Matt87109

How long will costco take a return? glad you like your spa. Well, here's the thing about Costco. There's NO TIME LIMIT. Part of the deal with vendors that want to sell through Costco is that they have to agree to honor Costco's full-satisfaction, unlimited warranty, which means they have to eat the returns. The exceptions are computers, TVs and other electronics items, but it's all posted in the store. This is the silver bullet that makes Costco a viable player. There is no risk. If your shell blisters and cracks in year 6, after the Calspa waranty is over... Costco will take it back. Of course you have to decide if you would feel good about that... it all depends on the circumstance, I suppose.... but it's all up to you to decide if you got your value or if you want to do a return. By the way, check Costco.com. The 30 jet Calspa is still $3000 and the 45 jet version is now $3500, delivery included. Yikes, that's getting pretty cheap. Two pumps... I would go for the 45 jet, no doubt in my mind. -hot_water I'm not the type that expects vendors to provide me with free products. All I would use the costco guarantee for is avoiding an albatross. Short of a early defect that severely damages the longevity of the tub I would keep it for the long haul. Just because I don't want to pay a lot for a tub does not mean I'm unfair about things. I'm leaning to the 30 jet tub as it appears to have a nicer array of jets. The 45jet version has a bunch of tiny jets and granted a second pump. From all my wet testing I learned that more pressure and more jets is not necessarily better at all. It also appears that they can be individual shut off which will work with the single motor better as I can power up one seat at a time if I like (will mostly be for just me). Also it lacks the complexity of a diverter valve (which from my estimate looks like a weak spot on many tubs) unlike the calspa familyII version. Simple is good if I'm going to have to tinker with it from time to time. I really just want the ford truck version of a hot tub and I live in a pretty temperate climate.

How long will costco take a return? glad you like your spa.

Thanks for your post. I did go to the HS dealer and liked the Jet Setter. After the dealer told me the price was higher in January than in December and said "sorry prices are going up" I left him my name and phone number and he never called. He offered me 200 dollars less on a 2007 than what he was asking for a 2008 in late 2008.... and the 2009 was nearly 7k. At that point I reevaluated how much money I had talked myself into spending on this purchase and decided I was not going to pay "the going rate" from dealers. Having owned a costco tub before I'm all too aware of the less than perfect experience a certain percentage of people have had. Having already dealt with costco on a previous hot tub return I'm pretty much more than willing to experience it again if this tub is a total dud because costco was PERFECT about it last time. I agree with all you dealers when you mention the additional support and service, but every person has a limit on how much they want to spend for something and the associated head aches. I'm willing to deal with a certain amount of head aches before I up and return the tub to costco on the "reasonable" chance the tub will suffice. I'm also aware of the wet testing results of a number of tubs so basically I'm at the point that I'm willing to make compromises to try using a hot tub on a regular basis. I just flat out can not spend 5-7k on a hot tub. If I do buy this tub I'll document the whole experience honestly for everybody to read and poke fun.

Thanks for your posts so far. The costco tub lacks the diverter valve and I'm sure other things as well. I indeed was going to go and price the calspa version thanks for the input. I see the no labor part of the warranty a bummer as well. What I'm going to do is find out the time frame at which I can return the tub. If it's 1 year or something to that effect I'll probably buy it (after some more research) and then if at any point "I'm not satisfied with my purchase" I'll send it back. When I sent the last one back they were willing to do anything to not have to take a return. At the time costco told me "you can allow the manufacturer to attempt to repair it but be informed that it's your right to return the product" I realize this is not a "great tub". If the insulation is decent and I can turn a few screws to keep it going for five years I'll be happy.

I had to return a costco tub three years ago (supposedly made by sundance/jacuzzi) due to a leak, yet that experience is not deterring me now for some reason. I went to all the dealers in town and if you recall I said I just was not going to pay the overhead (lets not get into that argument . Please tell me again why I will regret buying this tub. It's looking real tempting. I'm going to contact costco and find out the exact return policy in case the industry insiders prevail I'm also finding out the extent of its insulation. I've already decided I just can't fork over 6k for a tub and I'd really like to have some hot bubbly 3-5 nights a week. http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?...〈=en-US http://calspas.com/hot_tubs/detail_spas~spaID~285.htm

No big deal.... thought I may have offended you. I think we have all seen antiques road show a time or two!.. must be fun touching a part of history.

