Tom

Sorry to hear that everything wasn't perfect but apparently the dealer responded promptly to your concerns. While both Arctic and Apollo strive for perfection in production and service, situations do arise. You can be sure however, both companies are committed not only to customer satisfaction, but to customer delight! Thank you for your input, and we look forward to hearing from you again BTW, your warranty covers things like the cracked pillow and the diverter bear claw. For five years. Does any other company warranty the pillows and diverter handles for 5 years? I apologize for any confusion you may have experienced over the ORP meter, but didn't you order one off the internet in preference to the simple one we offer as an option? Or was that someone else? Okay, I apologize for any confusion I may be experiencing... As for the pillows, we know it's not a perfect solution and are researching new methods of pillow attachment. However, as suggested in this thread, they do stick well enough once installed.

Sure. I added a little more info to my earlier answer to Urbane Lion (and I'm glad you're a happy cat). Sorry to hear you're having a problem with the pillows, but help is available! Your headrests are probably the type with a suction cup and perhaps a plastic disk to stick onto the acrylic. (The suction cup will probably stick okay to smooth acrylic, but not to textured acrylic. The plastic disks were developed for the textured acrylic.) Cleaning the acrylic with a little rubbing alcohol before attaching the disk may help. Your dealer can access an instructional video on our private web site (Memo #520-080617 or See: reference - downloads - informational videos - pillow retro) with other solutions. Happy soaking Tom

A quick note here for international readers: I believe that the North American and International versions operate differently. Please contact Onzen Support for specific instructions.

[quote name='Urbane Lion' date='Oct 3 2008, 09:29 AM' post='62462 I am having some problems with maintaining the headrest cushions in place Dear Lion Thanks for purchasing our product! Sorry to hear you're having a problem with the pillows, but help is available! I'm sending you some information by PM. Happy soaking Tom

It's an "interesting" time in the industry. I do thank you for your patience as I know your dealer is working on this for you. There is a discussion of the possibility of speakers or transducers being cross-wired (which cancels out one speaker) but I don't see it in this thread - did you cross-post to another forum? If so, I'd like to get the posts linked because that information may help you and others. Thanks.

Hi, Will It's possible for a fuse to look okay and still be blown. Shut your spa down at the breaker for a few minutes then turn it back on. This will reset the computer and restore all settings to the factory default. If this doesn't bring things back to normal, please call your dealer for diagnostic assistance.

Yes?? Calvin has contacted me directly and I'm looking into it.

Every once in a while, a poster (usually an owner who needs repairs?) promotes the use of only "standard off-the-shelf parts" in making a hot tub. Arguments in support of this generally involve four assumptions: 1. Price - standard parts are less expensive than custom parts. 2. Availability - generic parts have a wider availability than custom parts. 3. Access - custom parts require the owner to purchase from a specific brand outlet. 4. Design consistency - if everybody only used standard parts, repairs would be easier. In this thread, I propose that we examine and discuss those assumptions. Companies who use custom parts point out that standard parts have their limits: 1. Design constraints - using only standard parts restricts you to standard designs; there is little room for innovation (cookie-cutter parts = cookie-cutter spas) 2. Operating Efficiency - a custom part may be more efficient in operation than a standard part, and worth any extra cost in a high-end spa 3. Manufacturing Efficiency - a custom part may cost more than a standard part but may save time on preparation or installation for an overall saving. 4. Combined Efficiency - a custom part may combine two or more standard parts for an overall price saving There may be more that I've missed, so if you support either position, please add your reasons. The Sept. 11 issue of Machine Design Magazine ("by engineers for engineers") had a couple of items on this topic that explain more about Price and Design: Page 33 has a report that begins "Can you save money with custom parts? ...Winegard, a Burlington, Iowa, Manufacturer and supplier of television antennas, did exactly that... [standard gears] stamped from solid metal proved to be more expensive than [custom-made] powder-metal parts, and stamped parts also limit designers to off-the-shelf parts..." Page 56 presents "The hidden costs of standard parts" by Robert Humphrey, president and CEO of a Michigan manufacturer. Humphrey writes, "Engineers often think that assembling finished products from standard components is efficient -- if they just look at the price of the parts. But look at the time it takes to bring a concept into production and you may see a whole different picture. In a perfect world, engineers would build perfect designs using off-the-shelf components. But that usually doesn't happen, especially when faced with trade-offs such as space constraints versus performance...it may not be possible to make standard components fit the required envelope... When you begin calculating the time it takes to design, engineer, and manufacture your products, you will discover the real hidden costs of standard components." I think we can conclude that the first assumption, ""Standard parts are less expensive than custom parts" is not necessarily true even at a superficial level. A custom part may cost less; but even if it costs more, it may carry additional benefits in terms of performance or production that outweigh the extra cost.

