bart6453
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Posts posted by bart6453
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Forgot to add... I don't have a test kit to do everything you listed.
I was just looking at the Taylor Complete DPD Test Kit K-2006 vs Taylor Complete DPD Test Kit K-2006-C ($58 vs $102) since it was recommended.
This is all new to me so I have some figuring out to do. Wife wants it to be a Xmas gift, but I don't want to wait a month to balance my water properly.
first things first......peroxide is crap. look up my posts on the pain and anguish I had dealing with my friends pool who wouldnt listen to me to begin with and insisted that peroxide was the way to go.
If your wife does not like bleach, just go to the pool store and get some di-chlor and then when you get your CYA up to 20-30ppm, switch to unstabilized chlorine from the pool store. I don't use it, so I dont know much about it....but chem geek can kick in here to let you know more about it. I have seen it at my pool store, and the pool calculator gives you an option for using it in the calculation....you can also use the pool calculator on your iphone/ipod (super handy for spa side adjustments) Incidentally, my pool store sells clorox too...because that is what they use when for the pool service side of their business.
Anyways....if your wife still insists on using peroxide, search MRSA(methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus) on here....and if after reading about the horror stories does not change your mind....well then....you are making your own bed to lie in.
I know I am being a bit harsh...but I had to take care of a huge pool that was out of control and frankly dangerous because of peroxide.
good luck, Remember...if you don't like the advice that is given....WHY DID YOU ASK?
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I've been using Clorox 6% now for over a month and all was well. I bought a new bottle the other day and just use it tonight. I added a good 250ml in after using the tub and it foamed up like crazy!
I grabbed the bottle and notice it is Clorox Ultra. I then read the small print. It contains the usual Sodium Hypochlorite but ALSO Sodium Hydroxide.
I'll look into what that is now but has anybody had this happen and what do I need to do next? I hope this didn't just ruin the water and I have to dump it.
I am guessing it is just a very strong dose and will take time to dissipate.. well, I am hoping that is all.
Greg
Update, to my own posting. I just ran the jets on high for a bit and scooped out allot of the foam. Then I cleaned the filter and put it back. Next I added 3 tbsp of MPS and ran the jets some more. It looks like the foaming is going down.
I took readings and all is fine. pH=7.5, TA=80, CL=2.
I've given the Ultra Clorox jug to the wife for the laundry room and will go out to look for the regular stuff, although I'll likely give it a day or two of just MPS.. there is enough "bleach: in there to last.
Any suggestions are welcome. Although, I may be alone in this boat ;-)
Greg
well...I would try foam treatment. I should cure the suds a bit. It is most likely just an anti-sudsing agent.
In my past life I used to sell appliances. about once a week a woman would come in the store in tears telling us how she put DAWN dishwashing soap in her dishwasher...note the dishwashing liquid...not AUTOMATIC dishwashing liquid.
We would squirt about 3 ounces of spa no foam into a ziplock and tell her to flll the baggie with water and pour it in the bottom of her dishwasher.
It would kill the suds and get her moving on in life.
anyways....it works on killing soap suds.
you could do that backwards and use glisten (its a dishwasher cleaning/defoaming agent) but I dont think that would be good to soak in!
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You have to help me out a bit. How is this method hazardous to the tub and our health? Obviously the fumes are bad. Pour it in and get the heck away. We poured in bleach when we emptied the tub last time. Nitro's decontamination says to pour in bleach. What am I missing?
Over 200ppm free chlorine doesn't mean much to me. I guess that's really high. How high does it need to be to kill this white fungus/algae. I'm only 2 weeks into a fresh fill and I don't want to dump it and start over if I don't have to.
I know that peroxide will neutralize chlorine. Is that why this site is advising to add so much bleach? My peroxide levels are at about 200ppm right now.
All I'm trying to do it figure out how much bleach do I need to add to kill this stuff and not dump my water. Is that even possible?
The plan right now is to pour in X amount of bleach (right now a gallon), run the jets on high with the air open for the full 20 min cycle, then turn the air off and let it sit for 48 hours.
I'll see what crud floats up (or down), if any, and clean it up.
I'll just keep checking the chlorine levels until they are lower (2 days... 10 days... a month... whatever it takes) and then put in peroxide until my levels are over 100ppm again.
You really need to pick a program and stick with it.
Why go through all the work of experimenting with this and that...when all you have to do is follow Nitro's instructions and you are done.
