summit11
-
Posts
38 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Posts posted by summit11
-
-
Hi there,
I have passed your contact information to the head of our R&D this morning. He has tried both contact numbers that were attached to your email. He has told me he will continue to try to reach you. I know it can be a frustrating thing when you may get conflicting advice, however we are here to help. If you prefer, you may contact us directly at the factory - 1-800-309-1744.
Sincerely,
Vern
-
Sorry, didn't let James' reply load before I responded. Hope you are getting the help you need.
Vern
-
NNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!AAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
Well, I've been gone for a while and very sad to hear Tom is gone because it does not seem anyone else cares to provide service for Arctic. I love my tub and things do go wrong. If I had realized how poor service was for Arctic and how bad there dealer networks were, I may have considered another product.
For the past few months, my pump/motor has been having issues and my warranty expires next month. My tub is now not usable and I suspect I am screwed. If anyone knows how to get service, please contact me asap.
Artic Cub
Hi there,
Sorry you are having some problems. Please PM me your spa serial number and contact information and I will get you the help you need.
Vern
Vern Nelson
North American Factory Rep
Blue Falls Manufacturing
vnelson@goarctic.com
-
We had our new Arctic Summit installed on November 20th and we just did our first empty and re-fill on New Year's Day. The filter we took out was not the same as the filter we put in...even though we asked for the correct disposable one at the Arctic store, and bought 3 for $100. (supposedly to last 9 months total?). The one we took out was in a cartridge, or casing...top and bottom had plastic inserts. The ones we bought at the store are just the 'cloth' filters, with no casing. When I phoned the store back they said that the original factory installed filters had "issues" and had been recalled, but that they would be back on the shelf 'soon'. Sooo, now I'm left wondering which filter we should really be using. Of course the guy at the store says either one is just fine....but I'm left wondering. Does anybody know about which filter is best? I was told both are no-maintenance (ie don't take it out periodically to rinse).
The lifespan of disposable filters can vary with water conditions and bather load, but 3-4 months is not abnormal. There was no filter "recall", this salesperson was misinformed perhaps. Either one of the two filters you described is fine, and gives fairly similar performance. Most Arctic dealers worldwide will carry the end-capped versions moving forward.
Regards,
Vern
-
Just bought a brand new Arctic Spa Yukon 2 weeks ago. Lost power for 5 days in a row due to the ice storm that crippled Eastern Ontario/Ottawa area. When power was restored we opened up the tub to see the temperature....76 degrees! Unreal. We bought this tub on a neighbours recommendation because of the insulation and how they can handle the elements. Needless to say it passed its first test with flying colours. In addition it has been an amazing tub. Very comfortable with several different seating options. We are using the AquaFinesse product and it is working very well. Water levels are good, water is clear, and we smell just fine after getting out.
Also I want to mention the Arctic Spa Durham team for excellent delivery, service, and follow-up. During this "crisis" we did contact them and got their recommendations. They have been A1 and I recommend buying from them if you are going to get an Arctic.
Glad to hear, other than the weather of late, that its been a good experience. Happy Tubbin'!
Vern
-
check the easy operating sheet ( its like a cheat sheet ), you should have your cp setting at 6 to start, this produces the chlorine 24hrs a day until you reach a good level, 5 is 20 hrs a day, 4 is 16 hrs ,,,, and so on,,, I have mine at 3 its just me using the tub every 2nd day, when filling the tub did you guys put in the salt? make sure you have the correct level of salt. I am new as well but the maintence is very easy once you get the hang of it, I use a cap of refresh 1 a week or If a few people stop by for a tub I put some after they leave and run the boo cycle for 20 minutes.
like I said I am new but am loving my Arctic
Thanks.
They definitely put salt in...and gave me the residual salt container.
I don't think i got a cheat sheet, but I'll look again. I was not informed about the "low level" programming. Does that mean accessing the onzen generator via the wood panels? Where in relation to the external "high level" controls is the onzen generator? Do you turn a dial? I can't find anything on the Arctic site and I think my dealer was more interested in making the sale than helping. Or maybe they have been really busy and overwhelmed with the Holidays, etc.