Please consider the following: * There are four listings for Apollo Spas in the Spokane, Washington BBB; they have 0 complaints. ZERO for all four locations. * The Alaska/Oregon/Western WA BBB site lists six stores (Tukwila, Everett, Kirkland, Olympia, Tacoma, Silverland) with collectively ten complaints in three years, all of which have been resolved or closed. That averages one complaint per store over a three year period. * I checked ONE of several Aqua Recs locations (Tacoma) and found 11 complaints, two of which went to arbitration, the rest resolved or closed. I didn't bother to check the other locations. I guess this poster didn't either.

Thank you for putting it as you did; you are indeed misunderstanding the system. Salt systems are widely used in swimming pools worldwide, and have recently been developed for spas. The "salt" used in Onzen will be either sodium bromide or sodium chloride, and the system will release as the active sanitizer either bromine or chlorine depending on which salt is used. Onzen also incorporates ozone as an oxidizer and silver ions (US only) as a bacteriostat. (Please google those terms for further information). I think the Pioneer site (makers of the Genesis System salt sanitizer) has a good explanation about how saline sanitization works.

I'm not sure how Machaon defines "harsh chemicals" but there was a report a few years back of a medical doctor running his spa using only Epsom salts. We did some research on that and found a great deal of anecdotal evidence but no real scientific backup, so dropped it. Might be worth looking into, Machaon; see what Google can find for you.

Thanks to CPU who provided some helpful suggestions earlier; I expect that the brochure will be updated at the next printing (I do not have a date for this). The updated brochure will be made available to customers through our eNewsletter (and, eventually, our new web site). Arctic/Coyote/Apollo owners are invited to subscribe or check out back issues here. According to our supplier's spec sheets, Refresh is MPS, a standard non-chlorine oxidizer. One problem with the present Onzen manual is that it says to use "small amounts" of Refresh. I consulted one of our R&D team who was on the Onzen project. Here's what he said: - The amount of Refresh you need depends on the level of usage. Use approximately 1/2 capful per session (try 1/4 capful per person, about 2 level teaspoons) - With very light usage (1 person in the spa for 15 min) you don't need Refresh. The ozone will eventually burn off the combined amines. So if it's just you in the tub, ChiTown, you can add up to 1/2 capful after the last dip of the day. If you skip it, keep a very close eye on your sanitizer level. - After heavy use (a tub party), it may take up to 24 hours for the system to generate measurable levels of sanitizer. Use small amounts (1/2 capful at a time) of Refresh to bring the sanitizer level up more quickly. - Using the recommended normal dose (4 capfuls per 400gal/1500 litres) is not harmful--the excess will drive up your sanitizer level temporarily, as ChiTown observed--but this does waste Refresh. Remember to leave your cover off for 20 minutes after using Refresh (see Owner manual, p. 25) While I'm on Onzen, we are finding that some owners are using too much salt or too high a setting, I guess on the idea that "if some is good, more is better." WRONG! After heavy use, add Refresh rather than cranking up the Onzen setting or dumping in salt. (cpu, is that the kind of thing you meant?) I hope this information is useful and helpful.

Try this thread: Cover Repair

Sounds like an older brochure. Please let me know the page number and the code on the back of the brochure. I don't think we've used that 300W amp for some time, but if there's an error in a brochure I'll for sure want to get it corrected. Thanks for your help.

I'm not familiar with the metallic ion disks so I hope dealers who carry them will contribute here. ( I know there is a silver plate for ion generation on our US Onzen models. It' s my understanding that the silver ions are a bacteriostat, not a bacteriocide -- that means it prevents bacteria from breeding but doesn't actually kill them like the chlorine or bromine does) Please check this FAQ on our web site. The filters are widely available but your dealer would appreciate your buying from him.

Internet vendors can offer you lower prices because they don't have a showroom, payroll, etc. but many people report that the tradeoff is the support that a dealer can give you. I was able to find this filter online for as low as $26.95 but with shipping and taxes it comes to around $37. Have you actually found them online for $28 shipping and tax in? We normally expect about a month for the first micropure filter (the learning process usually requires draining the spa at the one month mark - see this FAQ--and about three months each after that. I checked with your dealer, who was very helpful. He reports that in his area, customers are finding better results with the pleated filters than with the micropure in Onzen-equipped spas. Your dealer wants to work with you on this to be sure that your system is working properly and that you are completely satisfied. Please get in touch with him. Take advantage of the support available to you through your dealership (just as you are taking advantage of the support available to you on the forum! )

You have an experienced dealer who will be glad to help you with any questions you may have. Please give him a call.