Go get a test kit, 2 gallons of bleach, and a pound of Di-chlor.
Add the bleach up to 50ppm, let sit for 30 minutes..check to make sure you actually maintained some higher level of FC. Then drain and add dichlor up to a total of 22-33ppm (depending on your desired CYA level 20 or 30).
After a week of adding dichlor, switch to bleach and you are golden..
Really in a nutshell...that's about all you need to do to switch.
If you are worried about the water usage...filling a spa is nearly nothing for actual water. In our town water is $3.13 per 100 cubic feet plus $3.19 per 100 cubic feet for disposal....100 cubic feet equals 750 gallons....so a fill on my tub costs about two dollars.
Make life easy..take the bull by the horns....and just switch.
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A concrete pad is always going to be your best option. Especially in climates where you have a freeze/thaw cycle.
This will also protect you against any warranty claims that my have a "spa pad clause" meaning if the pad was not done properly it will void warranty.
Patio stones will work, but they are much more work, moving each stone, leveling etc
In my opinion it is much easier to build a form that is level, pour your concrete and bam you are set.....
If it is getting too cold to pour your concrete, I personally would dig, build my forms, put in a gravel bed that is level for drainage, and for now set the spa on the gravel.....when spring comes around and you are doing your spring drain.....you can then pour your pad and put it back in place.....
Concrete is always the best option in my opinion......just make sure if you hire someone you tell them to make it level.....most concrete guys are use to putting a slight pitch in the concrete to avoid puddling as well as keeping any rain or water build up from going towards the house
I too agree on the concrete.
One thing about the leveling though....it is against code in most places to have a perfectly level pad of concrete connected to your house. You MUST have it sloped for run off.
In the end, you want a little pitch so that if you are spilling water or get super heavy rain it wont go in the basement.
I poured my pad to have 1/2" drop in 8 feet....which was a little under the pitch requirement for the building codes...but I explained to the inspector that it was for a spa and he let me by with it.
Anyways....a little pitch is a good thing.
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God I hate that bug!
Bart,
I just did Nitro's Decontamination Procedure on my signature ... the bug is gone!! That Nitro guy really knows his stuff!!!
That's funny...I wouldn't take that bug off for anything....by far the best signature I have ever seen!
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I agree with Bart; it's all sunk cost. Your problems will continue until you do something different ... like switch to an EPA approved sanitation method. I recommend you take the advice previously suggested by several in this thread: Use Nitro's Decontamination Procedure and Approach To Water Maintenance. Believe me, I know exactly how you (and your wife) are feeling. I went though the same ordeal with BaquaSpa. I was really close to calling my dealer to have them take the hot tub back. But now, I coudn't be happier.
God I hate that bug!
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Well it's def not old dead stuff floating around... 2 weeks into a fresh fill and we have white fluffy things floating in the water again. Not much, but when we put the jets on high with the air for 3-4 min and then turn it off... we see 4-5 of them. I use a little strainer to get them, but there are fresh ones daily.
Not a happy camper. My wife is just as pissed off. We're embarressed to invite anyone over. Debating about draining it and shutting it off for the winter. Maybe a few months of negative degree weather will kill everything in the tub and we'll start fresh in the spring.
I want to switch to something else, but I still have 12 L of Peroxysan and a 5 gallon pail of 35% peroxide. I don't want to just throw it out.
Is there anything I can do to shock the water to kill the fluffy stuff without empying the tub? I read a site that someone just poured a crap load of bleach into the tub, killed everything and then went back to using peroxide once the bleach dissapated Is this an option? How much peroxide would I need to kill this stuff? I poured 6L into the tub when we started fresh.
A few sites say that the white fluffy stuff is harmless and just a pain in the butt. I still don't feel like trying to say that to people when we have them over. "ignore the snot looking stuff... it's harmless..."
Here is some advice for you...
I can understand not wanting to waste the chemicals that you already have...but...you already spent the money. That cash is gone, you will never get it back whether you use the chemicals or not.
You can successfully sanitize you hot tub for about a month on one gallon of clorox bleach, which costs about $3.50 You will also need a small supply of Di-chlor to get your CYA up to 20-30ppm as prescribed by Nitro.
So you are looking at realistically spending about $20.00 to change to chlorine. I know you really should drain and refill and use chlorine...but I know from experience that you can switch from peroxide to chlorine on the fly. My friend had a huge pool that was peroxide sanitized and got out of control. We couldnt drain it due to the volume, so we switched to chlorine. It did use more bleach than if we had started fresh, but it still worked.
