Caldera Hawaiian Versus Others (e.g. Niagara, Sundance Chelsea)

[spa_lover]

I have been reading the forum for many weeks now and learning lots as I research a new spa purchase for a spring deck/spa project. We haven't wet tested any spas yet but are wet testing a caldera this week. My issue is that a local dealer is offering a new 2009 caldera hawaiian model for $6500 Canadian, which is significantly cheaper than other tubs I have been looking at which seem to be comparable quality (e.g. sundance chelsea, caldera niagara, hotsprings vanguard). The other tubs are slightly better but are all around $10,000, which is significantly more (we do not want a lounger). I don't have the option to wet test a hawaiian anywhere near here.

My question is - is it crazy to go for the hawaiian based on a wet test of the caldera geneva? The price difference seems so significant that as long as we generally like the feel of the caldera geneva that it would be worth a bit of risk to not have the perfect tub and go for the hawaiian. the other option is to spend $10,000 for a geneva niagara or sundance chelsea. The hawaiian looks to me like it would be more than enough tub for us (mostly my wife and I using, occasional entertaining).

Any advice/feedback is greatly appreciated!

[spatech (the unreal one)]

I have been reading the forum for many weeks now and learning lots as I research a new spa purchase for a spring deck/spa project. We haven't wet tested any spas yet but are wet testing a caldera this week. My issue is that a local dealer is offering a new 2009 caldera hawaiian model for $6500 Canadian, which is significantly cheaper than other tubs I have been looking at which seem to be comparable quality (e.g. sundance chelsea, caldera niagara, hotsprings vanguard). The other tubs are slightly better but are all around $10,000, which is significantly more (we do not want a lounger). I don't have the option to wet test a hawaiian anywhere near here.

My question is - is it crazy to go for the hawaiian based on a wet test of the caldera geneva? The price difference seems so significant that as long as we generally like the feel of the caldera geneva that it would be worth a bit of risk to not have the perfect tub and go for the hawaiian. the other option is to spend $10,000 for a geneva niagara or sundance chelsea. The hawaiian looks to me like it would be more than enough tub for us (mostly my wife and I using, occasional entertaining).

Any advice/feedback is greatly appreciated!

These are all good spa makers you are looking at which is key so beyond that there are many factors to look at. Wet testing is important, especially when the spas in question have a lounge. I'd hate to skip that but these spas are lounge-less so if the deal is very good and a wet test can't happen then I can understand making the choice with only a dry test. The price you pay for the spa is also a key ingredient and I'm surprised the same dealer who sells a Niagara for $10k is selling a Hawaiian for $6500 (similar layout but smaller and yes, fewer bells and whistles).

Personally I'd pocket the difference and go with the Hawaiian (especially if it's mostly just the two of you) but don't forget the other thing we always say, who you buy from is important too. Make sure this is the kind of dealer you'd like to do business with overall.

[kaseykent]

I would definitely agree, the Hawaiian is a great buy for that price and it is great tub as well. I am a Caldera dealer and the Niagara is my favorite tub to sell, but personally, I would buy the Hawaiian because you get so much spa for the money. The only real differences are the size, lighting, and a few more jets. It even has the air blower, which the Utopia series boasts as well. Plus, if it is a 2009 it will have the 5 year warranty on the heater, pumps, etc. They are changing the Paradise series to a shorter warranty period for 2010. Hope this helps. Good Luck :-)

[spa_lover]

Thanks for the replies - much appreciated. The dealer in question is quite good - it's a highly reputable shop and I'm very comfortable with them. We are wet testing a sundance chelsee this week - should be an interesting comparision. The chelsee would be $9500 - $10,000 though, considerably more than the hawaiian. Does anyone have any feedback on whether the chelsee is worth the extra $$$?

I've checked out the dealers for some other tubs - arctic spa, marque, limelight - Though there were definitely some nice enough tubs there they seemed quite expensive for what was being offered, and for whatever reason have not been so impressed with these. Maybe I am overlooking something?

[spa_lover]

Is the change to the warranty for the 2010 Paradise series due to any quality issues? Why are they making this change?

Wet tested the Chelsee yesterday - both my wife and I really liked it - slightly larger/roomier, very comfortable, and overall a very nice tub. It does lack air jets or an in-line spa frog system, but the filter seems better than the caldera models, the lighting and waterfall is much nicer, and we found the tub very comfortable. It also is about $2000 more than the Caldera Hawaiian. Now I'm really confused and not sure what to do. Any other opinions or advice would be greatly appreciated!

Both dealers I think are very good, high quality, highly reputable.

Thanks for any help.

[Peteyboy]

Comfort is very important.

Air jets do nothing for you. They can also bring in cold air to the water. HotSpring has never used a blower.

I don't like the spa frog - I do chemical service for some spas that use it and I always find a low sanitizer level even though the bromine cartridge is all the way open.

I like the ozone, AG+ and MPS method.

If you can afford the extra money I would go with the spa that feels best to you. Many people buy a spa that wasn't their first choice for comfort and every time they get in they think of the spa they should have bought.