I like you guys/galls on here, I was not trying to say that those of you that are dealers are bad people or don't work hard. Sorry if it came across that way. I was merely saying I don't think hot tubs are worth what people are willing to pay for them...... just my opinion. I'm clearly wrong because worth is defined by what somebody is willing to pay, not what I think. I'm just not going to buy a 2008 for more money in 2009. If expecting 15% off last years model is too much then I'll admit to being unreasonable. Luckily I won't die if I don't get a hot tub. It's neat that people are passionate about tubs, enjoy them, and want to sell them. In my case the HS dealer wants his tub more than I do, which is certainly his right because he is the current owner. At no point did I make any complaint about "small business owners". My opinion of buying a hot tub from a dealer has little to do with my opinion of other small businesses and the value they add to their products and services. I'm just one A$$ hole in the bunch, luckily there are plenty of people that are willing to pay lots of money and subsequently keep this forum going so I can waste everybody time yeah you guessed it.... I buy used cars too.

I'm with you. I'm done trying to buy a hot tub. I stepped back from the process yesterday after the HS dealer raised the price on a 2008 model compared to what he quoted me last month. That is to say he wants more in 2009 for a 2008 model than he did in 2008. He said "sorry prices are going up". For the record I've been in his store twice for 1 hour total and have not been wasting his time. I've decided that I'm no longer going to buy a hot tub, at least from a dealer. I've decided that these appliances are just not worth what people are willing to pay for them, particularly in the dealer format.

All sundance spas are full foam and have an abs bottom pan, I don't know what that guy was showing you... but something is not right. Btw, All spas are only coated on the shell in the equipment bay. It was a Marin all right as I've researched it well online. I could see the side with the panels as well has half way down both of the adjacent sides.... hardly any insulation. Do they have a "cheap it down" option for the dealers?

I looked at a 08 Sundance 880 series Marin tonight and was very surprised. Having heard over and over again how great Sundance is I was surprised to find out this 9k tube had less than half an inch thick of insulation sprayed on the under side of the shell and that was it! I thought these things were suppose to be full foam? Also the bottom was just wood as opposed to some sort of abs pan. We took the paneling off the motor side and you could see clear down either side........ just thin insulation. Looked EXACTLY like my costco tub that I sent back except the costco tub had more insulation! The beachcomber 360 (cheaper series) I looked at last week was nicer!.... at least from the appearance on construction, not features. What am I missing? Also the sticker on the inside of the filter area said October 07. Is this an 08 or 07? Thanks for any input...... just kind of surprised as I had held Sundance in such high regard due to this forum and then it looks pretty run of the mill when I get to see the guts. I guess the argument could be the components are better but I don't get it???

Hi I was curious what you disliked about the Marin or liked more about the Altamar? Thanks

Rabbit Ears Thanks for the update. It sounds like we're standing at the same threshold. My wife is also sharing in this research experience. It just so happens that she's from Canada and her family has two hot tubs. We're uncertain of brands because they're both recessed by brick. I've visited a couple of local dealerships (Jacuzzi, Sundance) and have not been impressed. One in particular really turned me off. However, my gut-intuition is leaning towards the Beachcomber. I'm going to schedule a wet test soon. It is a bit pricy considering that it's a first time purchase. However, after reading so many of the threads regarding some of the less expensive models and all of the improvising that many people had to do, it appears that Keith (Beachcomber Founder) has taken many of these issues into consideration via R&D. One of the reasons I'm treading with caution is because this local company sells a completely different product and about a year ago decided to add spas (Beachcomber) to their list. So, the longevity isn't there even though this product can potentially sell itself. Warranty work would be covered by a spa service contractor and not the dealer who sells the units. Maybe this is typical. However, it's always to good to know who is going to show-up or pony-up if things aren't panning out! I'll continue to do my research on this one. Please keep me posted if you chose to buy one. Ironically, when you responded I was just looking at a Beachcomber dealer in Alberqer., NM. There website was pretty informative. Regards Hi Weanut. I'm in ABQ as well. I've had the same experience. Curious where you are at in the purchase. I've wet tested some marquis tubs on the west side (dealer is pleasant) but have not liked any thus far. He has the prices pretty low right now (marquis euphorias for 6 and 7k). I'm waiting to wet test a 360 at beachcomber and a J-325 at Jacuzzi once they get water. The same guy that owns hotsprings owns jacuzzi, sundance, and caldera in ABQ as well.... he has like four stores and dominates most of the good brands. I'm pretty excited about either marquis or beachcomber.

