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  1. Cadera Spa HawaiianLE Jet pump won't stop. Topside control panel won't stop it. Get double dashed lines on control panel after a few minutes. Turning off power overnight does not solve issue. Cycling power off and on several times quickly does not solve problem. Assistance/ideas appreciated. Thanks.
  2. The salt system it’s an unregulated device that’s actually a salt chlorine generator which works in conjunction with a titanium cartridge that breaks down salt to produce chlorine. You will pay a good amount of money for those cartridges plus for all the additional chemicals to get it to run. And because salt is so corrosive, you'll be replacing all kinds of parts and equipment prematurely. In a market where everyone tries to copy each other ideas, hence, so many trademarks and registered products, the Salt System is something that everyone but one manufacture agrees that its bad for the hot tub and enjoyability of it. I am not arguing that SALT WATER is bad for you. On the contrary, Salt Water has its own benefits but it works better on pool water because the temperatures are a lot lower. That is why you see so many salt water pools. The Salt Water System on a hot tub work above 95 degrees and its something that you will find very frustrating to deal with. You will either have too much chlorine or no chlorine at all and the logo flashes and system errors messages will drive you desperate. It can get to the point where you will be asked to put bleach in the tub just so you can get a chlorine reading. At the end, salt in your water accelerates the process of corrosion. Salt Water hot tub dealers love the system because they make a ton of money on repairs. The salt system life expectancy is about a year while a hot tub is can exceed 10 year. Most people get rid of the system months after getting it and there goes the whole reason why you choose them. A hot tub should ALWAYS be fun and easy to use. An good alternative is UV Light Systems. It is used on hospital, schools and during water botting process. If you have the option to add a LOW OUTPUT Ozone system next to the UV light you will be very happy. There is no reason to choose a spa base on salt system when you can get a more comfortable spa with better water quality and management. See for yourself.
  3. To fix a bogus heater limit error I finally replaced the Main PC board (Caldera #77089) on my 2004 Caldera Paradise Martinique, after having exhausted all other avenues--including replacing the heater unit. Finally, no more heater limit shutting down the heater (yay!). However, while Pump 1 can be started and run, Pump 2 does not start when the button on the Display panel is pressed. Pump 2 did work fine before replacing the board, and connecting the Pump 2 wires to the Pump 1 board tabs as a test proved that Pump 2 does still work. (There is a note associated with the 77089 board that "On 2002 and 2003 Models we reccomend [sic] you also replace Top Side Control on some models the old topside will not be compatible with the new board." The Martinique was introduced in 2004, so that should not apply to this.) Per the document that came with the 77089, jumpers JP1 and JP9 were set. Voltages were checked on the Pump tabs, showing 245V on Pump 1 (BLK->WHT) while it was operating with 116V going to ground on both the Pump 1 and Pump 2 BLK->GRN tabs. Checking the Pump 2 tab voltage never budged from Zero when pressing the Pump 2 button--not even for a moment. I've repeatedly tried to contact the company that sold me the board, and Caldera, and have gotten no response. So now I'm trying to determine whether I've got a (slightly) bad board, since all its other functions seem to be fine; or if there's another jumper somewhere that needs to be set; of if there's some other connection or whatever that needs to be done. The 77089 board is sold as a replacement for "all 2002-2008 Caldera Utopia and paradise Models," but it is not identical to the board it replaces. Other than a different JPx jumper setting though (where I followed the board's docs), everything on the old board corresponded to the new. Thanks for any advice or assistance, and please correct me if I appear to be misunderstanding anything. Plus I'll be happy to follow any diagnostics advice.
  4. I bought a house with a Caldera Spa (Series: Vacanza, Model: Marino, Serial: MRN2T1132). Any idea how much it is worth?
  5. I just obtained a Caldera Sarasota model from a neighbor, which I believe was manufactured in the late 1990’s. The filter cycle is set to run for 4 hours of every 12. The user manual says this can be adjusted, but doesn’t provide any information on how to change. Anyone know how to adjust the filter duration through the keypad for this old model? I’d like to adjust the runtime to either 2 or 3 hours.
  6. Looking at a Marquis Vector21 (V84), definitely a higher tier than initially intended, but price is ON PAR with entry level Caldera and HotSprings (Vanto. Rhythm, shocker!). Can anyone with experience confirm if $11,500+ is a good buy for Marquis V84 in SW Ontario? No matter how we look at it, other models with few accessories add up to nearly $12,000 so may as well splurge, right? Thanks in advance!
