n1oty

I pulled some condoms out of one recently. John

The flow switch is not adjustable and is probably OK. Your circ pump is probably fine also. When pump #1 runs on your tub, some of the water flow is re-directed through the heater circuit. The electronics shut down the circ pump during this time. If pump #1 does not run when it should, this is the problem that you get. John

Why don't you start by checking the motor fuse. John

Well, shaft seal leaks would be easily spotted, so if you don't actually see moisture at the shaft I doubt that is the cause. John

The same pump that turns on during the clean cycle will turn on if you hit that particular jet button or when it comes on automatically. If the jets are all running, you have filtration also. And yes, the circ pump draws through the filter. It's low flow though, 12 GPM or less, so it is hard to tell. John

/ I thought HS is very adament about who does the wiring and how thy will honor the warranty unless licensed pro does it? They won't know PROVIDED it is done correctly. John

The firmware basically re-reads its instructions at midnight according to the built in timer. When you restarted your tub, it was probably during the day. The default filtration setting is for 24 hour circ pump operation commencing at midnight, so the next time it hits midnight, it will "re-issue" that instruction to the electronics. I wouldn't obsess over this. The tub will still heat normally. If you are concerned about the lack of filtration during this time, just run pump #1 on high speed for half an hour. A half hour on high speed will provide the same amount of filtration as 6 hours or so of circ pump operation. John

No, they don't all leak. I have a 20 year old Jacuzzi that has never leaked. There are two main reasons that a tub springs leaks, either it's a poor quality tub or the tub has been abused chemically. John Or most commonly in my climate, they are improperly drained and left 'empty' during freezing season without being properly winterized. Oh yeah, that is always a huge money maker for me. John

oh ok I did not know I could put the silicone in the tub itself, I will go do the now... ThNks alot No, don't do that. Unthread the fitting on the inside of the tub, pull the back jet fitting away from the tub, thoroughly clean the old silicone off, put new silicone on the flat flange of the rear jet piece only, hold that fitting lightly against the tub and have someone re-insert and hand tighten the front jet piece. John

Do you mean a VS510? If so, I think you are stuck with 2 filter cycles. John

No, they don't all leak. I have a 20 year old Jacuzzi that has never leaked. There are two main reasons that a tub springs leaks, either it's a poor quality tub or the tub has been abused chemically. John

Do a load calculation. The process and general electrical amounts for various household equipment is listed in the NEC. It's not difficult to calculate. If the electrician is concerned, then you are probably at least borderline. John

Caldera tubs prior to 2001 or 2002 tended to use standard Balboa controls. Balboa topsides with a single heat button control both ways. Hit the heat button once to get the temp display flashing, then push the heat button again to move the temp. If it is going the wrong way, stop and let the temp display finish blinking. It only takes a few seconds. Once it stops blinking, hit the heat button again to get the display blinking, then use the heat button again to adjust the temp. John

I'd wait until you pick the spa to even begin this process. I agree. What happens if you wire up for 50 amps and then buy a tub that calls for 60. John

Yes, I will.

Everyone does, whether the results are there or not. Spatech, that's the most concise, dead-on-the-money response I've heard in a long time. John

Put me in the "I agree with the contractor's" category. John

Possibly, and it is certainly easy enough to do a capacitance test. John

It's usually sand or other debris that gets jammed between the nozzle and jet body. You should remove the nozzles and clean them before they really get screwed up badly. If they get too clogged, your only recourse may be to replace the nozzles. To prevent this from happening in the future, try brushing your feet off before getting in the tub. Also, check the environment around the tub for potential problems. For instance, if you have pine trees in the area, it may be prudent to sweep the area around the tub before using it. The sap from pine trees can be problematic. John

I love the logic of this post . You are not in the hot tub industry and don't work for Costco, yet you posit that the information you, Matt and Reef post is unbiased and factual, and that all the information advanced by the pro's here (including independent's with no axe to grind) is "incessant nonsense". So be it. Now I truly understand why I have become so busy with repair work even though the economy has tanked. At least I'll give Matt credit for one thing. This diary can be a useful tool, provided he is willing to keep it up for at least 5 or 6 years and provides regular updates. Oh, first up today is a Costco sold hot tub whose frame came apart, settled and cracked all the manifolds and some plumbing. At $135 for the first half hour and $95 an hour thereafter, this will be a very nice day. John

