Amanda

Thank you very much for the birthday wish, Mr.Ed. I'm glad to see that you read everything. That's a good example to set for sure! I wish I had more time to do the same!

I think that you will find that the Clearwater spa will meet a lot of needs at a very reasonable price considering the quality of construction. It's certainly a very good value in my opinion and built well as people have mentioned. I'll be interested to see how things turn out for you. It may be difficult to carry that many brands. You may find that one brand can offer all that you wish to provide folks with. For instance... you shared that you are just now providing the "Resort" series. Rythym series has spas without as much "bling bling" for those with more simple tastes. It very well may end up as the primary instead of the alternative. I was never very technically minded prior to working with spas but have grown to love being near the factory and watching it all happen behind the curtains. I've learned a lot and i really enjoy studying the construction of as many spas as I can to really understand what is available to people. My only goal in being in this forum at all is to urge everyone to do the same. I hope that everyone can have as much fun as I have when learning about these amazingly artistic water-moving massagers. I know.. I can sound cheesy at times... but it's true! The way I see it, if you aren't enjoying the researching at a particular showroom... go somewhere else. From what I understand (and I may understand incorrectly because I'm not directly involved with all of the dealers at the corporate level), I think the spas they offer are older models with different features. I know they have different names... I'll have to look into that. There are many dealers all over he US and out of this country as well... very hard for me to keep up with all of them. As "hot n wet" can attest, new dealers are coming aboard all the time.

I know this is going to bring in some interesting comments from the regulars but it was tested at our manufacturing facility and monitored by an independant electrician (liscenced and bonded of course). I do not know the answer to the killowatts per month but I think it was somewhere around 199. I could be wrong on that. Of course there are many people that think the testing that goes on at a company is biased or not going to hold up because it wasn't done by a third party. What I can say is that our factory has at least taken the time and invested the money to go over the spa with a fine tuned comb... REGULARLY, with experienced engineers who are very proud of the accomplishments that have been made. I have read many topics that suggest there are no valid tests done by anyone... individual company OR third party. I guess the best way to really know.. is to get one in the back yard... n try it out. I explain these costs to everyone I speak with and in (approx) 4 years- I have NEVER had someone come back to me and say "hey, our electric bill went up more than you said it would." EVER! So, I'd say from my personal experience that those tests are pretty darned good. I know, these are just words on the screen and there are plenty of sales people that will "feed you a line"... but I am not one of them. Check out the web site on how they are constructed... makes complete sense to me and many spa companies are doing more of what Clearwater has been doing for a long time.

How funny Guzz! My humble opinion. I like that!

Red Cedar has more tannins in it making it more insect resistant as well. Here in the NW, almost all decks, steps, gazebos n such are made of cedar. It's just simply the way to go if you are going to choose to work with wood.

Caren, It can be a very confusing thing to sort out all the information that you are going to receive about spas. You may want to take a second and organize your thoughts. When you visit a showroom with a knowledgeable salesperson, they will be able to answer all of your questions very easily without "bashing" another brand. That is unprofessional and I would shy away from that kind of behavior and not purchase a spa from someone like that. You may want to let the company know how they are being represented to allow them the chance to redeem themselves. You should have a plan of attack when you enter the sales environment. Take a moment and think about the most important things to you. How are you going to use your spa and where are you going to put it? Socially, theraputically, relaxation... how many people to comfortably fit, any space constraints. That's the surface stuff to help you select the model. Then think about what concerns you may have... water care, performance, warranty, labor charges, dealer longevity and or reputable representation of themselves and the product. If a salesperson is unable to answer basic questions fairly quickly (getting the information if they don't know instead of making it up), what does that tell you about their ability to continue their service to you and the company that puts them on the front lines? Write down some of things that are important you and make sure they are addressed.

