north_of_boston

Yep. My climate isn't as cold as Michigan but it does get cold here, and after a "no winter year" in 2008-09 -- when I had no working tub -- we replaced ours in late 2009. After a 55F New Year's Eve, we got slaughtered with snow. Our back deck leads out to a staircase down into a fenced-off area. On that side of the house, we have a 10-foot high fence. It's made of cedar, and it's not a picket fence, but a bit nicer. I have to stain it every 2 years or so. I had it put up around 1998 when we had "hot tub II". We are now on our third (since 1984). The fence is 10 feet high on one side, six feet all around, but the 10 foot side is for privacy from the neighbors on one side. Please read on. We have neighbors on two sides of us. We also have a very STRINGENT rule - no clothing, no bathing suits permitted in the hot tub at ANY time. And we mean it. On one side - the neighbors are cool with our mode of use. On the other, where the 10-foot fence is, we have never addressed it -- but on our side they have the bedrooms of their teenage sons. I don't think we're going to have any problems with them if they should happen to see a nude woman. Still - I have a rule -- "Gentlemen, please wrap something around your waist on the back deck -- ladies, please wrap up appropriately until you are down in the fenced-in area." Unfortunately, many people, especially the ladies, have a tendency to forget that rule upon leaving the tub. So far I've had no complaints. So that's how we handle it... And it doesn't look cheap -- I still have to landscape within the backyard fenced-in area, but I think it will be fine.

Most people tell me electronics and hot tubs don't mix well. What I did -- rigged up outdoor speakers on the fence posts next to the tub, ran wires into the house to my stereo. That's safer, better, and water doesn't get anywhere near the electronics. They do offer TVs and stereos built in. Some of the dealers I talked to during my search advised - DON'T. Most of the warranty work they encounter involves stereos, and when I'm in a hot tub with others, it's the wine, conversation, and comraderie that makes it, I don't want to watch TV. Your mileage may vary.

Wellspring, Electricity is the most user-friendly way to make heat if you are "on the grid", which most of us in North America are. Now -- there ARE "spas", or should I say, hot tubs made that are heated by wood. We owned one. I'll grant you this = wood, aesthetically, has some advantages over fiberglass spas, more of a "back to nature" thing, it's different and we enjoyed it. We had one that had a cast-aluminum stove that immerses in the water. It's top-loading, and there's a screen to protect bathers from the hot stove. We bought one in 1984, it saw frequent use the first three years and in 1999 we finally decided to toss it and replace it with a conventional electric spa. NOW - speaking from experience, and remember, I replaced it with an electric spa, and its replacement (2010) is also electric. Why did mrs. north and I go that route? We loved it at first, the company's service was good, wonderful people at that company. And I live next to a wooded area, plenty of dead wood, fallen trees, etc., wood is not the problem. Also here in Massachusetts, I'm on city water mains, water is cheap here, and not in short supply. BUT -- 1) It was too much work. We would fill it, then fire it up and it took three hours to heat it. 2) Since there was no motor, no pump, no filter, we would use it twice, dump the water and repeat the cycle. 3) Winter - in coastal New England, water freezes. This means, come November, you couldn't use it easily. We would drain it down to six inches of water and wait for spring. After four years or so - we just stopped using it. It was too much work for us. If I had the time to keep it going , or lived in a more temperate climate where we didn't have a winter AND had plenty of firewood, and water, then I'd stick with that route. But electricity - once a standard spa is installed, and set up, all you have to do is press a couple of buttons and you're good to go. 12 months a year, even in coastal New England. Now, in an area of the country where electricity is cheap, I'll trade off the $35 / month it costs me in electricity, and the $2 or so a month in chemicals, and one annual dump/re-fill of water, which I can do in the warmer nine months of the year. In an earlier thread, I mentioned that we absolutely - positively - categorically do not permit bathing suits in our spa. This keeps the visitor rate down, and the water pristine, and I don't have to run the filter cycles as frequently. We use the electric spas much more than the wood one. Several times a week, outdoors, and all through the year. Mimimal work. More time for soaking, less time working on getting ready for it. Electricity might not be the most efficient means in terms of BTUs, and so forth, but it is EASY. It's convenient. It's reliable. I can't comment on propane, it might be cheaper, but then again, you've got to have continual shipments of it. Spas can be costly. And they are a LUXURY item, no question about it. But most of us who own them like the convenience of electric spaa and do not mind paying the price for it. If you're willing to do some labor -- the wood-fired units may be for you. You will save money but you will spend time keeping it going.

