Dr. Spa

I think I got your quote out correctly.......... Most industries are not regulated, and every industry you'll find people "less than honest"...... Part of living in America I guess.......... or maybe just a small part of humanity... Keep in mind, most of the dealers on these boards derive absolutely no income from their time here. None of them, well almost none sell online. They do this mostly for the enjoyment of helping others (makes up for the bad part of humanity eh?), and yes, even some entertainment value........... and it's a great way to convince employees your too busy to do some real work you REALLY don't want to do. Unfortunately, I don't have any personal knowledge on the spas you're looking at. I'm not aware of any (excessive) problems or complaints towards any of them. My own personal general advise to anyone looking for a spa (and I spent my first 8 or 10 years in this business doing service) is find what fits your pocket book first. Find whats most comfortable second. Then find a dealer that been in business a long time selling the same brand of spa. If they continue to carry the same brand of spa year after year that tells me they're happy with that particular brand, it's given them minimal problems, the manufacturer had been there for them AND they have a good relationship with the manufacturer (this can go a lot further than one might think). The longer they've been in business, the more likely they treat their customers well. This isn't always true though, they gotta start somewhere.............. but you don't stay in business long screwing your customers. Though I knew a young sales woman once................ naaaaaaaaa, better not

Typically the outside edge of a spa frame is not where the bulk of the weight is. It's towards the center of the spa. If you shim the edge, the center will sag and possibly eventually crack.

"Gee, you guys are cynical." Cynical? Yeah. I'm paranoid too. but, just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean I'm not being followed. Do some research on the BBB.. there's some interesting stories out there............grrrrrrrrrrr, another personal document I can't find. " TO REPEAT, I AM NOT A DEALER" nor am I. I manufacture traditional wooden hot tubs and spa covers... among other things "The reason I told the other guy not to listen to much of what he reads on this site (IMO) comes from dealers and not consumers" I don't believe most consumers have much info in terms of comparing different spas in any real life experience. They may have briefly seen a brand other than what they own, but realistically the only knowledge they have is with regards to the one single spa they've owned for a short period of time. They're not doing service work on hundreds, no, thousands of spas of different brands, they haven't seen the changes, intimately, over the years, they don't spend the hours at trade shows talking the tech talk, that's fully understood, with factory reps. "like me who are just trying to learn facts about tubs without biases affecting their opinions." As I already said, everyone is biased based on what they choose to believe. You seem to believe the BBB is infallible. "I went into shopping for a spa with no knowledge but have spent a few weeks educating myself with as much info as I could collect from a variety of sources and opinions." A few weeks? Guess I've wasted the last 25 years of my lift .............. SHUTUP STEVE "I was only making an observation that HS is the only mfg I know of that doesn't have these suction outlets. I find it curious they are the only ones who don't" Hot Spring Spas also makes more spas than the next 3 companies combined. They TAKE CARE of their customers. You say their expensive? Care costs. If you really look at things you'll notice that the more "budget" a spa is, there tends to be more complaints. "I also believe it is ANSI standards to have them. Is this not correct?" This is absolutely NOT correct. ANSI standards, by their own words, are not requirements and there may in fact be better and/or safer ways of doing things. "The only other objection I have against buying Hot Springs is that I think there are better values in the marketplace." Value, like the comfort of a spa, is a purely personal thing. "My gosh, you Hot Springs dealers" Not a dealer. "My gosh Dr. Spa. You think the government is a reliable source for info? You must be smoking something illegal!" Though it's been many years, and I never really did inhale, there may be some lasting after effects. "I would rather put some faith in a highly regarded not-for-profit organization like the BBB" Again, do research into the BBB. You may be surprised.

Here's a question. The BBB is NOT a governmental agency but is a private not for profit company....... Who monitors them for accuracy??