"Therapy Air" is a trademark. Comments in this thread (noise, temperature reduction) are accurate. The turbulence is visually pleasing to some, and the ripple of bubbles over the skin gives tactile pleasure to some. One of our customers in Cyprus wrote that on a hot evening, "A dip in the bubbles is brilliant." But in the winter? Brrr.

No. It's not that bad for the average person. My wife (5' 2") can do it but finds it difficult and awkward. Cover lifter makes it easier for both of us. Also, without lifter, to close up she had to push the cover over and let it drop onto the spa, which reduces cover life and risks mashing the cat who is leaning on the lip admiring the water (or whatever it is that makes cats get up on the lip of a hot tub). Lifter makes putting cover back easier too.

An ozone system will not replace the need for sanitizing chemicals. It may help to reduce the amount of sanitizer that you need. The difference between a "cell" and a "cartridge" is about the difference between a "car" and an "automobile". I can't speak about FWIII, but I can tell you about Onzen. Onzen is more than ozone - it also uses salt to automatically create sanitizer. (Places that don't have a salt system may tell you it's no good - see this article.) In the US, Onzen also uses silver ions to inhibit bacteria growth. So our people sometimes call it a "triple threat" system. But even so, it will not provide total water care. You (the owner) will still need to do regular water testing, regular water maintenance (adding chemicals), and so on, whether with Onzen or FWIII. The idea is to make it a little easier. I hope that's clear and in "layman's terms". As usual, Roger has got right to the point! You've picked two good units. Although I obviously have a bias, from a consumer's point of view whichever choice you make will be a good one.

I have used them for a greenhouse vent. We lost the first one when a gust of wind flipped the vent open and bent the lifter. I added a restraining chain so the vent couldn't open too far. We lost that when a gust of wind ripped out the hinges, destroyed the vent (but thanks to the chain, it didn't blow away!), and bent the lifter. I nailed a cover over the vent hole and went with a heat-activated fan, far more expensive, but windproof. Sounds like it might be worth a try. Those lifters do have a limited load capacity (1 lb??) - investigate and see if it will lift the weight of your insulated door.

As a moderator, I thank you for your excellent post which shows that the forum is doing a good job with its intended purpose of providing information and guidance to people looking for a hot tub. As the Arctic Spas factory spokesman, I thank you for your clear and candid comments about the dealer and the buying process. Please PM me with the name of the dealer so I can discuss this with them. Also, I'd like your permission to use the parts of your post about water quality and trip charges in our dealer newsletter as part of our ongoing training program. Happy hot tubbing Tom

Welcome back! The Fredericksburg store has closed. I met Frank during his factory training and found him both knowledgeable and enthusiastic. I wish him well wherever he has gone... We haven't left our customers in that area unsupported. If you or anyone else in the Fredericksburg area has warranty issues, please contact me (tom@goarctic.com) giving your name and spa serial number. Our customer service reps will be able to work through many issues over the phone, but for the heavy stuff we have a couple of factory authorized independent service agents to help you out. Just a note - your factory warranty covers parts and labor but not travel fees. Best wishes Tom

Y'know, I thought there were two TP type (please don't include Arctic with that. We're perimeter insulated). But when I checked the web sites they all say "full foam" now.

It's good to see that people are thinking of factors that would affect the results. The Alberta Research Council (here) did a study on thermal efficiency of hot tubs. The study attempted to control some factors--such as ambient temperature ("warm" test done at about 20C and "cold" test done at about -12C) indoors, so no wind; same floors, etc--and adjusted for others (water volume). If you study those results, you see will see that they fall into two clusters, a "well-insulated" group and a "poorly-insulated" group. There were variations within the groups: * Within the top group, the best performer used about two-thirds the energy of the worst performer in the group. * Within the bottom group, the 'best of the worst' used about half the energy of the bottom performer * Within the whole test, the top performer used about 1/4 the energy of the bottom performer - a pretty significant difference. You may be curious about the insulation of the two groups. Of the top group, two were full-foam (Hot Spring, Beachcomber) and two were perimeter insulated Arctics. Of the bottom group, one was perimeter (Coyote) and the others are full-foam according to their web sites, so no clear differences there. We have since revamped our entire Coyote line for improved performance. Eight spas is not a significant sample size and the results are suggestive more than conclusive.