I'll pile on in the defense of the Arctic Spa. We've had an Arctic Yukon for 14 months now. We also have the onzen system. Now - I was skeptical, because I read about the problems with earlier onzen generator systems, and the jets popping out. I saw a new one on the floor of the shop. The dealer convinced me that they were beyond those problems. Different jet fittings on the 2009-10-11 models. I've had it for 14 months and have had ZERO problems. Count 'em. ZERO. Zilch. Zud. Bupkis. Nada. I have had the chemistry go off-kilter a couple of times but we got around that quickly -- details = 1) PH running too high. So every couple of weeks I had to put in a capful of Ph reducer, and cut down the onzen. 2) I thought I had to replenish the salt -- and mistakenly, I did so. I was advised to reduce the water level a few inches and just re-add water (well, I just shoveled snow back in. Snow *is* water), because the salt content was too high. Did so, it's fine. But I don't consider those "problems" or "headaches", just normal operation. It's all good.

Are you in southeastern NH? I can recommend a GREAT pool/spa electrician - he did my original installation in 1999 and after I moved the tub did so again.

It seems that perhaps they have had that many problems. As for fixes, that remains to be seen. Mine was manufactured in November 2010 and installed January 2011. I do not know the "generation number" but I've had no problems with mine. It generates chlorine as long as the salt levels (which I had to reduce after adding too much) and the Ph levels are where they're supposed to be. I did have to use Ph reducer a few times in the last year, and when the salt content was too high I did have to put in oxidizing shock (like - a capful) a couple times, but that's under control now. Quite often, it's a misunderstanding of chemistry that causes water problems, and not the hardware itself.

It seems that perhaps they have had that many problems. As for fixes, that remains to be seen. Mine was manufactured in November 2010 and installed January 2011. I do not know the "generation number" but I've had no problems with mine. It generates chlorine as long as the salt levels (which I had to reduce after adding too much) and the Ph levels are where they're supposed to be. I did have to use Ph reducer a few times in the last year, and when the salt content was too high I did have to put in oxidizing shock (like - a capful) a couple times, but that's under control now. Quite often, it's a misunderstanding of chemistry that causes water problems, and not the hardware itself.

I have had no problems. If the PH level is proper, and there's sufficient salt in the water, and adequate alkalinity is there, no sweat. I did try adding more salt -- and was advised that could actually stop the Onzen from producing free chlorine if the salt level is too high! The dealer advised - I shouldn't have added a lot -- so, drain it a foot or so, and add new water in. It's been too cold - but -- since I lose some to evaporation, I have been shoveling snow into it to replace it, and the free chlorine is coming back up, but the first 40F day we get here I'll be doing just that. In the meantime, I add around 2-3 oz. of oxidizing shock and running two "BOO" (boost) cycles. It's fine. The Onzen is working as it should. You still have to test the water every couple of days. My Arctic takes a grand total of five-ten minutes a week to manage.

And it's gonna be awhile before a thaw... sub-zero F temps predicted -- it will be interesting to see if my Arctic holds the heat. It should. Last year we really didn't have much of a winter here in eastern Mass. -- no real deep freeze periods, no snow (well, 14 inches, that's nothing). I think we've had 50 inches thus far -- including 22 last week in one hit, 15 this week in two hits. And a three-day arctic blast ahead. And a potential "major storm" after the deep freeze ends. Next July I'll look out back and think about when the area was in the anvil of winter.

Good for you! You'll enjoy it, and, I might add -- you did your homework, which is essential in this process. Congratulations and may you and yours have many happy soaking, relaxing hours!

Good for you! You'll enjoy it, and, I might add -- you did your homework, which is essential in this process. Congratulations and may you and yours have many happy soaking, relaxing hours!

