Bullfrog Tadpole Review

[treynolds]

IMPORTANT EDIT: JANUARY 25, 2007

I just got a response from Bullfrog regarding replacement of the Delozone ozonator under warranty. I did not expect the ozonator to be under warranty, but was hoping to get a replacement at Bullfrog's wholesale cost. What's especially troubling is that the warranty for the spa is not transferable. PERIOD. Had I known this I would have purchased aa different spa. This may perhaps be common practice with Spa manufacturers to not transfer the warranty upon resale, but it's troubling nonetheless when dealing with a high-ticket item.

Let the buyer beware!

________________________________________________

I received a small cash settlement from an auto accident three years ago and wanted to do 2 things with my $9K: Take my wife on a road trip through the American SW and buy a spa for my back pain. (The lawyers got the lion's share of the $25K...)

Upon going to a few shops and cruising this board and others, I was dying of sticker shock. I just couldn't see dumping over half of my funds in a spa.

I had wet-tested a Bullfrog at a local dealer and liked the dealer and the interchangeaable JetPack system. The dealer wanted $4700 for the Tadpole 251 with tax and delivery (sales tax in Washington state is 8.9%) I'd also looked at Clearwater Spas, Marquis, Sonoma and Hotsrings.

It seemed like the Costco Platinum II tub had far more features for the dollar (despite disparaging comments here...) and I couldn't afford the others, so I was in a real quandry.

I was nearly ready to order the 251 when I spotted a 2 year-old Bullfrog on Craigslist, not more than an hour from my home.

I exchanged emails and set up a meeting. It turned out to be a Tadpole 361, a model UP from what I was looking at at the dealer. The lady wanted $3500 for the tub and I was able to get her down to $3000. She and her husband rounded up neighbors to help me get it on my utility trailer and I drove it home where it sat in my driveway for 4 weeks while an electrician friend helped with the wiring, etc. I thought, WOW!, I just saved $1700. Read on...

I ended up moving it myself to the back side of the house and the deck using my car and trailer and burned up my clutch in the bargain. All of a sudden, my $3000 hot tub with free wiring doesn't look like such a good deal after having to pay $1800 to have my Jetta TDI clutch replaced, but at 90K miles, it probably needed to be done anyway. The spa mover wanted $650.

After the usual "new tub" water issues the Tadpole has performed well. It's fairly quiet in operation and *should* be economical to operate: it's fully insulated and has a 5-3 taper top.

There is only one pump. Here's what the Tadpole 361 model number means:

3 - 3 interchangeable JetPacks

6 - Seating for 6

1 - 1 Pump

This tub came with the Mini Neck Blaster, Mini Clusterburst and the Gyro'ssage. The seating numbers in hot tubs are like sleeping positions in tents: you have to subtract two from whatever number is given for comfort. CAN you squeeze 6 people into a Tadpole 361? Well yeah, but who'd want to sit that close, unless you were Hugh Hefner with 5 Bunnies, and then we wouldn't be talking about a low-budget, used Tadpole spa, would we...

It is set up for 240V operation. I paid $100 for a Seimens spa panel, did the wiring myself and had a friend who's a licensed electrician do the final hookup.

There is no diverter valve. All jets run all the time. The large jets can be closed to force more water through those that remain open: very simple.

As Bullfrog states in their sales literature, most of the tubing is in the water BEHIND the individual JetPacks. This minimizes the number of penetrations in the base shell. It also helps to maitain the heat in the overall circulatory system as heat is not lost to air or foam outside the shell, but to the water behind the JetPack.

There is a water outlet behind the JetPack that helps to circulate the water in that area. I have had no problem with ill odors or slime behind the JetPacks. They are easy to change and swap-out once you know how.

The previous owners did NOT know how to take care of the chemistry. They hadn't used the spa much, and it was obvious why: it was so heavily chlorinated/brominated that the water burned their skin. The inside of the spa cover vinyl is heavily puckered/discolored and there was a heavy build-up of calcium scale on teh back of some of the jets, plus a calcium ring at the waterline. Most of this I have been able to remedy and or scrub away.

All in all, I still feel I got a good deal, based on the cost of a comparable new unit from the dealer. However, would I buy a Bullfrog product again? Would I buy another used tub? I'm not certain...