Could be a couple of things, bad motor or power down both windings simultaneously. Another possibility is a severe voltage drop at start up. John

Aw, poor babies. How about the spa makers start acting like professional businesses, figure out what their costs are, and learn to control their proceses so that they provide a decent and consistent product at the agreed to price? You seem to be arguing that this is somehow a Costco failing! That makes no sense! Keys and the others had problems. Costco may have sped up their demise by doing exactly what you claim they didn't do - held their feet to the fire. As far as I can see, If you're in a manufacturing business and don't know how to make a consistently good product, you should go under. Costco can't help that... they are not spa engineers or quality assurance people. But they can, and do, protect their members from getting poor product. This IS what they do, and they do it well. >> "Costco will get it right when someone at corporate decides that #3 is as important as #1 and #2. Your guess is as good as mine as to when/if that will happen." I'm sure the people at Costco will value your advice, but they are already doing it right. Costco in general doesn't sell low end stuff. Many of their house brand product are better than ANYTHING available elsewhere. Check out the tuna, for instance (canned for them by Bumblebee, and a much better product than Bumblebee brand)... and it costs MORE than name brand tuna, by the way. You criticize them for the sound business policies that protect their members and have enabled their success. Absurd! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is easy for you to say. We all understand that the prior manufacturers were all guilty. It didn't matter whether it was Hydro, Keys, Infinity or the others. They all were to blame. However, it is ludicrous for you to postulate that somehow Costco is blameless. They may not have realized that they had a serious problem when their first tub supplier went BK and left a LOT of people in the lurch and without warranty support. They may have still been clueless when their second tub supplier went BK and screwed a lot of customers. However, we are now at the point where half a dozen or more manufacturers have followed the exact same play book. It is disingenuous at best for Costco to essentially stick their head in the sand, claim not to know what is going on with their various tub manufacturers and pretend that somehow it is not of their doing. I'm sorry, but they are an accessory to the crime, whether they care to admit it or not. The pro's on this board will undoubtedly recall a few years back when Costco actually had a deal with Hot Springs and marketed the HS Highlife. Admittedly, this was an older HS design that was due to go out to pasture, but it was a solid tub with a solid reputation sold at a reasonable price. It didn't last with Costco though. Costco tried to squeeze HS on price and HS said no. Costco simply moved on to the less reputable side of this business and put their slippers under someone else's bed. Sorry, Costco knew exactly what they were doing and didn't care. They had a decent quality tub from a decent manufacturer and were content to walk away from HS and get in bed with the dogs. Costco knowingly walked away from a quality manufacturer.

My assertion is that the imports will eventually get it right. They enter the market with low priced crap. Then they build better and better products, eventually eclipsing that of the onshore mfg's. We'll see the shift from the "crap" phase to the "pretty good stuff" phase one day. Maybe we're seeing it now. It's very predictable, has shuttered dozens of onshore industries, and has gutted our nation's ability to produce. This is where I think Strong (i.e. Costco Evolution) has done something interesting. They've scrapped the wood frame concept in favor of a rotomold process (read high volume, cheap, minimal labor, sturdy). It's ideas like this, coupled with inexpensive offshore labor and an ultra-efficient big box supply chain that will create a commodity market. I don't know Keys, Infinity, etc. because I'm not a hot tub guy. But when I look at what Costco has on the market today, they're mainly selling Calspa (which I'd regard as a neutral brand on this forum), and Strong (which has been slammed PURELY on guilt by association with Costco's "former" brands, despite the fact that they seem to have been built with components acceptable in this forum in other entry level spas (Balboa VS, Waterway 56 frame pumps, etc.). I respect the experience and opinions on this board. I think the IRT's will always have spas to work on. But some of the critiques of the current big-box offerings are silly, and the attacks of folks that simply want to share their experiences are juvenile. These are your CUSTOMERS. The question is, when the big box stores prove they can bring a Lexus to the market at a Toyota price, are you going to welcome them? And you're telling me there are no technology, efficiency, or style differences between a 20yr old Jac and a new $8k tub made today? That tells me there is no innovation, and makes globalization with the new ideas it brings that much more of a risk. You make some huge assumptions here that have heretofor proved inaccurate in the marketplace. There are no instances where the cheaper foreign manufacturers have ever gotten it right by making as good or better product for less money. When engineers design any product, they have three parameters that drive their design: 1. Cut costs. 2. Improve quality. 3. Speed up delivery. The general concensus is that a manufacturer can usually deliver on any two of those three parameters. Back in the 80's and early 90's, this industry was focused on improving quality and speeding up delivery. In the late 90's, Jacuzzi started the ball rolling against the established paradigm by marketing those horrible Echo series tubs through Home Depot. Sure, they cut costs. Sure, they pumped up delivery. Guess what suffered. The paradigm you wish for could possibly work if consumers were willing to suffer long wait times for product delivery and service. Imagine the cost savings that could be achieved by cutting all overtime during peak spa season and just extending delivery times by a few months or having a customer wait a few weeks for warranty service so that maximum tech productivity could be achieved. However, I know from experience that most consumers will not tolerate such delays. Plus, it is important to note that the whole big-box merchant mindset concentrates on cutting costs and speeding delivery. A huge part of the problem here is that Costco, Home Depot and the rest couldn't care LESS about quality. If the merchant doesn't press for quality improvements, the manufacturer will not feel compelled to address it. John