So, if I turn the onzen system to 6, I should see the Cl level on dipstick and the ORP reading increase. Sounds good. I'll try to figure this out. On the good side, we've used the spa a lot and see no signs of water impurity.
cp setting is in the low level programming, you have to hold the filter button for 20 seconds, than push the arrow button ( tempurature button ) a few times, and you will see the cp setting ? depending on what it is set at, I would change it to 6 if you are always in the tub and the cl is low, as your body will use a lot of it up while your in the tub, then adjust from here, don't wory you will get all the help you need from Arctic, you will also get the answers your looking for on this Forum just remember people are on holidays, I have not had to touch anything else on my tub. WHAT is your CP set at?
I did find the cheat sheet and set the CP to "6." I was at "3." Checked the Onzen (inside the cabinet) and it was set at highest level. I will recheck the ORP in a day or so. What is your ORP reading? The installer said > 400 is what you want. It sounds like even higher is better. Like I said, mine is at 150 or so.
Where are things at now? Sorry, just got back from the break today, but here to help if you need.
Vern
-
Yes, they these are threaded, so yes they go counterclockwise to unscrew. My question is can theses be unscrewed under water with no issue... and can they be replaced with different jet faces... ie, interchangeable.
Absolutely they can.
Vern
-
What do you guys think? Should I take the snow off....or leave it on the cover until I am ready to use the tub?
I have a good cover, with the higher density foam so support is not an issue.
It has about 10" of snow on it now.....do you think it is helping insulate much?
Just curious and bored with nothing to do but watch it snow.
Its a total pain, but I can't imagine using my tub inside a gazebo or other shelter - this year its been an every day, or every second day task - not worried about the cover, worried about my back lifting the snow-loaded cover every night! Happy Holidays All!
-
Again I would like to thank everyone for there responses.
Summit11, can you comment on why I am getting the impression that I should stay away from Paradise Bay?
Are there other stores in Calgary that I can purchase Arctic Spas from?
Thanks,
Kevin
Hi Kevin,
Paradise Bay is the only authorized Arctic Spa Dealer in Calgary. I think the criticism that you might see here of P-Bay is similar to criticism of Arctic Spas generally on this board. We are the largest manufacturer and retailer of spas in Canada, and Paradise Bay is similarly a very large, very successful operation. Given the scale with which we operate in Canada and the large number of Canadians that use this board, we are going to see in my opinion, a disproportionate number of negative comments versus other manufacturers, and in the case of P-Bay, retailers. With success comes the daunting task of maintaining success, and its an ever-growing challenge. But knowing the staff at Paradise Bay, they are doing their best to provide the service that we all intend. If and when there are gaps in that service, we have committed corporately to helping out wherever we can.
I hope that helps a bit, my only suggestion would be to talk with the management at P-Bay, and let them know how important the dealer-customer relationship is to you. I think they can reassure you that they are on your side.
Best of the Season,
Vern
-
I just came from Paradise in Calgary where the salesman introduced me to a model called the Alaskin 30. He told me that Arctic Spas built this tub specifically for the Calgary and Edmonton stores because they complained that they need a more affordable tub during these difficult economic times. He also indicated that I would not find it on the manufacturers web site because these two stores are piloting this model and if it works out, they will add it to the Arctic product line. Apparently this tub has been in the stores for approx. 1 year, but I have not been able to find anything on this model on the net.
Can anyone offer any insight to this model?
Thanks,
Kevin
Hi Kevin,
Sorry I totally missed your post over the last couple of visits. I think you are getting accurate information from the folks at P-Bay. At this time, the Alaskan 8' and the Midnight Sun 7' are indeed being offered only in limited markets. Both are available in 20 and 30 jets options, and are designed for those who want the benefit of a lot of Arctic design without some of the bells and whistles. There is a small list of optional equipment. At this time we have nothing online on these models - your dealer is your best source for more info and for pricing.
Best of the Holidays,
Vern
-
12 below zero last night here in Sturgeon Lake.
Beautiful ice fog at -37C (-34F) this morning just south of Edmonton, AB. (At least we didn't get 100cm of snow like our friends in Ontario). My spa lost 4 degrees in 45 minutes or so, but still a nice session. I always like the venturis open, so some of that heat loss could have been prevented I suppose...Season's Greetings to All!
-
Of course the day our hot tub arrives happens to be the first snowstorm of the year in the Toronto area. Amazingly the tub arrived only 45 minutes late but with the electrician also delayed 45 minutes it all came together. The drop off and install went without a hitch. Everything was done and the hot tub 3/4 full 90 minutes later. The set up people were great. Gave us all the documentation, brief on hot tub maintenance, ran through all the controls and shared some of their own personal experiences with their own hot tubs.
Over all the delivery and set up process was an A+.