Really what it comes down to is being stubborn. Don't be stubborn, don't cut your nose off to spite your face.
Just switch, and be done...you will reduce your stress level by 1000% in about a half an hour.
good luck.
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Tom, I recommend that you try Nitro's guide to water maintenance. On fill up, leave out the salt and leave the salt cell off.
Also, what test kit do you have?
It is critical that you get a good test kit, such as the Taylor K-2006.
Hi Quant,
We bit the bullet and emptied and refilled the tub. We really did wrestle with leaving the generator off and just working with tablets. In the end though, we figured we would give the generator one more go. This will be our first fill with the Taylor K-2006 kit and hopefully we can stay on top of the chemistry. I am really hoping that the rash was the result of pH of 8.2 (that is what it was reading when we moved away from the test strips). With the Taylor kit, we will keep it in the 7.4 - 7.6 range.
The rash is raised, red, and itchy. It is on my back and both sides of my abdomen. There are some spots on my legs and arms but they are not as concentrated as my back and abdomen. Oh yeah, the itchiest areas are very dry. I have had it for weeks now. My doc is trying to get me into a dermatologist but no luck so far. The itch seems to be diminishing but slowly. I am a scrather so it is not a pretty sight.
Cheerio...Tom
Tom...you need to slow things down a bit.
You are jumping in a tub way too soon after adding god knows what and basically hoping for the best.
Re-fill your tub, listen to Nitro's advice on water maintenance, get you water BALANCED, Keep it that way for a few days....and really understand what is going on with your water.
Then, and only then, get in your tub.
If the thought of water balance issues is swimming around in your head...don't jump in. It is just going to exacerbate your water and skin problems.
You have taken the first great steps firstly by reading on this board to educate yourself about your water, and secondly by getting yourself a proper test kit.
Good luck, you will get this all figured out.
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If you're on town supplied water then you've almost certainly been "exposed" to chlorinated water for years by now - including drinking the stuff. So it's probably too late to worry about it.
+1
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found lots of infomation. Some of it is scary. Many claims that bromine and chlorine lead to cancer, lung conditions, especially that they are very bad for the skin and promote aging.
Would I be correct that where ever you found this information, someone was SELLING something so that this wouldn't be the case?
I think this is a very valid question. In fact, I there was another post a week or two ago about why showering after the tub.
We're immersing ourselves in a liquid with a mixture of potentially harmful chemicals and gases. Is there potention for long term damange like skin or lung cancer?
I've had my tub for a about 6 months now (bromine, ozonator, floater), and although I enjoy it immensely, the thought nags.
I have no scientific background so I will wait for someone with more objective scientific knowledge to weigh in. Chem Geek? Any thought on halogens, ozone, silver, and the other chemicals/elements in the quantities we'd be encountering in the tub?
Seriously?
People have been swimming in chlorine pools for a very long time.
We spend much less time in our tubs than even highschool athletic swimmers do.
If there were problems with being in chlorine, there would be a clear correlation between highschool, college, and olympic swimming athletes and any condition that chlorine exposure may cause.
I for one am not a pansy, I will die some day, it may be today on my way home from work, it may be 40 years from now. But I am really not going to worry how it is going to happen, and continue to enjoy the little luxuries in life.
Nothing ventured.....Nothing gained.
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I'm not questioning your sanitization method but why do all the dealers push the tablets?
I'm scared to use the bleach method.
Ignorance. This is supported by the fact that you're on your 3rd fill after only 4 months using your dealer's methods. Personally, I'd stop listening to your dealer and start listening to Nitro and chem geek and many others on this forum who have benefited from their expertise. Both know more about spa water chemistry than any dealer I've ever met. Their only motivation is to help you and I to have a trouble-free and safe spa experience. I switched to Nitro's dichlor-then-bleach method 4 months ago and am still on the original fill. I was a little hesitant myself, but now regard my decision to use the dichlor-then-bleach method as brilliant. Go for it, you will be very pleased with how well it works.
+1
just dumped my water after 6 months on the nitro/chem geek program......it still seemed fine but winter is approaching in Minnesota so I thought 6 months was long enough. If I didnt have to worry about climate I would have kept going until my water was hard to balance or Chlorine demand was out of control.
It works...it's simple...did I mention that it works?
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So I did a refill today and was checking the water before it went into my tub.
Here are the readings..