My TOTAL outlay for the tub, wiring (plus gifts for the electricians), extra filter and chemicals has been about $3500. That's about $2000 below what the dealer would have wanted for this model, but I've had some minor hassles and most likely have little or no warranty. At $4700 from the dealer, I would have had a new tub with undisputed warranty, free delivery and setup and my original clutch, albeit for a lesser model.

As for Bullfrog *specifically*, here's my opinion:

1. There are far more penetrations in the shell than they let on.

2. One changes the JetPacks far less than you might think.

3. The depth of the seats is not enough to immerse my shoulders without slumping away from the seat, which minimizes the effect of some of the jets. We're both tall. Deeper seats will be the main thing I look for next time around.

4. I thought that a lounge seat would be the cat's meow, but in reality I tend to float UP out of it too much to make it useful. It ends up being a cooling-off level.

5. Although the overall sound level is acceptible, the deck magnifies the noise of the pump.

6. The dealer where this particular spa was purchased is out-of-business and the dealer in my area has been less than helpful... Warranty: Don't know.

So, there ya go. Bullfrog has a nice concept in a crowded market. Their build quality seems to be good and the tub looks nice and performs well. However, I'm not sure that they're worth the price, even for their lower-cost, Tadpole line, of which there are only two models. I think that the versatility of the JetPacks is suspect, mainly due to their expense and the fact that most people will change them once and leave 'em.

Tony

[Altazi]

Hi Tony,

Thanks for the review & background story. If any new information arises, let us all know, please. Any pictures of your installation?

Regards,

Altazi

[Chas]

As for Bullfrog *specifically*, here's my opinion:

Excellant! This is good info, right from an owner. Thanks for putting this much effort into your post.

1. There are far more penetrations in the shell than they let on.

Yes, there are. I have looked at these tubs at national shows, and there are lots of penetrations. They claimed that most of them are above the water line though, which should help reduce leaks. Since the spas they pulled the jet packs out of were all empty, and they didn't mess with the full spas, I couldn't tell for sure. How about on your spa - are the larger pipes above the waterline? As to those pipes all being in the thinnest part of the insulation, and what effect that might or might not have on overall efficiency is anybody's guess.

2. One changes the JetPacks far less than you might think.

I got this from the factory reps at the shows. They said that most of their customers enjoyed the freedom to choose the jet packs at the time of purchase, and not change them out so much down the road. But if one seat/jet pack turns out to be a dud in their opinion, they might buy another one. Some dealers will even give you some discount if you trade, according to the factory guys, but I have no way to verify or disprove that one.

3. The depth of the seats is not enough to immerse my shoulders without slumping away from the seat, which minimizes the effect of some of the jets. We're both tall. Deeper seats will be the main thing I look for next time around.

Yes, that is a tough one. In your case you bought used, so you saved. But a new-tub shopper would be wise to try the spa wet to check for this very thing.

4. I thought that a lounge seat would be the cat's meow, but in reality I tend to float UP out of it too much to make it useful. It ends up being a cooling-off level.

I have found that most of our second-time buyers opt away from a lounger. They just don't always deliver on the promise of comfort, and they take up a lot of room. Yes, I get people in who wouldn't buy a spa without a lounger, and they just love the things. But in my stores, that has been the exception.

5. Although the overall sound level is acceptible, the deck magnifies the noise of the pump.

6. The dealer where this particular spa was purchased is out-of-business and the dealer in my area has been less than helpful... Warranty: Don't know.

So, there ya go.

[treynolds]

Most of the larger tubing is at water level, running around the periphery of the tub. BUT, just like any tub, even with Jet Packs, there are two "built-in" seats with 6 jets each.

So far, I've had no problem with leaks that I know of. The tub runs twice a day for its one-hour filter period. My wife does the bills and has not made mention of a huge jump in electricity, but then we're on a payment plan that averages-out our useage so our monthly payments are lower.

We DID wet-test one of the more expensive Bullfrog models (remember: ours is their discount "Tadpole" line). That model had several more Jet Packs, less built-in.

As for pictures of the installation, no need. It's nothing special, as the tub simply sits on our Trex deck. The tub is situated so that the top swings out over the edge of the deck, which saves deck space.

Tony

[Stevie]

Awesome post Tony and I'm sure that information will help many!

Enjoy the spa!

Steve

[treynolds]

IMPORTANT UPDATE:

Bullfrog warranty is NOT Transferable! It may be that this is just on the lower-priced Tadpole line, but here is the response I received from them...