Due to extremely high winds in our area we where unable to enjoy tub till two days later (last night). Wow....well worth it.
The tub works great, everything does what it's suppose to do so far. We cannot wait to surprise the kids with it when they visit at Christmas.
A most sincere "Thank you!" for your business from all of us at Arctic Spas, and hope you have a great time with your new spa over the holidays!
Vern
-
Joy was a sarcastic comment...not my name. I'll get the model number when I get home from work.
Thank you for submitting your information - I talked to Christian this morning. Let me know how things are progressing as this moves forward.
Vern
-
Can't get dealer help!!! I don't know if it is unwilling or unable, but my fustration has climaxed. FLO error on tub...called dealer last Saturday, they charged me the $95 trip fee UP FRONT for a Monday Appointment. Monday came and went with no tech. Called on Monday evening and was told the tech was there, he talked to Kevin. My name is Justin. Tech was not here. Called back and was told they would be there FIRST THING tomorrow!! Tuesday at noon, no tech. Called again. The same lady answered the phone was told me, "Your appointment is for the 7th, it's always been for the 7th." Then, why oh why did you tell me he was running late Monday and would be at our place FIRST THING Tuesday?
So, I get to look foward to a week of no usage...and by reading here, at least a new pump installed.
Joy.
Hi Joy,
Can you PM your spa serial number and your local dealer to me, and I will get in touch with them.
Vern
-
I will inquire and get back to you. Cheers!
Vern
Vern
wow... it seems that the way they pinch a cord through the box is more common than i thought...... noarctic, are you located in edmonton? I alos noticed that my board just has a hole in it for the other wires... no black gromet like those in that picture... are the wires suppoed to be sealed with a gromet for humidity not entering the board case?....Salp,
I'm not in Edmonton. I've been told factory spec. does not include a black grommet for these cables in and out of the spa pack. Factory spec. does not call for the holes for these cables to be water tight. As for pinching the cable, my tub was delivered that way. Spending over $10,000.00 for a tub and this is the best they can do?
I m pretty suprised that it is not needed (maybe not needed, but would be BETTER) ... the gromets.... does gecko not supply them with the boards/packs? I would like to see them on mine.....
-
wow... it seems that the way they pinch a cord through the box is more common than i thought...... noarctic, are you located in edmonton? I alos noticed that my board just has a hole in it for the other wires... no black gromet like those in that picture... are the wires suppoed to be sealed with a gromet for humidity not entering the board case?....
Salp,
I'm not in Edmonton. I've been told factory spec. does not include a black grommet for these cables in and out of the spa pack. Factory spec. does not call for the holes for these cables to be water tight. As for pinching the cable, my tub was delivered that way. Spending over $10,000.00 for a tub and this is the best they can do?
I m pretty suprised that it is not needed (maybe not needed, but would be BETTER) ... the gromets.... does gecko not supply them with the boards/packs? I would like to see them on mine.....
-
Hi Guys,
Just to echo what noarctic is saying, we don't require all wiring to be watertight on that side of the pack. As we move forward that is certainly a reasonable goal. Multiple wires coming out of one area, which can't use the rubber grommet method for example, get a shot of silicone to help resist some moisture. As for the pinched cable, likely it was left that way on delivery day (hate to throw the tech under the bus) but it makes no sense for it to come out of production that way. A few years ago, its was fairly acceptable to route small cables between the door of the pack and the side, as there was a notched area moulded right into the right side of the MSPA pack door designed by Gecko just for this purpose. Just asked some production guys about timeframe on that, they think maybe 3-4 years ago some of that was still being done, but again, that is not longer the practice.
Vern
wow... it seems that the way they pinch a cord through the box is more common than i thought...... noarctic, are you located in edmonton? I alos noticed that my board just has a hole in it for the other wires... no black gromet like those in that picture... are the wires suppoed to be sealed with a gromet for humidity not entering the board case?....Salp,
I'm not in Edmonton. I've been told factory spec. does not include a black grommet for these cables in and out of the spa pack. Factory spec. does not call for the holes for these cables to be water tight. As for pinching the cable, my tub was delivered that way. Spending over $10,000.00 for a tub and this is the best they can do?
-
To me, the wiki, while needing some post-2007 contribution, is reasonably clear and accurate. I am happy to clarify if required however, that Blue Falls Manufacturing is not in receivership, has never been in receivership and is doing well financially. Have a nice day.