  7. Our panel has been acting up for a while and the last time I tried to adjust the temp it started flashing 4 dashes and the word power on the display panel. We just ordered a new panel which I know we needed anyway, but the new panel is still still flashing the same thing. We also replaced the high temp sensor but that didn't help. Can anyone offer advice? Thanks in advance.
  8. Hi all, We recently got a 2004 Caldera Spas Utopia Geneva from some friends, built a deck and had it wired up but I'm having a problem. After turning both the 30 and 20 amp breaker on, the spa starts up. The 'LIM OK' light comes on and the 'HTR OK' as well. The circulation pump starts working and after 5 minutes it goes into the auto clean routine. The air blower starts and runs for a minute but when Jet 2 turns on low it trips the 30 amp breaker after a second or so. If I manually start Jet 1 or 2 it trips near immediately. I released the union on top of both pumps and only found one to have a small amount of air in it. I know several have stated disconnect each component and then try but if the air blower and heater can start without tripping either the 30 or 20 could it be one of those? I'm just puzzled as to why both pumps would be bad. As a test the electrician bypassed the 30amp GFCI breaker and wired the 10AWG lines directly into the main 50amp feed coming into the subpanel. The pumps will run fine that way but it's not a permanent solution. Does this point to a GFCI issue? The load neutral is connected to the 30amp breaker. The only wiring deviation is a convenience GFCI outlet wired off the 20amp breaker. The electrican says he tried running it with that disconnected with no luck but I wasn't standing over his shoulder at that point. We know the tub was sitting for some time so the goal was to run it long enough to heat the water and then use a jet purge and drain afterward but if I can't get the jets to run without tripping. So that's not an option unless I go back to that 50amp GFCI bypass just for cleaning if that's recommended. I know you guys get a lot of random drop-in 'Help' questions but any advice or direction is helpful. At this point we have several thousand plus dollars into a non-working hot tub.
  9. We have a very small space - at most 7 x 7'. I am interested in a 2-3 person tub for our moderate climate home. I will use it the most (and maintain it, my husband is not as interested) and am average size with back, knee and shoulder/neck problems. A corner unit would fit best but am concerned about proper jet positions and if they are deep enough. Lucky to have well-reviewed dealers locally - but haven't found a filled corner unit to test. Considering Hot Springs, Caldera and Marquis. Grateful for your advice.
  10. Maybe someone can help. We lost power last week, not sure if that has anything to do with it. But hot tub was at 65 degrees the next day when it was set at 102. Any suggestions, no air stuck in the pipes. Heater on light is on , there are no error codes on the display. And hot tub will actually heat to about 74 degrees when the jets have been running for a while, but wont get any higher, and goes back down to 65 when you shut them off. Thinking maybe the heater just went or the hi limit sensor..yet no error codes. Any suggestions will help. Thanks a bunch
  11. I have a caldera Tarino hot tub. It is a 115 or a 230v model. When I received it from the dealer it had the 115 cord hooked up to it and I wanted it hooked up to 230v. How do I know that it is set up fully for 230v 50a and able to run the heater on high jet and not only on low. I also got it with speakers that are not hooked up does anyone know what I have to do to to make those work. I was told by the dealer I could by a Bluetooth adapter for it but I haven't found one that looks like it will work. And can I use the USB port located inside
  12. I'm down to these 3 manufacturers for my new hot tub, replacing a 12yr old Cal Spa. Wet tested all. Most concerned about Marquis being the smallest local shop. The debates over all foam or no foam for insulation is still a bit confusing. I'm looking for any pro's or con's with recent experience on any of these (warranty support, energy use, leaks, jet problems or other operational issues) Tubs being considered are J375 for Jacuzzi, Utopia for Caldera and Marquis Signature Epic. Thanks. Paul
  13. Replacing the Jet Pump motor on my 2004 Caldera Spa, and cannot get the pump section off of the motor. There doesn't seem to be any bolts/screw/nuts I can loosen to remove it.
  14. Hello everyone, we purchased a Caldera Geneva. The electrician came out today and asked us a bunch of questions we didn't anticipate. So we are looking for others input to make a good decision. We got the basic pro-lift cover, but were told the pro-lift IV, would give us more privacy from the neighbors. I was wondering if anyone has any advice/experience to offer? Also any advice on which direction for the recliner to face would be helpful. Thanks in advance!