"Mr. Reynolds,

Congratulations on your new Bullfrog Spa! Our factory warranty is non-transferable and therefore not valid on this particular spa. In addition, the ozonator does not carry a warranty on it. You can purchase a brand new ozonator but we require all of our parts and accessories be purchased directly through an authorized Bullfrog Spa dealer as we do not sell direct from the factory. I have listed the contact information below for the nearest authorized Bullfrog Spa Dealership to you.

Best regards,

Axxxxxx "

Tony

[Dr. Spa]

Is there a point?? Almost no spa manufacturers warranty, and for that matter any product warranty, is transferable.

You bought a USED spa. Did you ever ask about a warranty? Buyer beware? I would say buyer ask questions.

[flynner]

Not to mention he admitted that the previous owners had the water chemistry all screwed up.

I have a Bullfrog 331 and it is a great spa for me, I have called bullfrog directly with questions the dealer could not answer, they were polite and very helpful, and told me to feel free to call them anytime.

I love mine even more since I went from soft soak to chlorine.

Do not badmouth Bullfrog because you tried to save a few bucks and got screwed.

I move my jetpacks quite often just to get a different feel so don't speak for everyone when you say people do not move them around.

Edit,

I would not consider this a review of a bullfrog spa it is someone who did not do thier homework and expects bullfrog to pay for it.

[Richs100]

Treynolds:

Thanks for the good review. I found it well written and informative. I don't know a lot about the Bullfrog and thought you conveyed a lot of information about a fairly unique tub.

I also think you did a good job in pointing out one of the major pitfalls of buying a used tub......the ridiculous industry standard of non-transferable warranties. Imagine if automobile dealers tried a stunt like that!

IMOHO, the manufacturers should stand behind their products for the length of the promised warranty period, PERIOD. As a new tub owner, I feel it unnecessarily de-values my tub in the unlikely event I had to dispose of it. One of the reasons why I bought a tub from a major manufacturer was, in part, because of the warranty, and therefore I feel paid a premium for it. I don't understand why the manufacturer should get a bonus just because I may have to sell my tub before the end of the warranty. Just my two cents....

And in the "one step beyond" department, I also understand that there are some manufacturers who will void the warranty if the original owner moves the tub to a new residence. I don't think most consumers would even think about such restrictions. If the spa is portable, ITS PORTABLE.

Good luck with your tub and Enjoy.

[Chas]

I also understand that there are some manufacturers who will void the warranty if the original owner moves the tub to a new residence. I don't think most consumers would even think about such restrictions. If the spa is portable, ITS PORTABLE.

Be careful - this applies to just a very few tub makers. Very few -

Most name-brand tub makers post the entire warranty online for shoppers to review. I have been handing the entire text of the warranty in my stores for twenty years. It is hard to get out of my store without the document in your hand, and if you show interest and give me time, I will gladly go over it in detail. Most Watkins products have the full text right in the brochure, but I printed and offered the warranty for the other brands I have sold over the years.

No, most warranties do not transfer to a new owner. But that is the standard in the industry, and as Doc has said above it is the standard in most other industries as well. I bought a car from my father once - he had paid extra for an extended warranty. It did not transfer.

As far as major name-brand Portable spas, Marquis is the only one I know of who offers a transferrable warranty, and that is a selling point to some, not at all important to others.

So, I'm sorry this came as a surprise to the OP, and I understand Rich's concern, But do a bit of checking before you pull out the credit card and I don't think you'll have a problem.

[Trigger]

My TOTAL outlay for the tub, wiring (plus gifts for the electricians), extra filter and chemicals has been about $3500. That's about $2000 below what the dealer would have wanted for this model,

Even if you bought the tub from the dealer , you would have had to run the electrical, bought the chemicals and spare filters. Although the dealer may have saved you from putting in a new clutch . So your savings is actually a bit more than you calculated.

[Richs100]

I have been handing the entire text of the warranty in my stores for twenty years. It is hard to get out of my store without the document in your hand, and if you show interest and give me time, I will gladly go over it in detail. Most Watkins products have the full text right in the brochure, but I printed and offered the warranty for the other brands I have sold over the years.

Chas:

Once again, you impress the heck out of me. Are you sure you don't want to open an east coast branch of your dealership? Think of the air miles you could accumulate!