Water Transfer From Spa Via Water Valves?

[olarmy96]

I'm a new pool owner like a lot of folks here and purchased a home in the last 3 months with a pool and spa combination. Originally, the spa was unusable(automatically) because there was no check valve on the in floor cleaner booster pump. There are 3 in-floor cleaner heads in the spa. Pool guys came out, installed a check valve, and then the spa could be used and wouldn't drain down. I thought everything was fine, but intermittently at night with the equipment off the spa would drain down into the pool. Not every night, but maybe 50% of the time.

A few days ago, the spa started draining all the time when in use or not, except of course in pool mode when it overflows. In trying to isolate which area was responsible, I eventually turned off all equipment and closed all ball valves. This is in spa mode - pool drains and returns closed.

The water level still dropped. I believe this means it's transfering through the water valves. There's a set of 3 valves in a standard Paramount 12-valve system. I can hear gurgling sounds in the valves until the spa drops to pool level. The valves are installed close to the ground. They are above the pool level, but below the spa.

My question is how do I address this issue? I'll have professional service, but I want to make sure that they do the right thing. Is it just a matter of raising the valves up above the spa water level? Or, do I need check valves on all the valves lines?

Thanks for any help from the forum members.

[gulfstreampool]

I'm a new pool owner like a lot of folks here and purchased a home in the last 3 months with a pool and spa combination. Originally, the spa was unusable(automatically) because there was no check valve on the in floor cleaner booster pump. There are 3 in-floor cleaner heads in the spa. Pool guys came out, installed a check valve, and then the spa could be used and wouldn't drain down. I thought everything was fine, but intermittently at night with the equipment off the spa would drain down into the pool. Not every night, but maybe 50% of the time.

A few days ago, the spa started draining all the time when in use or not, except of course in pool mode when it overflows. In trying to isolate which area was responsible, I eventually turned off all equipment and closed all ball valves. This is in spa mode - pool drains and returns closed.

The water level still dropped. I believe this means it's transfering through the water valves. There's a set of 3 valves in a standard Paramount 12-valve system. I can hear gurgling sounds in the valves until the spa drops to pool level. The valves are installed close to the ground. They are above the pool level, but below the spa.

My question is how do I address this issue? I'll have professional service, but I want to make sure that they do the right thing. Is it just a matter of raising the valves up above the spa water level? Or, do I need check valves on all the valves lines?

Thanks for any help from the forum members.

I'm assuming your spa is raised above your pool. Valves( 2 way & 3 way) can leak so make sure that is not the issue. Ball valves rarely leak though. If you have glass block dividing the spa and pool, check the mortar bond and make sure no water passes this way. Last, check valves notoriously leak.

[olarmy96]

At first I thought it was a check valve, but then I also closed all ball valves at the same time. The spa is above the pool level. I'm fairly sure that the transfer is occuring in the Paramount 12-port water valves, as I hear water gurgling inside them even with all ball valves closed and the JVAs in spa mode and everything off. The gurgling in the Paramounts stops when the water evens out. This problem also doesn't happen every time, so I'm assuming that if the valve has rotated to a position where the spa floor cleaners aren't active, then the transfer doesn't happen.

When the pool service guys came out, they mentioned that the Paramount valves might be installed too low. Do you know the height they are supposed to be positioned at? The Paramount manual doesn't cover installation, as they assume a builder will install them.

Thanks for the feedback.

I'm assuming your spa is raised above your pool. Valves( 2 way & 3 way) can leak so make sure that is not the issue. Ball valves rarely leak though. If you have glass block dividing the spa and pool, check the mortar bond and make sure no water passes this way. Last, check valves notoriously leak.

[gulfstreampool]

At first I thought it was a check valve, but then I also closed all ball valves at the same time. The spa is above the pool level. I'm fairly sure that the transfer is occuring in the Paramount 12-port water valves, as I hear water gurgling inside them even with all ball valves closed and the JVAs in spa mode and everything off. The gurgling in the Paramounts stops when the water evens out. This problem also doesn't happen every time, so I'm assuming that if the valve has rotated to a position where the spa floor cleaners aren't active, then the transfer doesn't happen.

When the pool service guys came out, they mentioned that the Paramount valves might be installed too low. Do you know the height they are supposed to be positioned at? The Paramount manual doesn't cover installation, as they assume a builder will install them.

Thanks for the feedback.

I'm assuming your spa is raised above your pool. Valves( 2 way & 3 way) can leak so make sure that is not the issue. Ball valves rarely leak though. If you have glass block dividing the spa and pool, check the mortar bond and make sure no water passes this way. Last, check valves notoriously leak.

It just needs to be above water level a few inches. I use Paramount and a way to tell if the water module is bad is to look and see if any cleaning heads are sticking up all the time. This means water is going into that zone when it should'nt. I dont know if you have PCC 2000 or Pool Valet though.

[olarmy96]

I'm assuming you mean above the spa water level. Currently, the valves are installed above the pool water level, but below the spa water level.

[it just needs to be above water level a few inches. I use Paramount and a way to tell if the water module is bad is to look and see if any cleaning heads are sticking up all the time. This means water is going into that zone when it should'nt. I dont know if you have PCC 2000 or Pool Valet though.

[gulfstreampool]

I'm assuming you mean above the spa water level. Currently, the valves are installed above the pool water level, but below the spa water level.

[it just needs to be above water level a few inches. I use Paramount and a way to tell if the water module is bad is to look and see if any cleaning heads are sticking up all the time. This means water is going into that zone when it should'nt. I dont know if you have PCC 2000 or Pool Valet though.

Theres your problem.

[olarmy96]

I thought that I'd post a follow-up if anyone else has this potential problem. I actually called Paramount and they put me through to the technical support guy at home on his mobile. According to him, it doesn't matter what height the valves are installed, since there's a path to the pool through the water valve, the water will siphon to the lower level.

There needs to be a check valve on the source line(s) to the spa cleaner heads. If my spa has such a check valve, it must be underground, but I tend to think there isn't one. My module had one of the pistons stuck open which promoted a much faster transfer. If those pistons are closed, when the cleaner is off, then water still tranfers but very slowly.

The pool service guys added a check valve on the booster pump line that helped, but since it's downstream from the water valves it only closes one path. One valve further upstream could close both. I basically got ripped by someone who didn't know exactly what was going on.

It's no wonder that the company that originally built this pool went out of business.

Theres your problem.

[Chris W]

What part of the country are you in? I'm in Arizona, and other then Paddock Pools, not a lot of builters use the Paramount In-floor system. My pool was built with a PV3 system which I love. My pool builder merged with another builder out of California, but they still honor my warranty...... so far.

[natural1]

ahh... I was beat to it and you figured it out. I have had this problem before on a pool where the plumber put the check valve on the wrong port of a 5 port infloor cleaning valve. Seems as though you should be good to go!