During my initial hot tub search, some dealers -- including a tent show dealer -- said "icksnay" to adding a sound system. Reason = it generates too much warranty service. Water and electronics don't mix well. By the time I got down to exploring Jacuzzi and Arctic, I didn't even get into that in my final search -- unless I bought one off the floor that had it, we weren't going to buy one with it. I have yet to hook them up (wire them) but I have two Cambridge Soundworks outdoor speakers mounted on my fence poles. I will be doing either one of two things -- a) running them into a stereo unit inside the house, I have two or three old stereo units that work fine and I haven't used them in years -- OR --- Putting a car radio / CD player in a waterproof container outside, along with a 13.8v DC wiring to a power supply inside the house. Haven't yet decided but I think the first option will be what we do. I will likely be getting a "whole house anywhere" system so I can transmit internet-only services down to the stereo system, such as BBC Radio 2 and CBC Radio Two -- out there, as well as various computer-carried audio channels.

I had a similar decision a bit over a year ago and went with an Arctic Spa Yukon (over a Jacuzzi brand) -- but I'll tell ya, Debbie, the quality of the two products were so good, that decision wasn't easy. Also making the decision difficult were two very good dealers that I had a lot of confidence in. We went with the Arctic - it was more money - but also we took the "Onzen" system, advanced technology. And it was the latest generation, and Arctic got over a lot of the problems that had been documented (jets popping out, problems w/Onzen, etc., all over with now.). We had ours special-ordered from Thorsby. We have had it for a year - we love it. After all the snow we had here in Eastern Mass. today -- I shoveled and shoveled and shoveled and also ran my snowblower -- yeah it's 30F (-1C) but a 20 minute soak in the hot tub -- phenomenal. Good luck - I can't tell you which way to go, but you probably won't go wrong EITHER way.

Why not take advantage of the only good thing about any spa offered at Costco?? I'm not going to get into a conversation involving one brand or dealer vs. another ... BUT ... you are right, there are some people who are "hot tub" people and others who are not. My wife and I have had a hot tub of one type or another for 27 years. We would not be without one. But, it can become a novelty that wears off quickly. We always use ours. Perhaps once or twice a week ... we entertain others (as we did on NYE) ... and yeah, we have to clean it and maintain it. Not too much of a hassle on that, we have an Arctic Yukon with the Onzen feature. So, there are different strokes for different folks... enjoy what you enjoy.

Arctic Spa Yukon here. I have to add around 1 inch of water every two months.

OK, I have to say you're taking this conversation into a weird direction. But, anyway, yeah a few pubic hairs (and chest hairs, and head hairs, and underarm hairs, and leg hairs, and arm hairs too) may have hit the filter. No, I have never done a study or read one based on what type of hair is found in the filters. Needless to say, if I do see them, I do not stop to analyze them, nor is it a major issue. Perhaps out there on the web, there is some type of study (beware of any performed and published by an online periodical called "The Onion") but frankly, it isn't worth my time checking it out. Such effort, if undertaken, would still make it impossible to determine the regional origin of any body hair found in the filter. As far as oils, etc. considering a bathing suit only covers a limited area of one's body (or two, for our distaff friends) -- even if the suit were to contain the body oils within it, etc., the detergents, dyes, threads, etc. from the bathing suits themselves would be worse. Yes, I have done studies on this! Glad you ask! In my last spa, my daughter had a hot tub party with her friends. They all wore bathing suits. There were around eight people that used the tub. After they were done, the water was filthy, smelly, cloudy, and the tub had to be drained and refilled. Fortunately, it was November and the temperatures had not dropped to the freezing mark so we could do that. I also found a bottlecap in the bottom of the tub, I think it said "MGD" or "Labatt Blue" on it. However, I do not think that the foreign object caused the fouling of the water, at least in its primary form. At that point, mrs north and I passed a rule = NO BATHING SUITS IN THE SPA. Ever. Some time later, we had a party at our house. Around ten people used the tub. After the party was over, I noted one thing - the water was still clear. It did not need changing. It did not smell funny. As far as hairs in the filter, I didn't notice any. So - my empirical evidence has shown that by not wearing suits in the tub, the water is cleaner. It is a far more aestheically pleasing experience. As far as pubic hair goes -- I don't recall any in the filter, and, frankly, I didn't bother to estimate everyone's degree of hirsuitism as they entered the tub. FYI, there is something called a hirsuitism score, you can look it up! Nor did I examine to see where the hair was on each individual's body, to what degree, etc. nor did I care at the time. Besides, if I started taking notes of such items, my guests might be offended, or look at me with a jaundiced eye. "Wait a minute, Betty, before you get into the tub, I have to take some observations. I'm doing pubic hair checks, it's part of a study. I'll only be a minute. Let me get my clipboard, stand still -- uh... OK, you're shaved. Let me put that on the data sheet." It doesn't go over well at most parties. Now, that's an unscientific assumption, but, I think we can assume that it would not be a popular thing in such situations. If you disagree with that premise, we will have to agree to disagree. It can be said that they were not invited over to be objects of a scientific study, but rather for a recreational and social evening. Mrs North did ask an important question of the group = "Hey, does anyone want any more wine or beer? Whattya drinkin', red, white, ale, beer, light beer?" I also issued a medical advisory = "It's 40F, or 4C if you do Celsius." That was probably necessary - scientists love Celsius, and I can do conversions in my head, having lived in Canada. I tend to do that when I, too, intake alcohol, and even go "back and forth" between English and francais. "When you get out, you have around 30 seconds to get your robe on, or you will really feel the cold. And, ladies, cover up above the waist on the back deck, a neighbor can see that and we didn't invite him over." I now realize the error of my ways -- a lost opportunity for scientific advancement and technological research. We might suggest that you conduct your own studies -- clothed vs. bathing suits, how much pubic hair and other body hairs your guests have, etc., a full analysis as to the type of hairs hit your filters, and please, report your findings back to us. Don't get your notebook wet, and use BIC stick pens, they work on damp paper, very well. I'm almost certain that everyone in here would be fascinated with the results of such research. They may be prompted to undertake a similar, serious academic study. The results of such activity could be deemed useful.

