Shaamus

FWIW, since Jacuzzi's main cover supplier started having trouble about a year ago, Jacuzzi has begun to use multiple companies for their covers. It's possible that your covers just came from separate suppliers and you both have the same model year tub.

The cross-reference skus for the 3 most common replacement brands: Pleatco PWK30 Unicel C-6430 Filbur FC-3915 Probably because you need five of them, but this sku is always in our top 3 sellers each month.

Didn't their plant burn down earlier this year? Or was that someone else?

Which filter are you looking to compare? Does the filter they sent you have a Pleatco number on it? I wasn't aware that Master was using the Waterway 50sqft filter in one of their spas. You're just looking for a Microban version of the PWW50 or PWW50P3? With Pleatco, you just add -M on the end of the filter code for the Microban version. So, the PWW50 would be PWW50-M and the PWW50P3 would be PWW50P3-M. Also, the only difference between the PWW50 and the PWW50P3 is that the latter comes with the removable P3 (1-1/2" SAE thread) adapter so the PWW50P3 can be easily converted to the PWW50 by removing the adapter. Hope that helps.

Any aftermarket cover manufacturer would be able to do this for you. However, if you don't already own the spa, you'll have to buy a "second" cover to make this happen. Maybe the dealer will give you a small credit for not taking the factory cover. Don't expect it to be much though as I know the credit they get from the manufacturer for not taking the cover is very small.

Ozone generation certainly does deteriorate the cover prematurely. When ozonators became mainstream we noticed a marked difference in field life for our covers.

What other brands does this place carry? Are they a spa dealer or a retailer of other items that also had spas. I don't think the La-Z-Boy brand was embraced by dealers well since it was made by Tatum and appeared to be earmarked for the mass-merchant channel. The reason I ask is that a spa dealer would probably help you out down the road. But some of these retailers that Tatum hooked up with over the years were only looking to peddle the tub and offered absolutely no other spa services. If the latter describes the outfit trying to sell you this tub, I wouldn't buy a tub made by a defunct manufacturer with no warranty. Also keep in mind that Gecko is covering those parts from date of manufacture, not date of spa sale. If the parts were on the shelf at Tatum for any amount of time, your warranty is not 27 months.

That's going to be a tough one. The triangle shape can be overcome, but because the pieces telescope inside of each other there actually is a minimum size spa required. I would probably recommend something in a tray/shelf design like the Cover Caddy, CoverShelf or Roller. That is if you have the required rear clearance.

That should tell you something. You're shopping comparable brands and everyone's within a thousand bucks. No one is playing games with you. You're not going to be able to do the math the way you are looking to do it. There aren't MSRPs like you have in cars where there's an invoice price and an MSRP and then rebates, incentives, etc. MSRP on spas from most mfrs is probably double what the wholesale unit cost is. Let's say the MSRP is $11000. Now, figure $300-$1000 per unit for inbound freight depending on where it's going and whether the dealer is big enough to order a whole truckload. Most reputable dealers are between 30%-50% markup depending on overhead, level of service, etc. At 50%, a $5500 (+ avg $650 in freight) unit cost tub is going to be priced around $8600. Out of that $2450 gross profit, most dealers are delivering it, setting it up (non-electrical), and throwing in a mix of cover lifter, steps, chemical startup kit in addition to paying store rent, utilities, advertising and actually taking something home to pay his personal bills. I would bet that you can usually get to a dealers absolute best price pretty quickly with a moderate amount of haggling. Back to the tubs on your list. Since they are all pretty much in line price-wise and I assume you're comparing similarly spec'd tubs, I would buy the tub you like the most combined with the dealer that you feel the most comfortable buying from. A bad dealer can ruin a wonderfully made tub. It's always wiser to buy your second choice of tub from the better dealer. Good luck and thanks for considering a hot tub. Like most industries, we really appreciate the business.

Garden Leisure is the private label for SCP Pool distributors. They started with Dynasty Spas, went to Tatum and then went back to Dynasty. To my knowledge, the Garden Leisures from about a year ago on were made by Dynasty again.

How much water (and where is it) is the cover holding? It may be a coincidence. Have you used the spa much since the storm? How often have you completely removed the cover since the storm?

Read a little more... yeah it's the old owner of Great Lakes.

With the geloy, the seating layout and the fact that they're in Holland MI, my guess is it's some old Great Lakes guys that didn't stick with Emerald when they were bought out of bankruptcy. The website says some nice things. Would be interesting to see one in person.