Vern
update: Duh. got my wires crossed for a minute... Artic is receivership and talks that hotsprings make take them over? Really?I came to the same conclusion you did regarding the way the original poster stated the information. I didn't think that HS was in that kind of financial trouble, but I knew someone would jump on and post the correct information. Thanks for the clarification. Still, is Arctic in receivership? According to Wikipedia it was in 1994, but today?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_Spas
-
Okay, point taken, and sincere apologies. The quoted material was an observation of our work here, not worldwide, and I should not have made a blanket statement. Question though - as a mechie, would you think that the efficiency of a circ. pump system is greater or lesser, or similar to that of a cycled filtration system? Cheers! Vern"...Additionally, to provide the power that our Active Filtration system requires, a small circulation pump would be completely inadequate. They simply cannot draw water effectively through a depth filter like our 1 micron Silver Sentinel. One of our pumps on low speed uses a very comparable amount of energy to accomplish the same task as a 24 filtration pump, and as it does so, it adds to the ambient heat inside the cabinet, which in turn, reduces heater cycles...."
Speaking as a mechanical engineer I can truthfully say that's a load of sales driven BS. A circ pump WILL pull water through a fine filter - just a lot more slowly than a main pump on low speed. The math is simple, i.e. gallons per hour * runtime. A good example being that if you're only running the main pump for two hours per day, then the circ pump's flow rate can be 1/12 of that and still pump exactly the same volume of water per day.
Most of us joined this forum for unbiased, neutral advise from end users, and not to receive sales pitches.
Hey Vern - no offence taken, I'm sure the tubs you sell are just fine, but that sure was a very long sales pitch of yours!
Regarding mechanical efficiencies, a good analogy is to think of a 24 hour circ pump as a Sunday driver doing maybe 30 mph. It's obviously gonna take him 10 hours to travel 300 miles. Now...think of the main pump at half speed as the same car doing 150 mph and getting there in 2 hours. They've both achieved the same thing, but who's gonna use the most gas? The guy who does it at 150 mph of course. The reason being non-linear frictional losses encountered by both the the drivetrain and wind resistance.
Similar losses occur in a hot tubs plumbing system, i.e. the faster you try and push water around, the more frictional losses occur due to 'drag' caused by angle joints, and the inside of the pipes. Again, this is not a linear equation as water begins to behave as more of a 'solid' at high velocities, requiring disproportionally more 'pumping' power, and ultimately a higher electric bill.
Mikey,
*L* Again, my apologies. I have had wayyyy too many 4+ hour sales pitches in my past to always be brief, but I will spare you all that experience in the future. I really do wish to help our customers and to provide accurate information. Thanks for the kind reminder however.
Okay, very interesting on this topic though - I have long wondered if there was more to it than just flow rate and runtime. I know of some projects here that have worked on swept rigid PVC fittings to alleviate some of the drag perhaps not so much focused on filtration but on improving jetting efficiency. Tomorrow I will hassle some of the engineers here to see what they think...*L*Looking back, I think the point I was actually trying to get at is that in our experience, our desire to have a powerful top-skimming vortex as a key part of our filtration concept as well as the use of fine filter media led us to cycled filtration.
Have a great night...
V
-
Okay, point taken, and sincere apologies. The quoted material was an observation of our work here, not worldwide, and I should not have made a blanket statement. Question though - as a mechie, would you think that the efficiency of a circ. pump system is greater or lesser, or similar to that of a cycled filtration system? Cheers! Vern
"...Additionally, to provide the power that our Active Filtration system requires, a small circulation pump would be completely inadequate. They simply cannot draw water effectively through a depth filter like our 1 micron Silver Sentinel. One of our pumps on low speed uses a very comparable amount of energy to accomplish the same task as a 24 filtration pump, and as it does so, it adds to the ambient heat inside the cabinet, which in turn, reduces heater cycles...."Speaking as a mechanical engineer I can truthfully say that's a load of sales driven BS. A circ pump WILL pull water through a fine filter - just a lot more slowly than a main pump on low speed. The math is simple, i.e. gallons per hour * runtime. A good example being that if you're only running the main pump for two hours per day, then the circ pump's flow rate can be 1/12 of that and still pump exactly the same volume of water per day.
Most of us joined this forum for unbiased, neutral advise from end users, and not to receive sales pitches.
-
HI Nigel,
James is back tomorrow or the day after I believe, and he has been using Aqua Finesse in his spa. He wll have better information than I do, I'm sorry. I'll be sure to get him in touch with you.