  15. I have a 1999 Caldera Spa's Martinique. Yes, I know it's an old model, but I'm renting a house and it's permanently installed, so it can either be a swamp (as when I moved in) or a functional tub. It seems to work fine, but I have one problem and one question: Problem: the circulation pump kicks in for a minimum of 2 hours twice a day (4 hours total), and when it does, the heater kicks in as well. This is a problem because the minimum temperature on the spa is 80F, so for 4h a day it's running the heater to get from 60F (or whatever ambient is) up to 80F, even though I don't plan on using it for a week or maybe more. Is there any way to disable this? I imagine I'd have to mess with the logic control board... Question: I know that all of the functions work because I can test them (i.e. jets, filter, light, etc.) but the one thing I cannot test is the ozone generator (which I can see is installed). There is no error code being displayed, but that doesn't mean it is working. Does anyone know how I can check this? Thank you!
  16. Hello, We just received our brand new Caldera Salina spa yesterday and noticed that there were little puddles of water on the seats, and the cover was wet inside...Do they rinse it before they deliver it and that's a left over? Is it normal? I will call the dealer but want to know first if it is common Thanks!
  17. Hi! We are looking at the sundance Chelsee, J365 and Caldera Salina. They all have been quoted at aroud $9600-9700 except for the J365 that we could get for $9234 for a 2016 floor model. Those are supoosed to be sale prices. for president day week end. 1.They dont seem to be willing to negotiate really. Is that common? They all went down from the original price before we even said anything, but that's their final price and that's it. 2. Are those reasonable prices? 3. Is it correct to assume to going to a lower series (j200, sundance 680...) might end up being more expensive because of shorter warranty, lower quality insulation...?We mostly want a spa for relaxation and dont need all kind of fancy jets. just something comfortable 4. My husband is 6'2'' and the Chelsee felt a little tight for him. any experience with that? Thank you!! Trying to make a decision pretty soon!!!
  18. Hello, We recently started looking for a 5-6 persons hot tub. We have no experience and no idea what we're talking about but we're learning. We looked at jacuzzi, Caldera and Cal spas tubs. A sale person told us that Caldera was the best, and that we would not find any complaints about any model....we quickly find that to be wrong, even though it does seem to be a good brand.He then told us we could get the Geneva floor model for 10000, tax included, with cover, steps, delivery and so on...We went home trying to find what this spa goes for, but it's so hard to find prices anywhere!!!! It didn't seem like it would be an amazing deal from what we saw. Any opinion on that matter? and out of these 3 brands, which one would be the most reliable? Thanks
  19. My Caldera Geneva Spa is locked or at least there is a lock symbol on the control's display. I have unlocked temp and controls lock and everything works but the jets and associated bubbles. The manual does not state that there is another issue that can cause the spa to lock. This happened right after draining, cleaning and refilling the spa. Don't have the schematics or wiring diagrams to review although I am an electrical engineer by trade and can understand them. Spa is two years old. Any help is appreciated. BTW - I did turn all power off before draining and turned it back on when it was more than half way filled.
  20. Hi everyone: I am doing research like I do on everything and think I have narrowed it down to 2 manufactures. Caldera & Marquis They both seem like higher end brands and I am trying to find what the real differences are performance wise quality of pump, jets, maintenance and insulation since I live in New England. One thing that stands out is the Marquis in made in the USA, but they seems more expensive? I work in the manufacturing industry and appreciate products made here. If there is anyone out there that has some pros and cons of the 2 brands it would be greatly appreciated. I will wet test both at the end of the day but I tend to focus on how things are built and perform. I also wanted to mention this purchase is more for therapy than leisure. I do have achy knees and shoulders so if one has better aspects in that department it would be good to know. I am also looking at a cost of 8 to 10k. Thank you for any advise.
  21. I am new to this forum and I have been doing as much research as i can.(about 3 months) to research therapeutic hot tubs, it does not work so well. I go to the gym 5 days a week and know that a good tub will help by body repair. At this point I am leaning towards Caldera Makena. I definitely want a lounger but really want enough quality jets to hit my whole body. As more of you experienced ones out there know, more jets are not necessarily better. There are a lot of manufactures and styles out there is is very tough to choose. I am an engineer so i will research a lot. Any input is helpful! The new guy!