The Optima is a great tub. John

I don't think the typical shopper looking for a pricepoint tub is buying with a 20 yr outlook. Let's face it, after 5-6 years, ALL of these tubs are worth $1k on craigslist, whether you're buying a $15k top-of-the-line, or a Costco special. So the amortization arguments are just a little off- residual value of the tub is in play here. At end of life, if the low $$ tub is in the landfill, you've not lost a whole lot of cash. I have relatives that are IRT's in the HVAC industry. Their view of value is all about serviceability and longevity. It makes sense- that's what they think about all day long. And we see a lot of that on this forum. But for the consumer, the value equation is different. I don't buy anything at Costco that I expect to last 10 yr, much less 20. And if the industry is really building premium tubs that last this long and remain in service- you're selling yourself short. There should be technology, features, efficiency, etc. that render a tub obsolete and ready for the landfill long before 20 years. Translation: you sell another unit. These premium versus value arguments are pointless. There is a market for both. The IRT's on the board can continue to digg the big box tubs at every opportunity- often rightly so. The real risk is when the big box folks figure out how to build and sell quality - and they're not going away. Imports will play here. Have a look at the domestic auto industry. Even the Koreans are turning out decent product now at every pricepoint. The challenge for the mfg's is to adapt in this transition, and figure out why consumers shop big box (hint: It's not all price). I disagree that amortization arguments are not meaningful. The majority of hot tub purchasers do not make a buying decision with the thought in the back of their mind that they will ultimately turn this over on Craigslist and fret about residual value. The average hot tub is not easily installed, de-installed or moved. The majority of folks run the tub until its not worth repairing anymore. My tub has now cost me $200 for each year of ownership, plus the repair and operating expenses. In today's dollars, my tub would be equivalent to what is being sold in the $8000 range, so a 20 year ownership equates to $400 per year ownership costs now. Compare that amount to the customer I had last week with a three year old Keys Backyard hot tub whose frame literally fell apart, resulting in enough settling to damage the vessel and crack a lot of plumbing. Trust me, he won't sell that on Craigslist. So, his three year old purchase just amortized out to just under $2000 per year plus prior repairs and operating costs. And let's not forget that he now has the hassle of having that one disposed of, purchasing a replacement and installing it. He will have to completely rewire from the house because of code changes since this installation occurred. No, there are distinct advantages to having a tub that lasts a long time. As regards the foreign hot tubs, the Chinese made stuff in particular (I've worked on some), some of which showed up on Ebay the past couple of years. Every one that I've seen does not comply with UL1563 and is not certified by either UL or ETL, which makes them illegal to install in any state that has incorporated the NEC into law by regulation (See Article 110.3 in its entirety). Many states do. The homeowner and installing electrician run a grave risk in such cases should there be a catastrophic event such as a fire or electrocution. I always have the homeowner sign a waiver prior to working on uncertified tubs whereby they acknowledge that I have informed them that they have an uncertified tub and that its continued use by the customer may be illegal. John