So Are Both The Nature 2 Stick And Spa Frog Really Ripoffs?

[Soonerdal]

or do they really help cut down on the chemicals? Is it just as easy to maintain a spa without them?

[Yunus]

or do they really help cut down on the chemicals? Is it just as easy to maintain a spa without them?

I have the spa frog and I would say technically it cuts down on chemical usage. But that's not what your really asking. Your asking if its less expensive and it is not. While you might use less Bromine in a given time period the cost of the chemicals you do use are higher. It has taken me some getting used to but I like the spa frog even though it costs more because I don't have to think about adding Bromine when I get out of the tub. It is convenient but you pay for that convenience and you still have to do your weekly shock and anything else required.

[chem geek]

Neither the Nature2 nor Frog systems, at least the metal ion portion, reduce the amount of oxidizer that is needed cumulatively, though can reduce what is needed during a soak depending on the amount of risk you are willing to take. The ions just slowly kill bacteria (or prevent algae, mostly for pools), they do NOT oxidize bather waste (ammonia and urea from sweat and urine). They should mainly be seen as a supplement to sanitation, mostly so you are safer when soaking with low or no regular sanitizer, though technically they don't tell you to do that since you must have a sanitizer at all times for these products to be EPA approved (N2 allows for MPS to be used for sanitation, but at a high maintained level and only in the hot temperatures of a hot tub).

If you were to maintain a chlorine or bromine or baqua/PHMB/biguanide sanitizer at all times, then there would be no need for N2 or Spa Frog, but many people do not like soaking with sufficient sanitizer in the water, mostly due to the smell, so they soak with low levels (<= 1 ppm FC) so having silver ion in the water helps prevent uncontrolled bacterial growth, though it will not be a fast enough kill to prevent person-to-person transmission which is why you'll never see such a system used alone in a commercial/public spa.

Richard

[limulus]

No, I don't think they are a ripoff. They do cost you more overall, but I don't mind that. I use N2 in an all cedar tub along with an electronic ionizer that came with the tub. You have to add initial dichlor before you use the N2 cart and then maintain it with MPS or dichlor. I've been using 2 tsp of dichlor after each use but that gets the cya up. It was in the 60s this weekend and I changed our water yesterday. I'm either going to use the MPS method this time or switch to 6% bleach after I get my cya level to around 30. I have been very successful using N2 and keeping my chlorine around 0.5 PPM and I just feel better using a little dichlor after each use. For that reason, I'll probably start using bleach after a few uses and not dichlor.

[chem geek]

This link from the EPA about Nature2 is informative for those who think that the EPA approves use of a mineral ionizer product by itself without chlorine. I believe that Zodiac, who makes Nature2, may have received EPA approval for using their system with MPS at high spa temperatures more recently, but that's the only exception.

Zodiac Pool Care, Inc. must state on label that a registered chlorine product must be used in conjunction with the "Nature2 G45-VC40". The applicant's product is ineffective without the use of a registered chlorine product.

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2. Label must state that "Nature2 G45-VC40" cartridge be used with a registered chlorine product.

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4. The statement "Natural Mineral Purifiers" must be deleted. The product is not a purifier and the term natural is misleading. Chlorine must be used with this product for effectiveness.

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6. The statements "Patented mineral process controls bacteria", "Patented mineral process assists in killing bacteria and algae", "Kills bacteria", "Controls/kills/reduces/destroys bactera", "Specifically formulated to control pathogenic bacteria", and "Inhibits growth of [undesirable] bacteria", must be deleted or revised. Claims must be qualified. The term bacteria is too broad. This product will not control or kill all bacteria. The product assist in controlling bacteria when used with a registered chlorine product.

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9. Revise the statements "Kills 99.9999% of organisms in 30 seconds" and "Kills 99.9999% of organisms in 30 seconds in the presence of soil" to include the name of the organisms and an additional statement including the use of registered chlorine.:

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11. Delete the statement "A trace of silver (an excellent sanitizer) keeps pool sanitized and crystal-clear." Silver is not a water sanitizer.

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Richard

[tjbrew]

This link from the EPA about Nature2 is informative for those who think that the EPA approves use of a mineral ionizer product by itself without chlorine. I believe that Zodiac, who makes Nature2, may have received EPA approval for using their system with MPS at high spa temperatures more recently, but that's the only exception.

Zodiac Pool Care, Inc. must state on label that a registered chlorine product must be used in conjunction with the "Nature2 G45-VC40". The applicant's product is ineffective without the use of a registered chlorine product.

:

2. Label must state that "Nature2 G45-VC40" cartridge be used with a registered chlorine product.

:

4. The statement "Natural Mineral Purifiers" must be deleted. The product is not a purifier and the term natural is misleading. Chlorine must be used with this product for effectiveness.

:

6. The statements "Patented mineral process controls bacteria", "Patented mineral process assists in killing bacteria and algae", "Kills bacteria", "Controls/kills/reduces/destroys bactera", "Specifically formulated to control pathogenic bacteria", and "Inhibits growth of [undesirable] bacteria", must be deleted or revised. Claims must be qualified. The term bacteria is too broad. This product will not control or kill all bacteria. The product assist in controlling bacteria when used with a registered chlorine product.

:

9. Revise the statements "Kills 99.9999% of organisms in 30 seconds" and "Kills 99.9999% of organisms in 30 seconds in the presence of soil" to include the name of the organisms and an additional statement including the use of registered chlorine.:

:

11. Delete the statement "A trace of silver (an excellent sanitizer) keeps pool sanitized and crystal-clear." Silver is not a water sanitizer.

:

Richard

Ouch! The EPA really slapped Zodiac down on all their claims. It certainly was best for consumers not to think all they needed was this cartridge! I'm on my second fill of my new tub and am using Nature2 as a supplement and insurance. My wife and I don't care much for chlorine so I'm trying to keep it down around 1ppm. At this level inevitably it's going to dip to zero on occasion, and the N2 is a good backup. We also add a tbsp of MPS an hour before each soak to help oxidize bather waste. Mostly it's just the two of us. If I have guests in the spa, I make sure the chlorine level is a higher before the guests arrive and give it a good shock after. You never know how clean your guests are http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/style_im...icons/icon8.gif