Assuming your hot tub is 400 gallons, when it drops from 101 degrees to 99 degrees your water loses about 12,586,464 joules of energy. Assuming you have a 5.5 kilowatt heater (5500 joules per second of added heat), it should take about 38 minutes to raise the temperature to 101 (neglecting any energy the pump adds or heat loss during that time). That may be a little long honestly. Since the physical force causing your hot tub to lose energy is the temperature differential between the water and the outside, there really is not a big difference between 99 and 101. That's to say that if it's 32 F outside and 99 F in your tub there is not much of an increase in heat loss when it's 32 F outside and 101 F in your tub (the higher the temperature difference the higher the heat/energy transfer rate). When it comes to reducing energy loss from the water to the outside environment, the only two factors are insulation and delta t (temperature difference). Since the R value is fixed for the most part and the delta t is rather insignificant between your two cases, the only reason economy mode might be good is because the heater and pump (pump is on when heater is on) will cycle less and possibly last longer. Maybe the way to go is to have the economy mode set to finish filtering/heating an hour or so before you typically use the tub (that would work for predictable types like me)? That seems like it might be the best of both worlds because the tub will be filtered, hot, and not turning the pump and heater on off on off on off on off unless it's during the filtering times of day you specify. If the tub is so well insulated that the heater and pump only turn on and off an additional five times a day outside of the filter cycle, than that adds up to 9125 more cycles in five years. Equipment wear and tear and maintenance is a real expense too. I'll try out my thesis when I get the new tub

Ok... thank you. It does appear based on another post that the LE package won't break the bank. The dealer's 360 is an 09 so I doubt it matters to him if I order a different one.... heck maybe dealers like to just order as opposed to pull sales models of the current year off the floor. The wet test is next so if that works out good I'll likely get the LE package, but maybe not the ozone, just ozone ready plumbing. Thanks again. Hopefully the dealer will get it filled soon and call me.

Thanks Pathfinder. It looks like the LE is a decent package. I'm kind of on the ledge as to what to do. I'm pretty basic in that all I'm looking for is a no frills well made spa for therapy with more than two or three seat options. What has been running through my head is will it matter four years form now if I have the LE package? I realize it seems to offer a good value at the time of purchase, but will that complexity be worth the maintenance a few years from now? I understand that ozone will save me some money on chemicals, but will it make a big difference in the water (50% less sanitizer level compared to N2/Frog) when I'm in it or make the chemicals so much easier to maintain that it's worth the repair every few years as I've heard? I've also read that circ pumps are nice but that kicking the main on a couple times a day works good too. Anyway I'm not trying to poo poo your advice, I'm just trying to be critical of what I want to deal with. I tend to be guilty of buying features I don't use or end up disabling the product later (sort of like electric windows in your car back when they didn't last but a few years), thus the conflict in my mind. I like your advice as far as LE/ozone ready. Is it possible to get the 4 wall/protec steps without The other LE options? Thanks!

You only listed 2 sanitizers here. Chlorine and Bromine. Anything else will be suplemental to that. So think of it this way. You have to use chlorine or bromine, you can decide if you want ozone or ions added to reduce the quantity of chlorine or bromine you add but you still add. So nothing changes, your adding chlorine or bromine. I personal liked using ozone and ions together to stretch the lenght of time between additions of sanitizer when I wasn't using the tub. Thanks Roger. I knew ozone reduced the amount of sanitizer, but I didn't realize ions were doing the same thing. From what I've read it sounds like Nature2 is a bromine system and frog is a chlorine system. Do they basically work the same way but with different sanitizers? here is the million dollar question for me. How much do ions reduce sanitizer vs. ozone? If I can get away with out ozone I'd like to do it, but not if the alternative was having the keep the sanitizer at standard or near standard levels. I'm really liking the idea of a simple spa, or at least that's what I've convinced myself of the last couple days.... it changes fast and often.

