JCE

Over the last few weeks I have developed alot of foam in the spa when I use my jets. I have had my water checked and it is OK...I use bromine and have an ozone generator. The water chemisty is fine and the water is clear. The water in the spa is only about 1.5 months old, and I do not use it more than 2-3 times a week usually alone. I really don't want to have to buy anti-foam, especially since this just developed (hoping it can be corrected). Anybody have any idea what is causing this, or is this just something that happens? I have a Sundance, bought new 2 months ago. Thanks.

This is almost the exact issue I had a few weeks ago. Search my name for the post. I wet-tested a Vanguard, and a Chelsea, along with the lounger models of each in the same price range (can't remember the names). In the end I chose the Sundance Chelsea because I liked it better, on top of the fact is was $1500 cheaper. I felt the Sundance jets were stronger, and I think it has 2.5 hp pumps vs 2.0 for the Vanguard. I was very tempted to buy a 2009 HS Grandee for $8800 from that dealer because of the size, but I didn't. That is a nice spa. The HS dealer was tossing in some Cancun for Vegas trip as well, though I didn't look at the details. Even if I liked the spas equally, then what would be the justification to spend more $ if I liked the dealers equally? Both brands are good and from what I have read here on this forum maintenance/durabilty issues are not a difference maker between the two. Appearance wise I did like the HS better but I'm not big into that. I like performance and cash in my pocket. Beware of the BS power consumption claims and since I don't like to be BS'd that may steer me away from that dealer. Yeah, put it in writing; like how would you prove them wrong? Buy a Sundance and run it side by side for a month with a the HS with a dedicated meter on each? And, the math doesn't add up for their claim comparing HP and the amount of insulation each spa has (basically equal). C'mon. The Sundance has 100% filtering on one of their pumps I believe, and only bypasses I think on the second pump. The cirulation pump never bypasses. This was not a deal breaker to me. BTW, I thought I was getting a good deal with the same as you on a 2010 Chelsea at $7400, minus the GFCI box and stainless jet covers. I think you are doing pretty good here on this deal. Take care.

Thanks for the replies. The connections from the GFCI panel to the main breaker box should be 2 hots, a neutral, and a ground for sure and I understand that. The guy at the electric parts house just told me something outta whack me when I bought the box.....he said (insisted) the spa should have 2 hots and a neutral to the GFCI panel, along with a ground. I think he is wrong because of the info on this thread, but hopefully some of y'all can confirm. Thanks.

Your spa guy is right all of the equipment in 90% of the sundance spas is 220 volt none of it is 110 so it reguires neutral. Edit: Never mind....Google is my friend.

My spa guy is telling me that from the spa to the GFCI panel it is two hots and one ground. No neutral. Between the panel to my breaker box will be the hots, neutral, and ground. Does this make sense? It is a Sundance. Thanks.

FWIW, I chose Sundance Chelsea after originally thinking I wanted the HS. I loved the way the HS looked, but the wet-test resulted in me buying the 780 series Sundance significantly cheaper than the HS's I was looking at. I liked the Sundance better once I got in it. HS is obviously a good brand, and somebody else may have chosen the HS over a Sundance, or any other top brand like D1. I suggest you do some testing before settling.

OK. I wet tested the Sundance Hamilton. It was nice, but I they also had a Chelsea I tested and I liked that better. The jets on either Sundance were stronger than the jets on the HS spas. They practically blew me out of the seat. I didn't feel the tradeoff of the extra corner seat for the lounger was worth it so I went with the Chelsea. HS makes a great spa but it wasn't for me, especially for $1500 more. I would've probably chosen the Sundance even if it was the more expensive brand, and this is their 780 series. Apples/apples I should've been comparing their 880 series vs the HS's. I ended up getting the Chelsea for 7300, cover, lifter, steps, delivery, and chemicals. So, I started off thinking I would buy the HS Envoy or the Sundance Hamilton, liked the HS Vanguard better than the Envoy, liked the Hamilton better than either, and ultimately chose the Chelsea over all of them. I ended up with something I never even considered initially. Always wet-test before spending this much cash on a spa.

After reading that link I don't think it applies to decks. I asked because I am building a deck right now before I buy my tub. It will be structurally adequate. I've been reading up on this today. I don't know how many "the difference between grounding and bonding" articles I've read today, but it is alot. My initial reply was because I thought this was some type of grounding issue..... Even after all the reading, all there in plane English, I still cannot understand why grounding the tub does not do what bonding does.