I am very familiar with this brand. I work out of the showroom in Woodinville,WA where they are manufactured. It's not a huge company in comparison to most of the brands mentioned regularly in here but they have been expanding tremendously in spite of the economy and have been in business for 30 years. There are many dealers throughout the United States and in Europe and other countries as well. I feel it is extremely well built and absolutely DOES have insulation. That previous statement was false. I'll respond because someone asked specifically about the brand Clearwater. As for jets... there is a wide variety of jets available in each spa... many different sizes and "feels" to them being fully adjustable. Brulan was right once again about the galvanized steel framing...with the weight of the spa not resting on the frame itself, reflective thermal barrier insulation, and the supports are plastic along with the bottom. There is no fiberglass in the construction of the shell or the bottom. Regarding the remark made from a "salesperson" in Antlanta about the cost of running... I hate it when that happens! He must not have known the answer. Average around here with 6.7 cents per k. is from $12-$20 with keeping the spa at 101 degrees in an ambient air temperature of 54 degrees using the spa 3 times/ wk for 20 minutes each time... keeping the cover on the rest of the duration. The last time this was tested, a 3 1/2" cover was used... the covers now are thicker. Spa tech is right about getting a reputable dealer... that goes for ANY brand! Comparing to Master spas is almost apples to oranges. There are MANY differences. Comparing to Coleman is much more similar exept you don't have to register your warranty with Clearwater, the plastic pillar supports are more of the structural support instead of the frame, steel reinforcement in the shell, and Clearwater hasn't bought other companies to make their own. 10 years longer in the spa business with the same owner the entire time. Clearwater has been around a very long time with a very good reputation and getting better everyday. If a lot of the folks in here haven't heard of them yet... they will. I think it is funny that I've been posting with for quite a while now and many regulars didn't know I was associated with that brand. I guess I've done well not being biased or promoting my brand over others. If you have specific questions about it, I'd be happy to help you. Feel free to message me directly. I don't want to break any forum rules in "promoting" a particular brand that I have an association with. HotnWet... do you sell D1 spas?

I'm sorry you are in this position. I would refrain from posting warnings untill the situation has come to an end. Document everything, names, times you've spoken, what was said... this will aid you in your dispute. I hope it resolves itself quickly. Keep us posted! Water cuts channels through mountains... it can wear out or break a jet. There are ways to care for your water that will help reduce this significantly. I've seen jets last a couple of months (with very poor water care) up to 12 years (when they were cared for properly). A reputable company will take care of you if you come across some challenges in this area as they are very easy to replace.

I certainly don't intend to trash talk any spa or company nor am I fearful of the Costco spas. I work at a spa retail showroom about 1/2 mile from a Costco store and talk about the differences all the time. We are still very much in business because we provide a great spa with even better support. No... I'm not trying to sell my brand either. I will only mention the brand when someone directly asks me. I shop at Costco all the time and they DO have a great return policy! I personally go there specifically for the good deals... as do most Costco shoppers. I think the main point I have is to help folks empower themselves with the knowledge to understand EXACTLY what differences are. There has GOT to be some differences in the construction, and/or the company support you receive. It doesn't mean that it is a bad value or a bad spa for the money. But the key is... "for the money". It all comes down to that doesn't it? No-one wants to spend a lot of money for a spa. Most folks want the stuff and doo-dads for the cheapest price. That's why the Costco deal exists. Sometimes.. it is going to be the best decision for someone who is thinking of cost as the primary concern for purchasing a spa. There's nothing wrong with getting a great deal! Just make sure that you take your time to decide if the differences are worth it to you before getting the spa. The purchasers responsibilities are increased as delivery to the specific location is up to them and damage done would be their responsibility also. Sure... beer and pizza can get just about anything done with a bunch of friends, but what if? The return policy is awesome I'm sure, but for me personally, if something minor happens... I'd prefer to deal with a local service department and get it taken care of no charge instead of return the spa at my expense. I don't want to get two spas in ten years... I want ONE that will last and hold up for longer than that without being concerned about quality. I don't want to have ANY reponsibility. Just want to relax and know that there won't be a lot of things I have to take care of because of the quality of construction- someone ELSE can do that for me IF something happens. When you look at the surface only and see the color and jets and stereo and lights... it's hard to see why ANYONE would choose any other spa at all. But why are other spa companies still going strong right down the road from this amazing Costco deal? There is definately a reason. You decide what's important to you and go for it! But please, with full knowledge. Try to think of not just the initial savings but the entire possible cost for however long you intend on having the spa. There is much more than jets and water and doo-dads... service, support, longevity, materials used in manufacturing (some can be harmful for our environment-this is VERY important to me), some companies actually use recycled materials to HELP CLEAN UP our environment, sanitizing options that make taking care of the water easier, water testing facilities if you need help, warranty claims and return policies. In this post there are many pros and cons mentioned. Either way, you will spend a few thousand dollars (up front or in the long run)... isn't it worth it to take a few comparison notes and really think about where the cost difference will affect you? What are the most important things to you in a spa, and the company that offers it? The biggest concerns that people mention to me is (of course initial cost) but also: installation costs, concern over maintenance, ongoing chemical costs and operational costs, ongoing support for operational assistance, and a bussiness relationship built from the foundation of trust and knowledge. Some people take YEARS to do this research. I'm not saying it needs to be that long for everyone to make a decision... but purchasing something this important deserves some comparing. Both will give you a great deal on what you get "for the money". Try to think of all of it so you can make the right decision for yourself and your needs.