  22. Hello and thank you in advance for your help. We are purchasing a new hot tub - not our first, but the first time we've purchased ourselves. We are trying to stay under $7000. Powerful jets are my number one concern because I use the tub for serious therapy. I've been looking so far at Caldera - the Vacanza Series, Vanto ($6500 quote), fits our budget but I'm a bit concerned about power and its warranty. The Bullfrog is intriguing - I realize I'll never buy new jetpacks, but it is nice to start with a customized tub (I have a $7500 quote on the R6) I'm hoping to go look at the Dimension One tubs tomorrow but I have no idea if any are in my price range. I had thought the Costco Evolution and/or Divine series tubs looked good, but after reading some posts here I'm not so sure. One local company sells Riviera Spas - haven't been there yet. Also, we need to have at least one side at 84" or less due to space restrictions. Being a small-sized family (all under 5'4") a lounger is probably useless for us - I know our last Caldera spa lounger went unused. Any suggestions/ comments are much appreciated.
  23. Hi everyone. This is my first post, but I have spent hours reading this forum as well as a lot of other hot tub/spa information online. I'll tell you; my head is spinning! We have been overwhelmed with the different spas and options out there. Why I asked for help asap is because we looked at a used hot tub this evening & we need to let the guy know tomorrow whether or not we want to take it. First though, I'll give you some background information. Sorry, but this post will be long. We are new to hot tubs, so we are coming at selection from a newbie perspective. The main reason we want/need a hot tub is for my husband. He is 6'5, 40 years old and has early osteoarthritis. He is in a lot of pain after work if he walks or stands alot. He does residential and commercial construction - all aspects. So the hydrotherapy aspect is what we need it for. Money is tight - I'm forgoing getting a car and taking the bus because he needs a hot tub more. Doctor recommended it years ago, but we've never gotten around to getting one. We also have a small yard, but decided we can put it on the side of the house. The tub would probably be used every day by my husband and occasional use from myself and my 11 & 17 year old sons. We live in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, and have very cold winters. It's not too humid here since we're in the prairies. I have psoriasis and occasional bacterial skin infections, so I would want a system that doesn't make it worse. We don't travel, so looking after it regularly would be no problem. We know we want a lounger and a cool down seat. Because my husband is so tall - 6'5, & my 17 yr old is 6'6, a tub with a long lounger is best. We've sat in all these tubs I'll list below, but he has only wet tested the used Down East spa so far. Warranty is very important to my husband, so we're looking for a comprehensive package, & my husband is more partial to insulation that is easy to get to - not the sprayed in full foam. UPDATED: We've decided not to go with #1 -the used tub. Moving it would be a hassle & we'd prefer to have a warranty. Also a no for #2 - the Sundance Peyton. 7 feet isn't large enough for my tall family. A few inches extra definitely makes a difference. NO for #3 the Ciara - instead possibly the Olympus - I'll type over the Ciara specs in #3. Same with #6 - the Bullfrog spa. The price was just too high. Question though, is 2 - 2 hp pumps enough? That's what the Makena has, and for the price, we thought it would have higher hp. (Prices are before tax) 3) http://www.jetsensationhottubs.com/#!olympus/cpyc http://alpsspas.com/models/olympus/ Alps spa Olympus model: 1st link is to the actual Winnipeg distributor and the 2nd link is to the Alps line. The warranty on it is pretty good. This tub larger and deeper, has ozone and 2 6hp pumps. The price for $7250 is a great deal. It has 3 pumps, ozone, full lighting package including cup holders and a stereo system. Comes with a breaker panel & she would give us a deal on cover lifter and steps. This one has 2 loungers though, so I don't know if we'll like it. We can sit in it, but not wet test it. We have only seen the pics on the web. The problem is these are in her back yard ,(new & packaged though) and she hasn't opened an actual store or warehouse yet, so we're concerned about warranty in the future. She said Alps would still take care of us if she stopped selling them. 4) http://vitaspa.com/2011/05/envie/ Vitaspa (by Maax) at Crown Spas store: The Crown store has a great reputation & great warranty. We spent time talking with the guy and sat in the tub. It's really nice. Its on sale for $7300 but that doesn't include ozone or any extras. We're waiting to hear tomorrow on what he can do with the price. My husband likes that its not spray foam insulation. We've heard that Maax is a good brand as well. After looking at this last week, we thought it was too expensive but after deciding warranty and a better tub is important to us, we're willing to finance a higher price. They will also give 3 years warranty from their store on things that are usually 2 years. They said they could fill the tub for us to wet test it this week. We're leaning towards this one if they can bring down the price even more. Their quote today includes ozone, clearzone II uv, steps, & cover lifter but total is $8900. 