Vern
It's been a while since i have been on here, but i retrieved my password and can now once again question Onzen and artic Spa.Today i drained my tub as once again it had gone to the dogs.
I have refilled the tub half with normal tap water and half via my water softner.
As i needed more Onzen salt i popped in to my local Artic Spa dealer and found once again the whole set up of running an Onzen system has changed again.
I came out of the store $300 worse off, though i do hope it works!
I was advised to purchase the new Aqua Finesse to add to my Onzen salt, no more excess chemicals i was told.
I was also advised to purchase a new filter, a filter i was origonaly told not to buy 12 months ago. So i now have have the Pleatco Pure filter.
Upon the refil, i was advised to add 6 cups of Onzen salt to the tub, then the usual 2 caps of down every 2 hrs for 6 hrs.
Once my PH and ALK are fine, add the Aqua Finesse and all should be good.
My question is, if this is the new way forward, how come Arctic don't contact customers to let them know?
I have had my spa for 13 months and still the setup and what to do keeps changing.
Secondly, The Electrode looks like it has a calcium build up on it one again, i have already had 2 replaced, is anyone else constantly having the same problem,
The store told me to contact the service people and they may tell me how to clean it?
The store advised that this new Aqua Finesse will help control the calcium and i would no longer have to use Best Defence.
I have a Sumit Spa, is anyone else using the Aqua Finesse?
Nigel
-
Hi Great White,
Efficiency - Ah, the quagmire of efficiency. To the good side of this, society's attention to green issues has begun to ratchet up attention on efficiency within the spa industry. I think between this, and the current economic conditions, we are seeing fewer of the really, really bad energy-use offenders out there. The California Energy Compliance Testing that was done earlier this year has been a start, but self-reporting has lead to some fairly comical statements. IMHO Cal Poly's testing is fraught with inaccuracies and is going to require a lot of work before it really represents any real benefit to the consumer. On the topic of testing, Blue Falls Manufacturing (manufacturer of Arctic Spas) is working with the Canadian Federal Government to develop a much more relevant set of testing criteria for the spa industry domestically - however at this time the Alberta Reseach Council's report on Thermal Performance Test of Spas remains, to my knowledge, the only 3rd party scientific study done on cold weather efficiency of hot tubs. What this test clearly stated (and I believe as you read, accurately) was that Arctic Spas use less power, particularly as the temperature drops, than any other of the spas in this study. I am not sure what confused other posters on this topic, the results are quite clear and quite decisive in the favor of the Arctic product.
Vern, I see the HS coming out on top overall. I see the Arctic winning at some temps but considering the water volume difference between the Arctic and the HS if you calculate a higher volume for the HS it will come out the winner in even more catagorys. Sorry I guess I am reading it differently. Add to that a thicker cover and I think you'll see the Arctic can hold it's own but the HS was the true winner. Besides Arctic garnered the test to there specs which IMO skews the results. And who cares anyway when we are talking pennys.
Of course, welcome to your own opinion. The Hot Springs did not run any filtration during the test, which likely help it achieve the position it did. We did not garnered (sic) to there (sic) specs actually. Once we bought all the spas we could not be involved at all. The Alberta Research Council is mandated to do 3rd party testing by our provincial government in many different areas including manufacturing, oil and gas, advanced materials - they are not in the business of fixing results for hot tub companies I assure you. Additionally, if the cover mattered it should be a part of the spa, its like saying you could add more insulation if you wanted to. I do take your point however, that we are not arguing over huge amounts of money.
Cheers!
Vern
-
Thanks for your response, but the point doesn't ring true for me. Most of the models from the states don't seem to consider our harsher climate and it's requirements. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying products from the states are poor quality or inferior, just that the materials and construction is different. Diffent enough to warrant purchasing a more "climate specifc" product.
Also, I'm not so sure of the "most efficient" being made in california. I suppose that depends on your testing criteria. The Alberta research council tested 8 spas, Arctic and beachcomber came out on top of some expensive states manufacturers (hot springs and sundance comes to mind). At the very least, ahead of the States models that are available for purchase in my area and I'm not interested in purchasing online/shipping from out of province....
I have also considered beachcomber, but have discounted them for reasons other than efficiency. They seem a good quality tub, and I've heard lots of good comments about them (even by competitors) but it won't suit or needs/requirements as mentioned about shipping in our original post.