I believe the D was supposed to be an H........ Federal standards? There is no such thing. Please go read my previous post in another thread regarding ASTM standards. As I stated there, these "standards" are in no way requirements (as per ASTM's own words). Additionally, AS PER ASTM's OWN STATEMENT, there may be OTHER way of doing things that may be as safe, OR SAFER than their own standards. wesj53, you say not to listen to the dealers here but to tell you the truth, it sounds like YOU are either a dealer, or haven fallen hook line and sinker for something you've heard from another dealer somewhere else. Or perhaps your information comes from a web site written by the marketing department of a large spa company? My friend, you say you're not biased? Well, EVERYONE is biased, based on what they CHOOSE to believe.............. customer walked in, back to finish later.... had to get this posted her

Nope............ was expecting one though.

It's time for some factual information here! The following is a DIRECT quote from ANSI/NSPI-2. This is the AMERICAN NATIONAL STANDARD FOR PUBLIC SPAS it's also in ANSI/NSPI-3, AMERICAN NATIONAL STANDARD FOR PERMANENTLY INSTALLED RESIDENTIAL SPAS. sorry folks, at the moment I can't the standard for portable spas (ANSI/NSPI-6). There's a preface to the standards that states the following. THIS IS COPY and PASTED from the document (I'm probably now in trouble for copyright infringement ).....; "The use of American National Standards is completely voluntary; their existence does not in any respect preclude anyone, whether he has approved this standard or not, from manufacturing, marketing, purchasing or using products, processes or procedures not conforming to the standards." The document then continues with a "Forward".......... "The objective of this standard is to provide recommended minimum guidelines for the design, equipment, installation, and use of public spas. It is also intended to assist local jurisdictions and other regulatory bodies, where necessary, in the development and promulgation of criteria for public spas." I personally like the following.......; "Special thanks to the following whose contributions and dedication made this standard possible: Steve Macey, Watkins Manufacturing" The following is from ANSI/NSPI-2, I also know it is in ANSI/NSPI-6... ARTICLE 1.1.1 The provisions of this specification are not intended to prevent the use of other designs provided that any variation from the specifications in this standard provide the required quality, strength, durability and safety for the intended use and are approved by the authority having jurisdiction. Nonfollish comments welcome .............. you owe me now Chas

The programming of the board may have it automatically selected by default.

It might help to see an entire email that you're getting that you don't want to get (there's probably something at the VERY bottom as to how to unsubscribe).

I believe the following is how........ top of the page click on My Controls in the left column under Subscriptions click View Topic in the drop down menu select Change To: No email Notification. repeat with View Forums (under Subscriptions) in the left column under Options click Email Settings uncheck each box. CHECK THE last box and choose No Email Notification from the drop down menu

First off, Jacuzzi did NOT invent the spa. It's a very common misconception though. Jacuzzi did though invent the whirlpool pump. Baja spas was the first to sell portable spas, 6 months before Jacuzzi. That said, so I get a free spa? Cool! And I get to pick between some of the top names in the business? Even cooler. I'd have to go try each one out and determin which one fits ME the best. Which contours to MY body the best. Which has the best jet placement and pressure for ME. Then I'd have to determine which dealer I feel would have the best relationship with ME. I'd also give some thought to how long each dealer has been in business AND how long they've carried that paticular brand. Not much help huh?

"Best" in terms of what?

The report is so old, and had had relitivly little interest in it at the time, I don't recall a whole lot of it. I do seem to remember though that only a small part of it was on leaking spas, and the "report" as a whole covered quite a few different things (other than spas). "Or have the TP spa manufacturers done something to alleviate this problem?" Yes and no. Plumbing connections have changed, and are claimed to be better.......... BUT, every thim the pump turms on, and off, the plumbing is prone to flexing. Reduce, or eliminate the flex, and you reduce the stress and lower the possibility of leaks. "I can understand that keeping a motor running cool can help lengthen its service life, but what about motor starts when the motor is cold. Come to think of it, how cold can the motor get, assuming the spa is powered?" Really the ONLY part of a motor effected by movement is the bearings (and the shaft seal in the pump). Typically they're grease filled, sealed bearings. I'm not aware of any possible problems till you get to temperatures so low the grease actually freeezes. You live in the antarctica by any chance? "Any troubles due to wide temperature swings on the components?" Nothing I've ever heard of.