5) http://www.calderaspas.com/en/shop/paradise/makena/#tech-specs The Caldera Makena from Hot Springs/Oasis dealer: We saw it tonight, but didn't have time to wet test it. It's a really nice looking tub. The price is on sale for $8800, but he would give us the floor model, taxes included for $8200. It comes with the spafrog bromine system. The lighting package is great and we love that their is actual handles that light up too. There are speakers installed, but no stereo. The price for ozone is kind of expensive, but I wanted to ask about whether we should just buy an ozone kit online and install it ourselves. Is it worth getting ozone? Guess that's kind of another topic. The dealer would include cover lifter and stairs, and give us a deal on railing and anything else we want. The no tax or free salt system ended last week, but he's willing to honor it, so it's a pretty great deal. This tub also has the best warranty out of all of them. 5 years on most things as opposed to only 2 or 3 years for the rest of the tubs we looked at. I think I may bus it down there and wet test it later. We've heard great things about the hotsprings brand - our friend has one. We originally wanted the flair, but the lounger was too short. 6) New addition to list: http://www.northwindhottubs.com/freedom.html Northwind Freedom: It's the largest out of all of them at 92x92 and 40 inches deep. The other tubs were either 36 or 38. They said for $7800 we could get the floor model with ozone, upgraded insulation, a lighting package, steps & free delivery. Warranty wasn't that great, but it could be upgraded. The thing is, this one has NO LOUNGER, and we think we want one. The guy says most people don't like loungers & if they had one on their first tub, they get no lounger on their 2nd. I'm going to make a new post to see what people think about loungers. Does anyone here own the Freedom or a Northwind tub. I have no idea what the quality or reputation is. I also am not sure on what the best & easiest sanitation system for problem skin to use is - enzymes (we were told enzymes are the newest and greatest thing to use), bromine, chlorine, salt etc, and I'm not sure if we should let ozone included or not be a deciding factor. If ozone makes a big difference, would you recommend paying a lot more for the dealer to install it, or ordering one online. My husband is extremely handy, so it would be no problem for him to install himself. His (new, but small) construction company also has plumbers or electricians we can call on, (though my husband used to work with an electrician). Anyway, thanks again for your time & answers. I can't wait to read what you all have to say & I hope you're all enjoying your hot tubs! I'm so happy to have found this forum. Trish
  24. Hello there! Although we've been talking about it for a long time, last Saturday my wife and I, on a whim, went into our first spa store in West LA, Pacific Spas and Sauna. We looked around at their spas, and (after dry tests only) we're focused on the Sundance Cameo and the Caldera Cantabria. Although the tub will mostly be for me and my wife, we want a big tub for social gatherings. We like the idea of a lounger, but as I said, no wet tests yet. I started doing research soon thereafter, which led me to this place. And I've already done enough reading in the Hot Tub Water Chemistry to almost scare me off the whole thing. I think I might be a bromine kinda guy, but that's another discussion... I've seen that both Sundance and Caldera seem to be top brands, but other brands like D1 are also getting my attention. I looked on Yelp and saw a bunch of negative reviews of PS&S, which scared the crap out of me. So I wanted to check here. PS&S has a "deal" on a 2011 (?) new Cantabria that was apparently ordered and then the buyer had to back out...whatever. Doesn't matter. The offer on the table is $10K, which includes the spa, hydraulic cover lift (don't know the brand), Durastep, the first batch of Aquafinesse (which, according to what I've read, I may not even use), tax, and delivery. Anyway, I'm here to see if anyone on the boards here have dealt with this dealer. We have a wet test planned for sometime this week, but I'd like to know whether to keep the appointment. I don't want to spend that much money and have the dealer abandon me if I have trouble (which is what almost all of the negative Yelp reviews say). Is this a good price? Is the dealer reputable? What other dealers do people on this board like in SoCal? What other tubs should I be looking at? Thanks in advance.