PH=8.2
TA=50
FC=trace
CH=150ppm
So with that said, how can the PH be stable at 8.2 with the TA so low? In my tub when I put the water in and add borates, it reaches a PH of 7.5 in a matter of hours with nothing else added. Why does it maintain such a high PH in the pipes and water supply but when I put it the tub it drops.
Is it because the pipes are a sealed, pressurized system and it does not allow outgassing???
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The math is correct.....and the load is extremely static....so no issues. Now if you have a pocket of soft earth under the concrete...different story.
As long as you had the underlayment prepped right you are good to go!
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We bought a South Seas Spa 744L in October. When getting it delivered, they went over maintanece with my husband--simply saying, rinse filter weekly, change Nature 2 every 4 months, add chlorine granules after every use(about a capful)--when we run out of this-start using renew(again, capful per person/use), and put enzyme in it weekly. I've been doing all that, but the 2 days(not consequtive) we didn't use the spa-no chemicals were added--the first time, water got cloudy-the 2nd time(2 days ago), kinda cloudy w/an odor. I used the chlorine granules(bought more) and shocked it, now it's slightly cloudy-odor's gone. I am thinking all is not right only doing these things. I've read nitro's guide--but I am a dummy and like to be told specific amounts. I was debating about doing the 5 oz chlorox 6% per person/hour and then doing the dichlor and renew treatment weekly. Right now, I only have test strips. With the nature 2, if we use renew-which is non-chlorine, the strip won't read any chlorine, right? Any help or advice is welcome...just do it in layman's terms so I can understand. Thanks in advance.
I would forget everything they spa store told you.
Read Nitro's sanitation program....Print it out...Keep it for reference.
Bookmark http://www.thepoolcalculator.com/ on your computer....or get the ipod application (this rocks because I can take my water calculator out to the tub...very handy).
Use Nitro's procedure, when at a loss..ask for help or search for it on here.
Your water will be clean, nice, smell good, easy to maintain, and most importantly....SAFE.
Search MRSA on here if you want a good reason to use Nitro's advice and good sanitation methods.
Ok....I will get off the soapbox now
Good luck.....It's really easy!
Oh...and I leave the Nature 2 in my tub just for good backup in case I forget to add the sanitizer. ( has not happened yet..but I know some day it will)
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I had a concrete slab poured Monday and currently have an empty Sundance Cameo screaming at me to be filled after electrical inspection on Friday morning. My concrete guy seems to think we are okay, but wanted to get your opinions (sure they will vary). We used a lot of fiber mesh. I sure would love to use this on Saturday. Opinions?
I'd trust the concrete guy. He's who will get the call if there is a crack. Cure time / strength depends on so many factors, mix, thickness, temp, wet vs dry cure, etc. Size of pad matters too.. If it's only the size of the tub and it gets a hairline crack underneath, I'm not sure that you'd know (or care).
It's 12 x 12 and I have the 7'5" Cameo in one of the corners to allow more walking space.
Concrete takes 28 days to cure fully (to industry standards at least, it can really take years or decades to cure, but a reasonable time needs to be put on the cure. Typically the concrete is guaranteed to hold the advertised PSI at 28 days) ....and at that can handle about 3000-4500 pounds per square inch without damage. The curing slows throughout the process, so it gets harder faster at first. Your tub will come no where near that PSI. I had a patio and driveway poured this year with 5000PSI concrete...I parked the Escalade and DTS(both plenty heavy) on it in 5 days...the tub was on it and filled in 4 days....no problems.
As long as it was fairly warm out, and you kept it nice and damp during the cure...I wouldnt worry one bit about it.
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I am also facing the same weather issue.
I have been holding off on draining the tub and refilling in the hopes I can make it strongly through winter on this fill.
Things will be freezing here in Minnesota pretty soon....so my time is running out. I was thinking over the thanksgiving holiday I may be able to get it all drained and refilled....gonna be a cold afternoon!
Anyways...I am just going to keep on keeping on and not change anything with my water regime.
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Nope and I searched everywhere the last couple weeks. Cheapest I found was here. I ended up ordering from the states even though thats technically not supposed to be allowed.
What a complete ripoff!!! I am mad.
I was in Boston a few weeks ago and bought a kit that is almost the same (Leslie's Pool Supplies) and made by Taylor for $42 USD. I brought it back in my checked baggage on the plane no problem.
Drive across the border or get a PO box and order it. Then get it shipped.