Same dimensions as my wife and I! But I found the Jacuzzi models (some I think were 38" high) too deep for my own comfort and my wife floated like an inner tube. We ended up with a 35" model and the positions of its particular seating works well for each of us. (I tend to end up in the deeper therapy seat and she in the higher adirondack therapy chair.) It's the old "wet test" "wet test" "wet test" and if you are married | partnered, you better "do it together", yes? Hey! Colorado too I see My wife is currently pregnant so we might have to wait a bit with the testing then. It sounds like we have had a similar though process as far as number of people, gallons, and going to the dealers after extensive web searches. Each time I went looking to test a particular tub after internet research I was disappointed as they were not filled or not on the floor. I don't want a honker tub but I also want enough variety in the seats that I don't feel limited if I end up hating 50% of the seats in a two seater. After doing a little wet testing I was amazed at how "off" my eyes were from reality as well as my analytic process. I was wavering on how important wet testing may be in spite of all the advice here because the dealers don't have all the tubs full of water. After getting in a 10k tub the other night (looking in the 6k range for therapy and no "Chrome") that I would have been incredibly dissatisfied with had I bought, I wouldn't buy a tub for half off with out wet testing first. I'm currently looking at the beachcomber 360, which has different height seats (as do most I think) and is about 350 gallons. I also like the fact is has one side a little narrower than the other for my placement issues but still is substantial. I dry tested it and the seats were comfortable and pragmatic. It only has one pump and is pretty basic, but it does have an ozone option. I was thinking I could manually shut off most of the seats since it does not have a diverter valve. I might hate it once I wet test, but based on dry tests it was a breath of fresh air in the line ups I had been considering. I feel a lot of pressure to pick up a cheap 08 model as the dealers have them discounted 15-30 percent, but If I don't like the higher-featured tub what's the savings worth? I recently changed my approach. Instead of researching the heck out of the tubs online, I'm going to the dealers and saying: "I'm buying a tub in the next 30 days, I absolutely will not buy a tub unless I've wet tested it, What can you do to sell me a tub?" That seems to work a lot better than spec checking online. Depending on how big your market is you may have better results when you want to go wet test something you have been researching online. I limited myself too much before I got wet and once I did I changed my thought process that all the web searching was based upon. Good luck as I've found this more difficult than trying to buy a car!

I have been inquiring on that model too this week, kind of wondering how much he was asking you for it? I'm from Canada and the salesmen was asking $6,300 Cdn in my case. 5500 USD including delivery, set up, chemicals, cover. The model here does not have ozone. I'm not sure if that included a cover lifter but I want one. I like it because it seems to offer only what I want and not much more. A dry test was promising but I'm waiting for a wet test to decide. I tested some close-out 2008 Marquis tubs earlier this week that were originally at a much higher price point but they didn't seem comfortable. I'm trying to decide if ozone is really worth the added complexity as the 360 can be ordered with ozone. I have no real world experience as to how beneficial ozone is vs. the hassle. How do those prices compare once you convert currency? I'm not up on the conversion. Conversion price is about the same take or leave $100. The one I was offered did not include ozone but included the cover 3 to 2 inch), GFI switch and chemicals. For $670 more he included the Hybrid package (Limited edition in 2008), namely the motors outside the casing in the steps, the circ pumps, everlite lites (???), thicker cover (4 to 3), RFM (????) . If I'm not mistaken the salesman told me that the ozone was pretty worthless without the circ pump, but I guess the experts could tell you more about this or if it is even true. He also told me that some people have reactions to ozone, mostly those suffering from asthma. He seemed more enthused about the UV water care, but don't remember what is does. I'm still in the early stage of my shopping but this one did interest me for the same reasons as you. What is RFM....maybe the larger motor? There is only one pump in this hot tub. Is you dealer indicating his price is a discount? Those options sound nice and I'm sure everybody that has bought them "likes them", but I can't help wonder just what all the extra plumbing and things to break are worth (that's really a question)? I pulled the mechanical cover off at the dealer and it was very very simple. The only thing that has me thinking I may want the ozone is if I will have to run significantly higher chemical concentrations without. I wonder if there is anybody that can chime in as to using: bagunide (sp) Chlorine Bromine Silver ion/Ch Silver ion/Br or any of the above with an ozone? Does the invent of the Silver ion approach reduce the benefit ozone adds?

I have been inquiring on that model too this week, kind of wondering how much he was asking you for it? I'm from Canada and the salesmen was asking $6,300 Cdn in my case. 5500 USD including delivery, set up, chemicals, cover. The model here does not have ozone. I'm not sure if that included a cover lifter but I want one. I like it because it seems to offer only what I want and not much more. A dry test was promising but I'm waiting for a wet test to decide. I tested some close-out 2008 Marquis tubs earlier this week that were originally at a much higher price point but they didn't seem comfortable. I'm trying to decide if ozone is really worth the added complexity as the 360 can be ordered with ozone. I have no real world experience as to how beneficial ozone is vs. the hassle. How do those prices compare once you convert currency? I'm not up on the conversion.

A very good friend has a 300 series that is now a few years old (6-7) He has only had one problem with a jet pump and I have been his service guy. Yes it is simple, solid and reliable. Thanks..... that sounds encouraging. Looking forward to a wet test.

Will do. Apparently the jets can be shut off individually and it's not loaded with jets so I should be able to divert to the seats I want. I know that's a lame way to do it but it should work.