OK, I think you're making the assumption that a bathing suit somehow affords some type of cleanliness protection for you and the tub. IT DOES NOT. The difference is, with a swimsuit, your body is immersed in that water, with some type of cloth wrapping. Without the swimsuit, the only difference is the cloth wrapping (and its detergents and threads and dyes) aren't in the tub with you. The only purpose a bathing suit serves is to provide modesty. It does not make a swimming or hot tub experience healthier or safer. In fact, the more that you and your guests are without suits -- THE LESS YOU'LL HAVE TO CLEAN FILTERS, and you'll definitely have cleaner water, and you'll definitely spend less on chemicals.

Again, the warm water is the right path on this. In fact, if in doubt, use it anyway, because ice on the inside of those locks might snap them. Another hint = ALWAYS clear the top of the tub off of snow and ice BEFORE you lift the cover -- you could damage the cover lifter. Too much weight on there. Finally - if you have to use a garden hose to top off the tub, you can thaw it out by placing it in the hot water (assuming the hose is clean) BUT .. BUT ... stay out of the way of it when you turn it on , ice pellets can injure....

Swimsuit dyes and detergents also foul up the water. If you are in a position to change the water, then bathing suits might be permissible. But I might not be able to change the water until March.... so ...

Just wondering.

We do not have a fancy lighting package -- but the lights gradually change color every 30 seconds or so. We have the lights on at night so we can see , getting in and out of the tub.

I'm an Arctic owner, and quite happy with it, and yes, it cost me extra bucks -- but a few Gs over a 10-12-15 year investment is not all that much money. There are other 'winter spas' as well, I suggest you do your homework on them -- there are other brands besides Arctic. The one thing to remember - a "6 person spa" -- as others have stated, it may be a bit too "cozy" if you have six in there. BUT -- how often will you have SIX adults in there? I have a six-seater, and it seats four comfortably. While the idea of parties, etc., comes up, it's going to be a rare occasion where you have six in there, and if so, people will just have to wait their turn.

This is my spa: http://www.dreammakerspas.com/fantasy.html Yes, it actually has a plug and it is 110 volt/15 watt service. I'm not guessing on the power required but don't know the pros or cons of temporarily using a heavy duty outdoor extension cord (the cord on the spa is about 8 feet too short to reach the outlet on our house). I think you mean 15 AMPERE service. Again, don't use the extension. Do it right. Better to wait.

Hell, no. In almost all cases, you need to plug into a special GFCI outlet. This is similar to what you have in the bathroom, for the electric shaver, or hairdryer, but it's much larger for a hot tub. Usually a special GFCI outlet AND circuit breaker at the panel.

"Do not remove this tag under penalty of law." Well, it's been changed to 'this tag not to be removed except by the consumer.' Having grown up in a textile town, I was assured it was OK to rip the tag off, once you owned the item.