Odd how it costs so much here in Canada. Every trip I make to the USA I will be sure to get some R-refills.
Greg
Not to Hijack....but how did that trip go Greg? Any issues coming across? I have the scene from the movie Blow in my head where he was going through security with the suitcase....
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NOt sure if this plays a part, but I've also read information that states the ph balance of skin is in the low fives and the ph balance of the eyes is near 7.6, which make sit the ideal setting for your pool/spa's ph. In other words, if your theory was right that balanced water wouldn't make your skin prune, it would surely irritate the eyes.
No theory...just curious.
I always assumed it was simply my skin becoming waterlogged..but I have read in a couple of different places that PH has an effect....I really was not buying it.
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So...Is it true that if my skin is pruned up after being in the tub my PH is off????
Just curious.
I noticed that if I have been working in the garage with sandpaper and solvents in the past few days I get pruned up.....but sometimes I just get pruned up anyways....and my wife rarely if ever gets pruned up.
Anyways..just kind of thinking out loud here.
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Thanks Chem Geek and Mike. Mike, are you using a "system" now for Chlorine usage (not sure if this is the right term....like Nature 2, etc?).
I'm assuming I have to buy a test kit to use Nitro's Decom process?
"5.Add 50 ppm FC using Regular Clorox 6% Unscented Bleach. That's approx. 1/4 gal (32 oz) per 350 gal tub.? - Is this just using bleach to get FC? I have a 500 gallon tub so I'll figure out how much to use.
So using the ProTeam stuff isn't going to give me any advantage?
I'm thinking of switching to Brilliance for Spas, which I think is still made by Baqua, but it's their Bromine line. Any opinions on that, or just go the chlorine route and be done with it?
the system is Nitro's detailed instructions. It is linked at the bottom of all his posts.
I have been using the Nitro method for nearly a year now. I have never had a tub before, but was very intimidated by the chemical process. I am also very fastidious about being clean. I took the time to learn Nitro's method, which incidentally is just reading from the bottom of Nitro's profile, and have been very surprised at how much I do not need to do to keep my water properly balanced.
Go for Nitro's method and don't look back!
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In the process of getting a tub and one of my choices is a HS Prodigy which can hook up to 110 or 220. If the rep is telling me correctly the only issue is the jets and heater can not work together! The only issue would be staying in the tub for longer than 1/2 - 1 hour WITH the jets on! Then it would start to cook a degree or 2! I would be fine to just turn off the jets for minute!
Has anyone who has a 110 / 220 tub - every started with 110 then went to 220???
If I do get this tub - I would rather hook it up ONCE!
Thks
Where are you located? Cost to operate is less on 220v
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I am located in Michigan!
Seems like the Hot Spring energy guaranty states that 110 is cheaper????????
Go for the 220V.....quicker recovery.....more versatile(heater & pumps).....convenient for an upgrade if you need to change tubs.
If you already have an electrician there...the labor is the most expensive, you might just as well have him run the 220V
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Just got my tub a couple weeks ago and was in the same spot. i went back and forth for weeks between bromine and chlorine. I was really swayed by bromine, but in the end went with chlorine for a number of reasons.
One was odor. Bromine is not worse or better. But it is stronger and harder to remove form skin and materials.
Second was cost. If you use Nitro's dichlor/bleach plan, chlorine will be significantly more affordable. I should add, I have not yet adopted his system as I d not have a Taylor test kit yet. But will use it upon my next fill. For now, I'm doing a straight chlorine plan.
THird, despite the claims that bromine is easier, I found numerous posts about people who could never get their water levels dialed in and easy to maintain. In fact, it seems most people who use bromine eventually switch to chlorine. I'm sure many people love bromine, but it seems more people love chlorine.
Also, I must add that chlorine up keep is a lot easier than it sounds. Reading about it scared me. Doing it is a breeze.
+1
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So now I have to through the whole process again, understandably my confidence has been shattered.
Have any of you ever seen tubs catch alight before?
Never seen that.....but anything is possible.
I gathered from your pictures that it was from the orient based on the info tag in the pictures.
A malfunction of this type is heinous, the possibilities of disaster are endless....in the tub and electrocuted, in the house and burnt, good god...the list could go on.
I would be very suspicious of any tub from China.
Well...good luck, hope it all works out for you.
Peroxysan - White Floaters After Refill
in Hot Tub Water Chemistry
Posted
+1....just didnt want to say it