Great post hot_water. I am a huge fan of Costco too. But spatechTUO is right on point about their spas. They're playing both sides against the middle with hot tubs. They have to realize that their target spa buyer is in the $3000-$5000 price point. But the problem comes in when you start looking at what you typically get for that money. You get a spa that may be serviceable and be good for 4-6 years. But good spas last longer than that. So if you combine the return policy with the lower end of the spectrum on spas, you get what they have experienced. They sell a ton of spas at $3000-$5000 that because it's Costco people think they are comparable to the higher end models (because with a lot of products sold in bulk you get great value). But spas can't be sold bulk. It's a single unit. So you end up getting a $3000-$5000 tub for $3000-$5000. Then the comparisons begin (i.e. the ongoing holy war). When those tubs fail in 4-6 years, most will realize what they really got. They decide that they really didn't pay top dollar anyway so they'll move on quietly, maybe even buy another one with the right idea of what they are getting. But some people truly think they are getting an $8000 tub for $4000 and will want to return it when it doesn't perform like an $8000 tub. That's the problem with Costco's business model on spas. They are NOT delivering VALUE to their members that buy spas and one of these days they'll realize it and either stop selling spas entirely, sell better ones, or ammend the return policy on the spas. I agree that the guarantee should have some power over manufacturers to put only the best products in Costco. But I think funneling your entire argument toward that underestimates who really holds the power in the Costco/vendor relationship. Keep in mind that if you want to sell to Costco, you have to pay them $3000 to gain access to their purchasing systems BEFORE they buy one thing. Costco tries to eliminate any cost associated with doing business with a vendor. God bless them for trying to eliminate cost for their customer, but trying to say that Costco doesn't control most aspects of what you put in their store as far as spec/price points/etc is a little naive. Hammacher Schlemmer has the same return policy. The difference is that you won't find entry-level products or non-one-of-a-kind products in their catalog. Also, Hammacher Schlemmer also pays for its return policy by charging a little more than 15% in average margin. When you mark things up as much as they do, you can afford to eat the returns. I prefer the value that Costco delivers, but I really think they need to rethink their spa program.

That explains it.

I wasn't aware that there was another spa manufacturer in Athens TN other than Dynasty.

You guys have "many" customers spending $25-$50 a month on maintenance chemicals in addition to sanitizer and shock? Wow. And I thought ecoONE was expensive.

After going to their website, I realize they've kind of morphed their target market. They used to say they were the only thing you had to put in the water including any kind of sanitizer. When I asked them what the EPA thought of that, they only said their AquaGard product has been used in Europe for years. We passed. It looks like they're are now fashioning themselves as an "everything besides the santizer" solution. Based on what I read, I'm sure it works as intended. Reminds me a lot of ecoONE. But you still need to use sanitizer and unless Silk Balance got a lot cheaper in the two years since we spoke (it used to retail for $120ish for 3 month program), IMHO it's overpriced for what it does.

I agree that Costco's return policy shouldn't be discounted because a guy is thinking about using their return policy after eight years. But, they don't cut out the middleman. They are the middleman just like a dealer is. An extremely small percentage of spa dealers buy their tubs from a distributor and those are usually firms that are selling under 10 a year. Most dealers buy direct from the factory, just like Costco. They're a little cheaper because they have a little lower markup. I think I read that Costco tries to stay under 15%. I would say most dealers are between 25%-40% depending on the time of year you hit them. But Costco doesn't do delivery, setup, nor have to carry the overhead of a service department in the event warranty service is required. They also primarily sell the bottom end of the lines. When Costco has actually carried some better tubs, they've been up around $7000-$8000. The thing that's been lost in this holy war of Costco vs. the establishment (buying an $8000 tub that's really a $4000 tub for $4000) is that a customer can go into most dealers and get a similar product for a similar price.

Term, Did they ever add a sanitizer component? When we talked to them a couple of years ago, they were pushing the no chlorine thing.

They're either going to have to stop selling spas or change the return policy because they sell stripped down spas that aren't built to last a long time. I'm a huge Costco shopper, but it's for stuff in bulk like peanut butter and laundry detergent. You can't buy a spa in bulk. To make a spa cheap you have to make it cheap. There are quite a few mass and internet merchants selling those kinds of spas. They just aren't compatible with a 100% return it when you like satisfaction guarantee. How many companies have they put out of business so far? Keys... Hydro... Infinity... Tatum is waivering BTW, Imperial was a Gatsby (after it was bought by Jacuzzi) private label.

My comment about Eco_spas being in the minority had to do with whether people thought they offered any negligible benefit. I am aware that many choose not to use them for cost and/or convenience issues, but as many people have found, the use of them extends the life of other components in your spa. Of those who know what a floating cover is and what it does, many agree that it is a benefit.

Eco_Spas is in the minority and I'm not really sure what empirical evidence he is basing his opinion on. Floating covers greatly enhance the effectiveness and life of a traditional spa cover. This comes from a spa cover manufacturer entering our 26th year that would be "incentivized" if you didn't use them and had to buy one of our covers more often. Your cover will last longer. You are not only introducing another layer of insulation, you are bringing it to water level which (if cut and fit correctly) will reduce most of the evaporation.

Yeah, it's really not that big of a deal if you can locate where the brackets need to go.

There's nothing wrong with that spa as long as you know what you're getting. But you're not getting a $6000 tub. The Cal Victory tubs don't sell for that. It's interesting how people assume that if they buy it at Costco they are getting a huge discount. That may be true when you buy laundry detergent and peanut butter when they get you to buy the bigger sizes, but on spas it's just not the case. Outside of some of the super-low price deals (like this one), a spa dealer can put a customer in a comparable spa for the $4000-$5000 that Costco usually charges and you get the support of your local dealer. Though this would appear to be a $4000 spa for $3000 and that is a significant savings, keep that warranty in mind. Labor costs can add up fast and very frequently is as much or more than the parts required to fix the spa. The one wildcard that Costco has is that return policy, so outside of your time and hassle, you're not risking any money.