I just saw one tonight and have requested a wet test. Looks like a no frills hot tub that is built decent. A dry test revealed that a couple of the seats have jets in my area of interest and it seemed comfortable. About the right size for my location as well. Thanks if anybody has input. edit add: It's a very basic model.... one pump, one filter, balboa controls/heater, no diverters (jets can be individually shut off), no zone, no circ pump. I'm thinking I can live with out the bells and whistles and still have a good therapy tub for me. http://www.beachcomberhottubs.com/hot-tub-...-series/360.asp

Thanks guys. I will try the reward and the promise if the dealer does not mind hooking them up. Larry.... the epic is just too big for my yard and budget but thanks for the post So is the euphoria for that matter. I went back to Beachcomber tonight and they had just put a 2009 360 model (dry) on the floor. To be honest I think I like that tub better than the remaining Marquis tubs based on dry tests. The 360 is pretty basic in appearance and features but I like the size, jet locations, and seats. The equipment compartment revealed that the BC360 has an abs pan that comes up higher than the siding, a balboa heater and control unit, one 3.5 hp pump and filter, and black abs lining hiding what they told me is full foam insulation. In contrast the 2008 euphoria that I wet tested last night appears to be a 10k (that I can get for 6k) tub while the Beachcomber 360 is a "stripped down model" that is 5.5k I'll be comparing the marquis reward and BC360 via wet test soon. The reward has trizone, 2 filters vs. 1, ozone, inline chemicals, water fall, and exterior lights that the BC360 does not have. Are any of these a must have? I'm thinking the BC will be just fine in comparison if I shut off the jets in the seats I'm not using (compare to trizone) if I need more power, skip the ozone or have it added if it really is the bomb, use frog floater, forget the water fall and exterior lights. Is this line of thinking sane? Also isn't a well made tub that lacks all the bells and whistles a good bet as far as longevity and minimal maintenance?..... no diverter valuves, no ozinator, no circ pump.... all that has be hooked up in electrical circuits and with water connections. I'm not saying those features are useless, rather if I really like the 360 as I suspect I may that it's ok not to have all the stuff. http://www.marquisspas.com/spa_reward.asp http://www.beachcomberhottubs.com/hot-tub-...-series/360.asp

Thanks for your response. This was my first wet test of a high-end spa. To be honest I was not impressed but I'm not sure what I was expecting. I've always been used to a single very powerful jet at a gym spa and that's about it. I felt like the Euphoria didn't have enough "force". From what I've been reading may my concept of what is good (really powerful jets) is really just what is irritating after a couple minutes? The euphoria was also a little big for me and my location. I also tried a retreat but that was not for me either. I take back any negative rhetoric I have spewed about dealers. This guy was nice, did not say "in the industry" once, didn't even try to oversell the quality of his spas. I think he is hurting because it looks like he has a lot of his stuff pretty cheap and he mentioned his finance companies were getting really tight or cutting him off.... sucks. Anyway he will hook up his other spas for me to try as well. He has a 08 reward for 6k, 09 reward for 7k, a quest that he will upgrade to the 160gpm pump and sell for 5.2k, and a 08 or 09 (can't remember) promise for 6.5ish k. All of these prices include cover, lifter, steps, delivery, set up, chemicals. Do any of those tubs/prices jump out at you in the last paragraph? Thanks for your response!

Now that I've looked at Sundance, Hot Springs, Beachcomber, and Caldera and have yet to wet test anything due to dealer inconvenience, I've discovered the Marquis dealer is more accommodating and closer to my price point (I think). I'm going to wet test a Marquis Euphoria tonight. I am curious what the main differences between the Euphoria and Destiny are as they seem very similar. I called about a Destiny and the dealer said they had every tub except the Destiny. He told me he had a base Euphoria (2008) for 6k and the mid model is 7k (2008). Are those decent prices? I was expecting the price to be higher since I had read the Destiny is in the 9k range. I'm not sure what that includes but I'll know more in a few hours. Anyway this dealer has been decent on the phone and when I asked about wet testing he said he would meet me any evening at his shop for a private meeting and wet testing of the Euphoria. The Euphoria is larger than I wanted as this will pretty much be just for me, but what I've read lately is that a bigger tub gives a single person more therapy options because one can move from seat to seat. He indicated with two days notice he will hook any tub he has up for me to try. Any good or bad experiences with Marquis service? The dealer has not been around very long so I'm wondering how Marquis is to work with if I had to go that route. Thanks for any inputs on price and the Euphoria. I think this guy may need to dump some 08 tubs but maybe that price is pretty standard. Matt