Dude, you have been drinking waaaay too much Arctic Kool-aid!! Do some searches in here and around the web and read some of the experiences other Arctic owners have had. I try to buy Canadian as much as I can too, for example, almost all of my son's goalie equipment is high-quality, Canadian made stuff. But - first and foremost, it has to be high-quality for me to even consider it. I would not buy a Canadian product simply because it was made here, if it was inferior to something else that happened to be made south of the border. If you buy a hot tub strictly because you think that the best tubs for our climates HAVE to be made here in Canada, you are sadly mistaken and may end up with an inferior, Canadian-made product. Other than the Arctic propaganda, what research have you done to make you so sure that products made in the States can't handle our harsher climate and it's requirements? Can you post a link to the Alberta Research Council test results? Seems to me that you have swallowed Arctic's sales pitch, hook - line - and sinker! Just out of curiosity, have they tried to push you into Peroxysan too?
Hi there,
The study is not available online, but I can email it to you as a PDF if you would like. The study is getting old, but to my knowledge its about all there is out there. The industry is make slowwww steps to create testing that may help customers make better informed decisions, but it will take time.
Peroxysan is not approved by Blue Falls Manufacturing, and dealers who have chosen to carry this product have been so advised.
Sincerely,
Vern
-
Hi Great White,
Firstly, a sincere thank you for considering our product. I know quite a few military and commercial pilots worldwide that have become interested in our spas - I do believe that time in one of our spas (particularly a Glacier, more on this later) would provide you with the therapy you are looking for. I also wanted to thank you for the career you have chosen - for guy like me who heads to your part of the world whenever possible (love salmon/halibut fishing!) its always a reassuring feeling to see your equipment when I land in Victoria or Comox. Thank you for your service to our country! Having said that, I really hope I never need a ride...
Anyhow, back to the spas...I will try to add some information relevant to your post, and to wade through the posts that have followed your initial, and will attempt to correct the numerous inaccuracies strewn about.
Therapy - You are considering what I believe to be the most therapeutic spa in our current lineup. Particularly in the men's, or deeper therapy seat you have a fantastic arrangement of 5" rotating bearing-less jets. (As you have pointed out, all Arctics are now 100% equipped with thread-in/out jets.) The Glacier was the first mould design I had when I started with Arctic and having used so many spas since then, both of our and other manufacture, its still stands out in terms of its ability to give a great powerful massage. As an additional note, if you are considering a Signature or Ultra jetting package (2 pump versions), you will have the ability to have the entire flow rate of one pump (270 gal/min) to either side of the spa - you don't have to divert any flow at all. In my experience, with all the jets active and the venturi air at full, its all I could take. Of course you can dial this back in several ways, but...like passing speed in a car, its nice to have if you want it! The other item I would mention in terms of therapy, and I do hope you experience this in wet test, is the comfort provided by dual level armrests in these therapy seats. Until you have a spa without, then with armrests, you can't fully appreciate the relief that they offer.
Shipping - All Arctic Spas are shipped vertically all around the globe. Over the past 2 years we have worked on our packaging to improve it as well - the product that is shipped today has high-density polystyrene bumpers that fit tightly on all the rail corners (8 in total) and are reusable. The product is also wrapped in thin layer of foam sheet before it is shrink wrapped. I would suggest keeping the bumpers with you (and pallet if possible) and shrink wrapping the spa when its move time again. To say our cabinet is strong would be an understatement, however one should also consider the shell strength when talking about moving these things around. I know of no other self - supporting shell in the world, and we continue to improve on that strength. (i.e. - Our new fiberglass resin technology (N.E.A.T.) is now 100% filler-free and allows us to build more strength into each mm of thickness.) If a transfer to the east coast is a possibility we have great dealers in that part of Canada as well...
Foundation - There is currently no stronger floor in the world than a Forever Floor. Period. There are manufacturers out there that have pushed this forward this past year, and that's a great thing - but a SMC pressure moulded floor is still a lot stronger than an ABS vac-moulded product, (which is basically the next best thing). You can place a Forever Floor-equipped Arctic on any level surface with the fullest confidence that it will not have an issue. I would take my due diligence to compare between what a salesman claims, and what the warranty says on this point. It is fairly common practice in my experience, for salesmen to overstate this claim when they are up against Arctic for their commission. Most warranties will have a phrase similar to "must be on an approved surface", or an "engineered pad" which is the out for them when your shell cracks due to torsional load it cannot handle, i.e. - from an uneven foundation. "Approved" is open to a great deal of interpretation, little of which will be on your side I can assure you. I know at Arctic we have never denied a shell failure claim based on surface preparation. Caveat emptor ...