Actually, in a case like this the pump and heater is only going to run a few hours a day. The majority of the time the pump/heater will be OFF, therefore not producing heat and. With no heat being produced the MAJORITY of the time, durring that time MORE heat will be lost through the lack of, or minimul, insulation. Motors are rated for a MAXIMUN ambient temp. A lower temp will generally extend their life. ummmmmmmmmmm, kind of. Try putting some tape on the outside of the cup and hold it from there. There is a published report that does show a curve for insulation vs heat loss. HOWEVER (and this is the MOST important part), it's dependant on ABSOLUTE elimination of air infiltration. The "curve" shows a 70% reduction of heat loss at about R-7.5 and a 90% reduction at R-15 (what this relates to in $ I haven't a clue ). But again, air infiltration is, or can be, a MAJOR cause of heat loss. A VERY small opening or crack can easily cause a turnover of all the air beneith a TP spa in only a few minutes with a slight breeze. For someone EXPERIENCED in this type of repair it usually isn't a big deal. I used to have a service tech that was an ex teck of a "major" FF manufacturer. He could generally find and repair a leak in that paticular brand of spa in about an hour. For the unexperienced, yup, it can be a nightmare......... But, so can brain surgery Yes, but unfortunatly I lost the report on this . It was published by a home warrant company comparing the number of leaks in a FF spa compared to TP. The report is about 6 or 8 years old, and as I recall, TP leaked 6 to 8 times more frequently than FF.

From where you are I would think you could simply coast all the way to Vegas on a bike.

My sweet dear Cougar, I am not a moderator here. Nor do I have the ability to make any changes of any kind, other than to my own messages, here. I am however a moderator at one of the message boards where you consider "moderators do a great job in policing them" (as well as my own hot tub spa message board, and a number of boards of other topics............ what can I say, I'm a trusted message board addict ). I do now expect a pathetic appology in a foolish manner from you As for you Stevie........... WTF is with that girlie "i" ??? Congrats on the new job! I can tell from your posts tonihgt you're feeling on top of the world. Seriously, I couldn't be happier for you! You now going to be at the Aqua show? My offer of a plane ticket for you is still good. I might even be able to swing the wife........... if she's cute (there's gotta be a garbage can lid joke here somewhere).

Proof once again I do a fine job moderating!

Actually, I'm rather ashamed, that I didn't think of it first, and actually followed Terminator's lead. Not ashamed enough to delete my post though

Or mine ........ Roberts Hot Tubs

hahahahahahahahahahaha, other than the fact that YOU sell this brand, can you provide ANY evidence what so ever to back this up???? And no, just because this is what you were TRAINED to say, isn't proof. Styx, there is no one "best brand". There is however, a "best spa"... for YOU. A large percentage of "best" comes down to individual preferences. What spa gives YOU, the options YOU want, provides YOU with the best comfort and therapy YOU want, is in YOUR price range, and is offered by a dealer YOU trust and feel comfortable dealing with for years to come? Figure all this out and YOU will own the BEST SPA that exists, for YOU. I know, it's going to take a bit of work on your part. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Oh and remember, there's never been a salesman that didn't believe that whatever they were selling was the best, and they'll all tell you so.

Charcoal starter will work fine. It's a mild solvent that wont effect the acrylic (test it in an inconspicuous place first).

Because to the average consummer is appears inexpensive. But, it's only 1/2 the strength of liquid pool chlorine and can lose half it's strength in 30 days after being manufactured (how long has it been sitting on a store shelf, or in a warehouse?). It also has a pH of 13, and every gallon adds 2 pounds of salt to the water, quickly raising TDS levels. But it's cheap.

http://www.rhtubs.com/cgi-bin/bbs/config.pl

Can I borrow her?