 20'x40' so look to the experienced ones.

You could also add a concrete coping with an encapsulated track which will allow you to have an automatic safety cover as well the cosmetic appeal of a concrete canteliever on the pool. Vinyl pools with this concrete coping upgrade (another costly one) look like concrete pools when you see them. You could choose a no border, tile print on your liner to really give the effect of a tiled concrete pool while skimming your overall budget down.

In regards to acid washing concrete pools, this is a half day job that needs to be performed once every five years or so on well balanced pools to keep them looking clean. Too much acid will strip the mortar from the interior surface and cause premature leakage.

I hope this information is helpful.

S

F=MA · February 13, 2009

Great post - get your notepad and pencil ready!
This is one of the most often asked questions - which type of pool to buy - vinyl, concrete or fibreglass. You can read the fourty page tutorial that I have written on this exact subject in my signature - but I will try to answer your questions as they relate to your specific situation:

A gunite pool may crack, but a fibreglass pool may twist, buckle or sink. A vinyl pool could leak or collapse...

A vinyl pool is best suited to cold weather climates where fibreglass does very well in extreme heat. Concrete pools seem to survive almost anywhere but require specific care and construction to do so. When people say that a concrete pool will crack in cold weather they are usually referring to the interior finish of the pool, not the structure of the pool. The interior surface of a concrete pool is usually a 3/4" thick specialty cement that is either very dense or chemically altered to be waterproof. This interior surface can crack if left exposed to winter conditions. Most often the cracking will begin as crazing and develop into spider cracks over time. The expexted lifetime for a concrete pool interior finish is about 10 to 15 years before most of the mortar is washed away leaving a rough and porous surface. In cold weather climates expect that number to be close to 7 to 10 years. You could eliminate this problem by installing tile on the interior surface of the pool however this is a costly upgrade north of $25,000 where I am located, but tiles do very well in cold weather as they will not crack from being exposed to elements like plaster will.

Both vinyl liner pools and fibreglass pools lack curb appeal for home buyers which can have a negative impact on potential buyers. They pools themselves are generally fine, with each having its own place in the market. Given the size that you are looking for, I would think a fibreglass pool would be too expensive since you will still have the stigma of it not being a concrete pool. If you want to save money go all the way and look for vinyl liner pool contractors with a TON of experience as that will be a very heavy liner. Most vinyl pool companies never see a pool larger than 20'x40' so look to the experienced ones.

You could also add a concrete coping with an encapsulated track which will allow you to have an automatic safety cover as well the cosmetic appeal of a concrete canteliever on the pool. Vinyl pools with this concrete coping upgrade (another costly one) look like concrete pools when you see them. You could choose a no border, tile print on your liner to really give the effect of a tiled concrete pool while skimming your overall budget down.

In regards to acid washing concrete pools, this is a half day job that needs to be performed once every five years or so on well balanced pools to keep them looking clean. Too much acid will strip the mortar from the interior surface and cause premature leakage.

I hope this information is helpful.

S

Thanks for the detailed reply. We do intend to use concrete coping with track underneath for the automatic cover.

I'll check out your tutorial for more information.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

LinerMFGr · February 17, 2009

I've been on the manufacturing end of the vinyl liner industry for over 12 years, so my opinion is certainly skewed, but here it is anyway:

Let me start by pointing out a few things that may have been over looked.

An automatic cover can be placed on any shaped pool. They do it by dropping a rectangular section of the deck, around the swimming pool, a few inches. The cover then rides in the track on the long sides of the rectangle.

There are a lot of high-end vinyl pool builders. The stigma of "vinyl is cheap" is quickly fading. One of our dealers in NY has a gallery on their website that can attest to that. www.coolpool.com as well as my website (just click on the samples without the black border). Keep in mind; the landscape of your back yard plays a larger roll in curb appeal than the type of pool you buy.

The other benefit to vinyl, which you may have touched on a bit, is that you get a brand-new looking pool when you replace the liner.

When shopping for a builder, any good builder should have a book of pools they have installed. Ask to see there work before you commit to anything.

Due to the weight of that sized liner you should definitely go for thicker wall material and thinner floor material (28 mil wall/20 mil floor). If you don't the weight of the liner hanging in the track before the vinyl is locked in place (via vacuum and water) will stretch the wall in the deep end to the point of premature degradation and deformation of the wall pattern.

Lastly, if you decide to go vinyl, I recommend vinyl covered stairs over fiberglass stairs for aesthetic purposes. International Swimming Pool is a manufacturer of steel walls for vinyl liners. They specialize in custom shapes and steps. Their website leaves much to be desired but they are a great company with a great product.

Good Luck

F=MA · March 13, 2009

Thanks LinerMFGr...sorry for the delay in responding.

Looks like the project will run about $35k less to do it in vinyl. Cost is not the only consideration, but I already know we're throwing money away on this project. Gunite doesn't seem to have an overwhelming advantage for our application, and in keeping with my desire to not own the most expensive property in the neighborhood, seems like overkill.

Our potential pool contractor has been in business for thirty five years, is well known in the area, and has great BBB ratings. They do gunite and vinyl construction, so I was able to ask questions from someone who would profit regardless which route I decided. The salesperson did not really come up with any compelling reasons to go with gunite for our particular application.

The step installation prior to liner installation is something included in the vinyl pool quote we recently got. I hadn't thought of that before, which seems much nicer than those white steps placed in the water.

I measured it out and found we're going to have a little over 1400 sqare feet in patio area....that gets expensive quickly!

LinerMFGr · March 13, 2009

I'm glad I could help--I'm sure you'll be very happy with your new pool. If you need help picking out a liner pattern you can go to our website--we have a page that explains the science behind pattern selection.

Also, please consider us when choosing a liner manufacturer. I'm not sure who your builder is, but if he isn't currently a Kayden dealer; we can set him up easily enough.

Take care and good luck,

Jeff Kayden

lulubelle · May 10, 2009

I live in Northern Ky and have a 20x40 inground vinly liner. The pool is 40 years old and I have had 4 liners. Very easy to take care of. Make sure you get an automatic pool cleaner that doesn't go thru your filter system. I have an Aqua Vac and it just died after 12 years.

quote name='F=MA' date='Feb 12 2009, 10:47 PM' post='74104']