Strength is key, but the ability to resist the intrusion of moisture and pests is important too. Any floor that flexes opens the possibility for this to happen. Lastly, in your situation, the grooves that are moulded into the floor will come in handy on move day!
Cover Strength - A Castcore Mylovac cover can support over 1000lbs. per side. It truly is the definition of "made for the world's harshest climates." Taking into consideration the considerable time and money we've spent to create this cover we are acknowledging that heat does in fact rise, and that consistently and effectively trapping that rising heat should be a big priority. Manufacturers who trumpet insulation below or to the side of the thermal mass, but largely ignore the placement of effective insulation on top of that thermal mass cause me to question the integrity of their insulation argument. The Castcore Mylovac cover certainly is one of the key attributes that has grown from the geographic location we R&D our product. Seeing hundreds and hundreds of covers collapse under heavy ice/snow loads, and then creating and testing and providing something better is a result of the fairly unique experience to those who inhabit, and want to hot tub in the beautiful northern parts of the world.
Efficiency - Ah, the quagmire of efficiency. To the good side of this, society's attention to green issues has begun to ratchet up attention on efficiency within the spa industry. I think between this, and the current economic conditions, we are seeing fewer of the really, really bad energy-use offenders out there. The California Energy Compliance Testing that was done earlier this year has been a start, but self-reporting has lead to some fairly comical statements. IMHO Cal Poly's testing is fraught with inaccuracies and is going to require a lot of work before it really represents any real benefit to the consumer. On the topic of testing, Blue Falls Manufacturing (manufacturer of Arctic Spas) is working with the Canadian Federal Government to develop a much more relevant set of testing criteria for the spa industry domestically - however at this time the Alberta Reseach Council's report on Thermal Performance Test of Spas remains, to my knowledge, the only 3rd party scientific study done on cold weather efficiency of hot tubs. What this test clearly stated (and I believe as you read, accurately) was that Arctic Spas use less power, particularly as the temperature drops, than any other of the spas in this study. I am not sure what confused other posters on this topic, the results are quite clear and quite decisive in the favor of the Arctic product.
Filtration - It has been our experience that 24 hour filtration is useful in our climate only to prevent stationary water in uninsulated equipment enclosures from freezing. Circulation pumps are not expressly "more efficient", they are typically not rebuildable and, in our opinion, they are a redundant piece of equipment. Additionally, to provide the power that our Active Filtration system requires, a small circulation pump would be completely inadequate. They simply cannot draw water effectively through a depth filter like our 1 micron Silver Sentinel. One of our pumps on low speed uses a very comparable amount of energy to accomplish the same task as a 24 filtration pump, and as it does so, it adds to the ambient heat inside the cabinet, which in turn, reduces heater cycles.
Cost - Yep, ours usually cost more money. EMG motors cost more. Reflex Torsion hose costs more. Resin is going through the roof. Gecko MSpa Packs cost more than SSpa, or most others. Having people hand roll fiberglass in (3) three stages costs a startling amount of money, particularly in Alberta where the coffee guy makes $20/hr. On and on it goes. Here, we are up to our eyeballs in engineers and R&D guys, they outnumber sales people like 9 to 1, and neither work cheap...I say cost is the cost of finding solutions, not just summarily reassembling parts that are "adequate", putting a different pillow logo in and calling it the best.
You know, I guess I am I'm biased...*L*...I have drank the cool-aid, I wear the underwear. I have also been to most of our competitors show rooms, I have listened to their sales pitches with an open mind over and over again, and battled for deals all over this continent.
But, and I truly believe this - an Arctic will likely be the last spa you buy. As one of our owners has said - "we never intended to be known as the biggest, just the best..."
Whew...lots to think about. Maybe we can take it all back to the part where its fun to be in this thing? IMHO, the Glacier is one of the most comfortable spas we have ever built, and I particularly liked the seating arrangement as my wife and I could together look out across what another poster so kindly called "the middle of nowhere".
If I can be of any help whatsoever, just PM.
All the Best, in whichever spa is best for you.
Sincerely,
Vern
So we’ve got it narrowed down to two spa models:Arctic spas 2009 Glacier and (a newer company) H2ospas 2009 Radium Therapy model.