"Lifetime" means 7 years in Warranty land doesn't it? Or who/what lifetime is it? There are usually costs associated with the return of a spa. The disconnection of the electrical source, the transportation. Are these covered by the return policy also?

Definately a good variety of jets. A lot of it depends on what kind of massage you like. I agree with the little pin-point jets. They direct the water to this little area that feels needle-like after a while. I LOVE spinning jets! The ability to switch jets around in the spa is important to me also. And a single jet that can be adjusted to have a few different feels is nice because you can be more specific about what kind of massage out of each area. A good mix of air/water completely changes the feel of a massage also. Basically, as you move from one seat to another you should have the ability to tell the spa (by adjusting flow/air/jet functions/ the jet itself or the seat you sit in) exactly how you want your massage to be. If the spa doesn't have this kind of variety I wouldn't even think about it. And Guzz is absolutely right... stainless steel is purely asthetics- not longevity or durability.

Hello there! As far as price quote from America... you may want to also consider the following information along with it. You would find a spa for less but if you purchase it from here: 1) shipping costs 2) who will be your service department? 3) will a local European dealer honor a warranty on a spa purchased in another country? 4) if your getting American pricing and trying to "talk down" the European price of the spa... it may be best to get priceing from a few different locations where you live according to your market and economy and compare those prices with each other. Take your time and ask at least a few times for the best price if you have a tough sales spiel to go through. Doing your research is smart! But you would have to really talk to the manufacturer of the spa to get an idea of the cost and dealer mark-up. More than likely the European dealers are paying a hefty fee to get the spas there in the first place and to have a good relationship with the selling comany for training and service department support. Good luck to you!

I think even if you are wealthy, spending money wisely is important. To put yourself in a situation knowing that it could potentially cost significantly more to deal with certain circumstances... is simply wasteful. Perhaps it may the the location where I live but everyone I meet cares about what they spend. Having money is one thing... staying wealthy is another. Hence a great topic posted here... how you can avoid any pitfalls BEFORE you put a spa in a certain situation (budget or not).

Along with the ventilation being extremely inportant... you may want to consider access to ALL sides in order to reach any equipment further on down the road if you need to service it. Easy delivery and/or removal of the spa should be considered as well. Many people choose to have french doors to make this easier as they can open nice and wide.

I agree with having a frame for the gravel... and I usually suggest 5/8ths minus... when tamped down it sticks together pretty well and isn't rounded pebbles that roll against each other. I suggest a gravel foundation only if the bottom of the spa is an abs plastic bottom.