Good luck - WET TEST EVERYTHING YOU ARE THINKING OF

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Is the change to the warranty for the 2010 Paradise series due to any quality issues? Why are they making this change?

Wet tested the Chelsee yesterday - both my wife and I really liked it - slightly larger/roomier, very comfortable, and overall a very nice tub. It does lack air jets or an in-line spa frog system, but the filter seems better than the caldera models, the lighting and waterfall is much nicer, and we found the tub very comfortable. It also is about $2000 more than the Caldera Hawaiian. Now I'm really confused and not sure what to do. Any other opinions or advice would be greatly appreciated!

Both dealers I think are very good, high quality, highly reputable.

Thanks for any help.

This general topic of warranty length vs quality comes up fairy often. People always mistakenly think there is a direct link between warranty and quality but that's not how it works. All the major manufacturers (Caldera, D1, Hot Spring, Jacuzzi...) have multiple spa lines. Their top of the line spa will have a certain warranty length, their next line with have a shorter length and the next line still shorter. Those spas have the same shells, pumps, plumbing (sometimes same controls) yet have differing warranties. Warranties are NOT free; they are "included" with their cost built into the price of the spa. The secondary lines have shorter warranties for one major reason, to keep a lower price tag.

The Hawaiian warranty length is undoubtedly shorter than it is on Calderas top of the line models so they can offer a better price point spa for someone who likes Caldera but doesn't think they can afford the price of something like the Niagara. If the Hawaiian came with the same warranty then the price would probably be $500 more.

Ask the dealer what the actual differences are with the Hawaiian versus the Niagara or one of the other spas above it with the longer warranty. It should be mainly "bells and whistles" more than anything. If its the same pumps, controls, shell, siding, etc. then you know the difference is just about length of time vs $$.

[kaseykent]

Is the change to the warranty for the 2010 Paradise series due to any quality issues? Why are they making this change?

Wet tested the Chelsee yesterday - both my wife and I really liked it - slightly larger/roomier, very comfortable, and overall a very nice tub. It does lack air jets or an in-line spa frog system, but the filter seems better than the caldera models, the lighting and waterfall is much nicer, and we found the tub very comfortable. It also is about $2000 more than the Caldera Hawaiian. Now I'm really confused and not sure what to do. Any other opinions or advice would be greatly appreciated!

Both dealers I think are very good, high quality, highly reputable.

Thanks for any help.

This general topic of warranty length vs quality comes up fairy often. People always mistakenly think there is a direct link between warranty and quality but that's not how it works. All the major manufacturers (Caldera, D1, Hot Spring, Jacuzzi...) have multiple spa lines. Their top of the line spa will have a certain warranty length, their next line with have a shorter length and the next line still shorter. Those spas have the same shells, pumps, plumbing (sometimes same controls) yet have differing warranties. Warranties are NOT free; they are "included" with their cost built into the price of the spa. The secondary lines have shorter warranties for one major reason, to keep a lower price tag.

The Hawaiian warranty length is undoubtedly shorter than it is on Calderas top of the line models so they can offer a better price point spa for someone who likes Caldera but doesn't think they can afford the price of something like the Niagara. If the Hawaiian came with the same warranty then the price would probably be $500 more.

Ask the dealer what the actual differences are with the Hawaiian versus the Niagara or one of the other spas above it with the longer warranty. It should be mainly "bells and whistles" more than anything. If its the same pumps, controls, shell, siding, etc. then you know the difference is just about length of time vs $$.

SpaTech is absolutely correct. They are knocking some time off of the Paradise Series warranty, just to differentiate from the Utopia Series and allow it to be at a better price point. The Hawaiian is constructed with the same quality and materials as the Niagara, just minus a couple bells and whistles. In the end, I too would go with what spa is the most comfortable and the best fit for your needs.

[spa_lover]

Thanks everyone for the excellent advise. I am still a little unsure what to do - the Sundance dealer has come down on the price and right now the Sundance Chelsee would be only about $1300 more than the Caldera Hawaiian. I really wish I could wet test a Hawaiian but there is no chance of that anywhere near here. My question is this - regardless of price, is the Chelsee a better tub compared to the Hawaiian, or would people consider them to be roughly comparable/similar? If price were identical, would there be a clear winner?

Thanks for the help.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Thanks everyone for the excellent advise. I am still a little unsure what to do - the Sundance dealer has come down on the price and right now the Sundance Chelsee would be only about $1300 more than the Caldera Hawaiian. I really wish I could wet test a Hawaiian but there is no chance of that anywhere near here. My question is this - regardless of price, is the Chelsee a better tub compared to the Hawaiian, or would people consider them to be roughly comparable/similar? If price were identical, would there be a clear winner?

Thanks for the help.

If the price were the same I think the fact that the Chelsee is 7'4"sq while the Hawaiian is 7'0"sq would probably be the tie-breaker to use (assuming you liked both spas equally). I'm sure you'd be happy with either but you need to decide if that $1300 extra is worth it for the Chelesee.