Both are Canadian companies and we intend to purchase Canadian. Not as a result of some sense of “patriotism” (although it is a nice plus), but because construction on Canadian models seems much more suited to the Canadian climate (insulation, construction materials, cover strength, etc). Kind of makes sense when you think about it: can a California manufacturer ever understand 3 feet of snowfall overnight, 4 months of rain (BC) or -25 C temps?
I think not…….Canadian manufacturer it is.
The spa is only for my wife and I, mainly for relaxing but I also intend to use it for “therapy”. I am in military Search and Rescue flying the Cormorant helicopter and I have various strains and injuries from my job that heat and massage will help (according to the doctors).
The arctic spa seems a nice piece. It’s essentially a 41 inch deep 2 seater with and option for 3 or 4, but only if you don’t mind getting “cozy” in the foot well. The thing we like about it is the quality “feel” it has, the waterfall design, handsome cedar cabinet, good construction, useful cup holders, what appears to be very comfortable seating and it’s fairly intimate as we sit side by side but in our own loungers instead of at the extreme corners. It’s even designed as a “his and her” tub with a different contour in each lounger that fits the wife and I very well. With all those (somewhat) exclusive features comes a worry of proprietary parts. In this economy and businesses folding like houses of cards, the word "proprietary" is a very bad thing. Lots of the forums have complaints about Arctic with things like popping jets, but this model is all screw in jets. Unfortunately, it only has blue led lights in the foot well and no “northern lights”. I suspect this could be added by changing the led or a controller at worst. No “ozenator”, but I’m OK with that as there seems to a lot of complaints related to it. Good “old fashioned” chemicals for us. It's also not very easy to get in and out of as there are no steps to lead you down into that deep tub. The biggest hitch is the thing is terribly expensive, even with the year end sale prices we’re looking at around 11,000 out the door.
The other model is a newer company known as h2ospas. It grew out of pacific spas (recently bankrupted) when a couple of employees split off 4-5 years ago after seeing the “writing on the wall” for pacific spas solvency. Pacific spas were reputed to be pretty high quality units. The dealer used to sell Pacific and had a customer’s spa in the back with all the new H20 models. After seeing the two side by side, design and construction is almost identical, not surprising as the shop owner related the H2ospas owner was the one who designed the particular tub model for both pacific (when employed there) and H2o that were sitting side by side. The unit is not as pretty as the Arctic spa with a traditional looking cabinet, but it is 40 inches deep, comfortable (even when dry) and uses quality (but generic) hot tub components. Other features we liked were HUGE foot well compared to all other makers and very large steps into the tub (important as we get older or for kids. It is also available with more options (albeit not necessary ones - speakers, rainbow lights, waterfalls, etc) than the arctic spa at a nicer $8400 less out the door.
Both dealers threw in entrance steps and cover lifters, although the H20 spas dealer (Clarks the water shop in Campbell River BC) threw in a double shock cover lifter that folds down behind the spa and the arctic dealer was just a pivoting model.
Both related they could be placed on a flat but unprepared surface (even grass if solid enough), mainly as a result of the sealed bottom (forever floor for arctic, poly/abs floor for H2o). Since I’m in the military and moved on average every 3-5 years, not having to pour a slab each time is a potential cost savings in the future for us. It also means a yard is relatively easily returned to it’s original state, a plus when you sell your house and wanted the area grassed instead of a big blank concrete slab.
The other thing we liked about the H2ospas is "ship-ability". The arctic has a very nice Cedar cabinet that I would not expect to ship well on its side. Movers are notorious for damaging items when moving military members, and the H2ospas clean flat sides would ship well with less chance of damage. Heck even the H2ospas dealer stores them on thier side in the back to get more in there. As a side note, everyone I know (in the military) who has had their spa moved has been shipped on its side. This was actually a feature that turned us off on beachcomber- having the mechanicals sticking out instead of tucked in neatly presented a high probability of shipping damage for us.
So, anyone have any advice or experience with either the Glacier or Raduim (h2ospas.ca) before we part with our hard earned cash?
Sundance Maxxus Vs. Arctic Klondiker Le
in Portable Hot Tubs & Spas
Posted
Hi there,
Please call me directly, at 1-800-309-1744, x329. I'll get you the help you are looking for...
Thanks,
Vern
Vern Nelson
North America Factory Sales Rep
Blue Falls Manufacturing - Manufacturer of
Arctic Spa®, Coyote Spa®, Apollo Spa®, Guild Billiards and Arctic Gazebos
vnelson@goarctic.com
www.goarctic.com
1-800-309-1744 x329