OK, I follow....it's to equalize voltage differential between the ground and the spa. Haven't really heard of this but like I said I don't do residential design. So what is the requirement if somebody puts a tub on a wooden deck?

If the slab is 2-3" thick, it probably doesn't have rebar in it. It may have wire mesh. If the tub is uniformly supported within the skirt you shouldn't have cracking under it. Cracking may occur around the perimeter because the slab under the tub may settle due to the local load it will receive, while the slab around it doesn't. The thing that causes cracking is differential settlement, not settlement itself. Think of walking in soft soil...the edge of your footprint would be like the edge of the spa and where the slab would crack. With a slab this lightly loaded it won't make a difference if you put it in the corner like you describe or in the middle so don't worry about that. The problem you may have is on older spas where they were supported in the middle only, unlike todays spas. My parents had a spa about 20 years ago that was like this; a situation like this means the middle may settle more than the perimeter (if the slab cracks at the center) skirt that somewhat supports the outter shell. Then you have problems. I agree with Pool Clown; if you are happy with the slab and don't feel compelled to replace it, put the spa on it and see what happens. That's what I would do. Now, the bonding issue is something that is a little confusing to me and I am currently researching; I have a call into a electrical engineering coworker. This apparently is a new requirement in the code to ground the rebar within the foundation. I think I read somewhere recently about bonding the rebar to the tub, which makes zero sense to me. I am a civil/structural engineer that works on the industrial side of things, and this is something I am not clear on. The problem you have is there is a good chance you have no steel in your slab. Then what? Maybe somebody can give me the lowdown on what the goal here is of the bonding, what the rebar is supposed to be connected to, etc. and we can go from there. I'm not sure this thin slab could be considered a "foundation" either, especially if it has no rebar in it so this requirement should go away. Sounds like a bunch of busy body code BS to me.....I'm not a fan of rehashing of codes every couple of years making up new requirements on engineering priciples that have been around many years.

Well, I can confirm you better wet test before buying. The recliner in the Hot Springs Envoy would not fit my body, so that is $8600 that will not get spent. They also had a Vanguard for wet test and I actually liked that one alot better. Problem with that is, though it is a 7'-4" tub, it seemed small. They have a Grandee at a good price. This wet test may have cost me some $. I will test the Hamilton and also a Sundance without a recliner. Thanks for the wet-test advice.

Both sides could be argued. I could say I like the Envoy more and what's $1k more spread over the 12+ years you'll be owning this spa if that’s the one you want. I could also say I like the Sundance too so why not pocket the $$. In the end, let your backside help you decide: wet test them. OK. Thanks for the reply. Wet test will decide, though I'm not sure the Sundance dealer has a Hamilton filled.....if the Envoy blows me away then I am not sure how many level's of "like" there are above that. I'm not sure how long that floor model at that price will stick around. Thanks.

I'm always hip to round spas with square dimensions.

Are you saying if I like both equally after a wet test, I would be throwing $ away by spending more for the Hot Springs? The HS has Wavemaster Pumps, Silentflo circ pump, Freshwater III Ozone. Sundance has Theraflo pumps, ? circ pump, Sunzone ozone. Are these accessory models a wash in terms of quality? This is the type of question that is baffling me. Thanks alot for your time.

First post here but I have been lurking for a few weeks since I decided to buy a tub. It is hard to distinguish whether something is "worth it" when it comes to some of the upper end spas. I have a quote for a 2010 Sundance Hamilton for 7600, and I think I can get them lower. I also have a quote for a 2009 Hot Springs Envoy for 8600. I think this is a really good price and I may not be able to get them down any more. I have sat in both tubs and plan to do a wet test soon. I think I will like both. The only thing that is apparent is the 780 Sundance series doesn't have stainless jets as standard. It does have a 10 year shell warranty vs 7 for the Hot Springs. They have about the same amount of jets, 2 pumps, circulation pump, ozone, cover/lifter, etc. The Hamilton does come with stairs but the Hot Springs comes with GFCI box. The Hot Springs is a really nice spa, and side by side it stands out from this Sundance. But is it really worth 1000-1500 more than this Sundance? I guess what is swaying me is the deal I am getting on the Envoy, but still it is more money. I'm concerned this is the BMW/Lexus argument. Any thoughts on what could set these 2 particular models apart would be appreciated. Thanks.