Sorry you had that experience. I completely know what you mean! We're not ALL like that though... you just have to weed through the unprofessionals sometimes. The situation you've described is something I work VERY hard at ALL THE TIME to change in this industry. Even in the shark/wolf filled sales world (in my opinion) there's got to be some kind of respect, honesty, and trust. Unfortunately there are many people in this industry that have a shark-type of approach... but there are quite a few that are not like that as well. You are right to only deal with the professionals. Everything we really needed to learn, we learned in grade school right? I guess everywhere we go, there is going to be some nutty person acting like a squirrel trying to get a nut... but there's much more to the spa world than that insanity. Therapy, rest, relaxation, healing, good quality time, family moments, relationship moments , fun, entertaining friends, star gazing, snow falling around a steam cloud,.... these are eventually some of the end results of purchasing a great spa with an even better company to stand behind their product. Settle for nothing less!

Sounds a lot like the Volkswagon dealer I went to. Volkswagon's been around forever.. they are technologically advanced, they have a parts/service depts all over the place. Of course... just about anything you pick up these days has a "made in China" sticker on it. It will be interesting to see how it all pans out. Still... I think supporting our local economy has some extreme value to it. Just to make sure you know I'm not being hypocritical... my bug was a gift. It had a bow and everything. So if someone wants to give me a spa... I'm all for it!

7 gallons/min sounds cool but there gotta be a crevice or two that needs to be cleaned. Do you recommend cleaning behind the packs? If so, how often. What happens if someone gets the psuedomonis bacteria in the spa... taking care of this would be difficult I would think. I would be a bit concerned about fitting my whole family in it as well. Our family ranges from 6'8"(son-in-law) to 5'4"(me) and everthing in between. If all the seats are the same size how could this fit my family correctly?

Thanks Kahuna! So what type of insulation do you prefer? There is full foam, partially foamed, foamed on the outer wall, foamed on the floor, non-spray styrene foam, reflective thermal barrier on the sides and the bottom... Maybe your somewhere in between...

To "close a customer" ... I don't do this. The best way to form a long-standing business relationship is to give someone correct information in a respectful way and let them make their own decision. If you have presented the information correctly without the "sales" feel to it... then a person would go with whatever spa/company they decide is best for their family in their area. Follow through with what you say your going to do quickly and efficiently and that stands out far and above what most people are doing these days.

Well, I see we're into the debate of full foam vs not once again. Folks reading all of the comments said from the "heated waters" of our industry grain of salt! My personal belief is both work... however I have a tendancy to lean a bit more toward the insulation that isn't fully foamed in. I just know for myself that if the difference in operating costs are so minimal between the two according to many votes in here... the varying factor for me is access and what I would be responsible for in the future as far as service and fixing it if need be. I always like to think of the possible work I may need to do in the future to avoid having to do any hard work... lazy, I know! I'm certainly not going to "bash" anyone for making their tub to the best of their abilities and I like to think that most companies are trying to do their best. My opinion... after warranties have worn out and the care and maintenance is more up to me or to pay someone to do it, it seems to make more sense (for ME) to have a spa that I could easily get to everything and not dig through foam (which would be moldy, mildewy, or possibly full of yuckys in this area NW) or pay someone to dig through stuff which (even with a skilled technician- can take some time). It just seems easier (for me) to simply take off the side panel and have open access to everything with no mold (I'm severely allergic to mold and mildew) if there was ever a leak or something that needed to be fixed. Of course many spas are made both ways and I agree that the company that stands behind their product is VERY important when facing this dilima. And I'm sure there are people that wouldn't mind the digging or paying someone to do that. Knowing that most peopel in this forum are "full foamers"... DON'T SHOOT!!!!