  25. HI. We need your opinions & advice please. First, I'll say that this is a much shorter version of my first more detailed post which explains why & who will be using our spa/hot tub. (see here:http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=45231 We had narrowed our large pool of spas down to 3, but were only able to wet test 2, which we did this past weekend. They were the Caldera Makena & the Vitaspa Envie. My husband wants the Caldera because he likes the lounger better & felt there was more control over each seat, & I want the Vitaspa because I was disappointed when I was in the Caldera Makena because it didn't give me a therapeutic massage. I was very impressed when I was in the Envie with how great and massage like the jets were (even my husband & son agreed) I also didn't float out of the lounger like I did with the Caldera Makena. They also felt the Envie was bigger, which it is, and with my family being 6'4 and 6'6, I'm not sure why they prefer the Makena. Both have excellent warranty & great service which is how we narrowed it down to these 2, so it's not really a factor. Both salesman have gone over & above in trying to please us with big discounts. Caldera Makena: http://www.calderaspas.com/en/shop/paradise/makena/ $8200 with tax ($10000 regular price). Dealer is throwing in their best cover & cover lifter, steps, ozone & 3 Hotsprings robes. Comes with spa frog bromine system & outdoor panel. Has 46 jets, & 3 pumps, including circ pump. Pumps are only 2 hp. Has lounger and volcano foot jet. Also colored lights and fountain & lighted handle. It has speakers but no stereo installed. Not much of a cool down seat. Even though smaller than the Vitaspa envie it did feel deep enough, but then again there was so much water in there it was overflowing on the floor. I am willing to wet test it again tomorrow to see if I can get the jets to have a better massage. I'm not a hot tub person because of the heat, but I was looking forward to using it for the massage aspect. Vitaspa Envie: http://vitaspa.com/2011/05/envie/ $8500 with tax ($8300 regular price) Owner also giving us steps & cover lifter & gave us a big discount on ozone & UV. Doesn't come with outdoor panel, so that would be extra, but gives cost on it & the wire. Crown has great warranty & service too. I just like the Envie better. It has steps & a cool down seat, & a very comfy lounger. It has only 2 pumps though, but they are 3 hp. It has 54 jets - 8 more than the Makena, & gave a great massage. We can also change out the jets if we like. Has colored cupholders & a fountain & the color & cabinet is more to our liking. The dealer suggests we use Enzymes with our spa. My husband says the control for strength of jets only controlled one side of the tub at a time, which is why he likes the Makena better. Sooo, I told my husband the spa is really for him & he should choose, but then he chose the Makena, & I guess I was disappointed because I didn't enjoy being in it. Which means I probably won't use it much. It's wrong for me to try & change his mind though since I told him it was his choice. Saturday after wet testing the Envie, he couldn't make up his mind, & I told him & still feel that we should try the Makena again. Maybe I'll change my mind, or it will solidify his decision. So, what does everyone think. Spafrog bromine & ozone & circ pump, vs UV & ozone. I have folliculitis, psoriasis, and sometimes get rashes to chemicals in hygiene products, so I liked the idea of the uv & ozone to kill bacteria and maybe help with skin conditions. Spa frog means always buying bromine & mineral cartridges, whereas uv means a $100 light once a year. Does the circ pump make a big difference? One last thing; a tiebreaker could be the Alps Olympus spa, but the dealer who is new & selling out of her home says we can't wet test it. We can sit in it though. Here's its info: Alps spa Olympus model: http://www.jetsensationhottubs.com/#!olympus/cpyc $8300 with tax, price on website $7995. The warranty on it is ok, but not as good as the others. This tub is larger and deeper, & has ozone included (their standard) and 2 6hp pumps (breakpower I'm guessing). It has 3 pumps (circ of course), full lighting package including cup holders. lighted hand rail (like the Makena) and even a stereo system. Comes with a cover lifter & breaker panel & she would give us a deal on ionizer & steps. This one has 2 loungers though, so I don't know if we'll like it, or if the lounger is long enough (looking at the pic, the end of the lounger looks short & part of the tub space looks unusable at end of first lounger. With 72 stainless steel jets, I would hope they would give a good massage. The problem is these are in her back yard, (new & packaged though) and she hasn't opened an actual store or warehouse yet, so we're concerned about warranty in the future. She said Alps would still take care of us if she stopped selling them. I'm hoping she changes her mind & lets us wet test it. Well, sorry it wasn't as short as I thought it would be. I've just lived and breathed this forum & anything to do with hot tubs & spas for the past few weeks. I have barely gotten any sleep & I just want it to be over & the decision made & the hot tub on its way. I should add, all of these hot tubs are available to get right away, since we're taking the floor model. Only the Caldera Makena has been on the floor with water in it. The dealer added water to the Envie just for us to test. (He also installed ozone & uv just for us, so I'd feel really bad if we don't choose it) Thanks for your help, advice, & opinions. Cheers.
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