You hunt for information will be an interesting one for sure! I hope that you enjoy your researching! A couple of helpful hints: 1) most spas have a range from 80-104 degrees so you shouldn't have to sacrifice your play time because of getting a spa instead of a swimspa. 2)You'll find as you visit each of the five showrooms that each one will tell you their spa is the best because..."yadayadayada". In the forum, most will try not to "bash" another comany or promote their own, but give you the information to help you make a better and informed decision. I'd say allow yourself enough time to hear the whole story they have to tell and do NOT make a fast decision based on a fast sale approach. Take notes and do some comparing. If it's possible (many others in the forum will agree) wet test! Or at least stick your hands in the water and feel the jets! Bring your suit and towel in the car just in case they have one with water in it that you can test out. That's the really fun part! To prepare yourself for this shopping adventure... take a couple of moments and ask yourself/your family "What is the three most important reasons for us to get a spa?" and "What are our biggest concerns with getting one?" You will be better prepared and be able to process the wealth of information you will recieve. If a company has any bad reports in the better bus. B., ask the company directly... what has happened with this particular customer and how would I be protected from the same thing happening to me? 3) Average for a good quality spa can range between 6k-8k. But it completely depends on what options you are interested in, how big of a spa you want, how many jets your looking for and how the company presents it's information. Some have "negotiating room" abnd some don't... most of them will have some kind of sale going on. 4) Annual cost of upkeep has a few factors as well. You may hear anything from 12 to 20 bucks a month. And there is always a wonderful debate about full foam insulation VS thermally insulated. Take it all with a grain of salt! Most places will say it costs ("$X" per month to operate). Find out the statistics on how they came up with that number. Most mean just the cost of electricity. Ambient air temperatures or your environment, amount of usage all have an effect on these costs. then there is the cost of chemicals, filters that need to be replaced, possible "hidden" service trip charges or pro-rated warranties... you can see there may be a few more things considered when finding out how much it REALLY costs to operate. I'd take ALL of things into consideration. Since you are computer savy.... before going to each place, check out their web-site. You can "Google-it!". Each web site usuall explains how the spa is constructed so you'll be more informed and can have some note-ready questions prior to entering the sales zone. Not to be confused with the "Twilight Zone". Once you've gotten your info from each place and weeded through all the "sales jargon"... you'll be able to make a much more informed decision and relax in your spa at home knowing you made the right decision for your family, lifestyle, and environment.

Am I to understand that there aren't valid tests of safety for this particular system rated for spa use specifically and that is why they are priced less for now? Are you suggesting that (if I were looking for a spa) that I would want to purchase this system now (jump on the good deal band-wagon) because the price hasn't been increased yet due to not being able to provide the health and safety results for the sanitation system? I'd like to think I have missunderstood you. I'd love some clarification on this.

Oh, I'm SO sorry this happened to your family. Yes... this can be a common thing mostly when the spa isn't sanitized properly. It can be somewhat hard to diagnose as you could have 5 people use your spa and sometimes only one person may show the symptoms. Going to your doc. was the perfect thing to do because they can usually give you an antibacterial lotion to help get over it faster. It's a good idea to drain your spa after the proper sanitation level has been reached. I suggest replaceing a floating cover if you were using one, cleaning all the seams of your hardcover and behind pillows if you have them. Basically give your spa a good scrub-down to get rid of any residual bacteria that may have lingered so this hopefully won't re-occur. I may be a bit more meticulous than most but this thourough cleaning usually works well. If you need help in making sure your sanitation levels are correct... take a sample of water into where you purchased your spa from and they should be able to test it for you and give you a "run-down" or "recipe" of what to do. When sitting in a spa of hot water, it expands the pores in your skin and makes you more susceptable (sp?) to bacteria. Some people can build a bit of an immunity to their own spas bacterisa and it can happen to a friend when they visit. A good way to get rid of pesky friends! Hope this helps.. and just take a few seconds a couple of times a week to test your water regularly so you know how much of what to put in!

There is usually a defaoming agent available at your local spa co. A little of this goes a long way and it's kindof fun to watch it work! You can also turn your jets on for a few minutes till the foam "piles up" and scoop it off the top of the water eliminating most of the source of the bubbles. You can also get your water tested (or have a spa co. test it for you) for "phosphates". Although not all spa companies test for this. The phosphates is the actual cause of the foam... usually found in detergents n such. There is a number of phosphate removing agents as well so it's more like treating the cause (phosphates) instead of the effect (bubbles/foam). Don't worry though.. you shouldn't glow in the dark from it!