Alergic To Chlorine?

[pkillur]

I'm pretty sure I DON'T have hot tub rash rampant in my spa, as I've recently flushed and santized my spa per Nitro's sanitize and water balance posts. However, my wife recently got out of the spa with burning legs and a bumpy looking rash. I didn't have anything, nor did my friend who was in with us. My FC level prior to getting in was like 2-3.

We were in the spa for perhaps 30 minutes, so 90 minutes soaking time total before she got out. She has had this happen before in other people's spas, but it never happens at our gym. I'm thinking they might use bromine at the gym though.

Just so I can get a semi-definitive answer, is bromine less likely to become an allergic reaction? Or is Nature2 / MPS ? I realize with N2 you have to nuke the tub with chlorine every once in a while. Just trying to weigh options before I make any chemistry changes.

For now I kicked up the FC level to 7 just in case - will measure it tonight and see. How much chlorine is normal to be used without a load? Does it oxidize itself over time? If so how often?

Current readings as of last night:

FC: 1 (bumped up to 7)

TA: Don't recall

CH: ~150

PH: 7.8

Temp: 104

I also didn't measure CYA, and I haven't added borates in yet (waiting for gentlespa to arrive). I'm still doing dichlor, but my water has only been in the tub since about the 1st or 2nd of this month.

Q1: Have you guys ever seen / known this to be an issue (allergic / sensitive to chlorine)? Or is it something else?

Q2: Is it possible for 1 person to get hot tub rash, but not others?

Q3: If one is sensitive to Chlorine, what is a more gentle way to do sanitizing: Bromine or N2?

Q4: Is it possible I'm just dumb and I missed something with my water chemistry and I caused it??

[gman]

pkillur,

I certainly hope your wife's skin reaction is not serious and you can resolve your hot tub water chemistry quickly and easily. Just a few thoughts on the matter:

1. Of course, one person can be allergic to the same water conditions that another person does not find problematic.

2. It's possible that your gym's pool/spa uses bromine or something other than chlorine, but I think the majority of pool maintenance professionals use a chlorine regimen for pool/spa sanitation and maintenance. I'm sure you could find out with a simple phone call. IF chlorine is used, then you might want to find out what is the chlorine level in the gym's pool/spa and how often they check. The answers may help you determine if your wife has an allergy to chlorine, or whether she her skins sensitivity is to "other" water ingredients and/or contaminants.

3. You were unsure of your TA and CYA levels. I would recommend you re-test your water's TA and your CYA levels to be sure both are not too high or too low. Extreme amounts of either or both would definitely impact the condition of the water and the rate of chlorine usage. Some people are particularly sensitive to high alkalinity.

4. How are your filters? You said you recently flushed and sanitized your spa. Did you replace or clean the filters after you flushed and sanitized?

5. What was your total Chlorine (FC + CC = ?). Do you have a high level of combined chlorine in the tub? Since you just flushed and sanitized your tub, I wouldn't expect you to have a high level of CC, but if so, this might be indicative of some contaminant still in the tub.

I think the answers to the above questions might help you narrow your focus on the real culprit irritating your wife's skin.

good luck!

gman

[pkillur]

1. Of course, one person can be allergic to the same water conditions that another person does not find problematic.

Yes, I kinda thought that. My thinking is that 2 of the 3 of us would get hot tub rash, but I would think it's highly improbable that it could develop that quickly with a ppm of 2-3 prior to soaking.

2. It's possible that your gym's pool/spa uses bromine or something other than chlorine, but I think the majority of pool maintenance professionals use a chlorine regimen for pool/spa sanitation and maintenance. I'm sure you could find out with a simple phone call. IF chlorine is used, then you might want to find out what is the chlorine level in the gym's pool/spa and how often they check. The answers may help you determine if your wife has an allergy to chlorine, or whether she her skins sensitivity is to "other" water ingredients and/or contaminants.

Waiting for a call back, but the more I think about it, they have hideously annoying 100,000 gpm (exageration, but it feels like it) waterfalls and we are never in for more than 10-15 minutes at a time.

3. You were unsure of your TA and CYA levels. I would recommend you re-test your water's TA and your CYA levels to be sure both are not too high or too low. Extreme amounts of either or both would definitely impact the condition of the water and the rate of chlorine usage. Some people are particularly sensitive to high alkalinity.

I will check the TA and CYA levels and report back. I didn't think about the TA, that might be the problem the more I think about it.

4. How are your filters? You said you recently flushed and sanitized your spa. Did you replace or clean the filters after you flushed and sanitized?

Brand new. My in-laws (previous owners) hadn't done a whole ton with the hot tub for a few months and I highly suspect that they were a year plus old (which might not be a huge deal if they were religiously maintained, but they werent!). They went into TSP looking clodded and goopy. They came out yellow. I figured it would be 34 bucks well spent for a new filter...

5. What was your total Chlorine (FC + CC = ?). Do you have a high level of combined chlorine in the tub? Since you just flushed and sanitized your tub, I wouldn't expect you to have a high level of CC, but if so, this might be indicative of some contaminant still in the tub.

I didn't bother testing CC, though it's a good point you bring up that there might be a lot if something was lurking. I just didn't both because my FC was at like 20 when I did spa-flush, and then I drained it. Is it possible that something could survive that? I had superchlorinated previously, but read Nitro's guide to nuking a tub, and decided to do it twice with a good dose of measure, and also realized it could need flushed out. I don't have the data, but I'll get it again tonight.

[gman]

pkillur,

It sounds like you can begin to eliminate some possible sources of your irritants, like crap (technical term) in the filters, for example.

I would still be curious about the sanitation used in your gym's pool/spa. I would think for public health reasons, the chlorine levels in a public pool/spa may be maintained a bit higher than in your tub. However, the level of activity in the pool at any given day or time can vary considerably the level could be quite low after use by a high number of guests/members. However, if the gym's pool has a significantly higher level of chlorine, even with the relatively short duration your wife spends in the pool, you may be able to eliminate chlorine as the culprit.

I know you are following Nitro's decontamination and dichlor/bleach regimen. Nitro does a great job of explaining tub sanitation and water chemistry. He talks at length about the importance of having the proper TA to control ph drift. But I don't recall whether he explicitly states that getting the TA under control is one of the first things you should address after decontamination. I think many people focus on the FC that they overlook the importance of getting the TA under control. As you well know, once the TA is in the right ball park (40-80 ppm), the pH becomes easier to maintain and you can focus then on the proper levels of FC. If the TA is high, this could well be your culprit.

I would wait until you are sure your TA is right before adding the Gentle Spa.

[pkillur]

pkillur,

It sounds like you can begin to eliminate some possible sources of your irritants, like crap (technical term) in the filters, for example.

I would still be curious about the sanitation used in your gym's pool/spa. I would think for public health reasons, the chlorine levels in a public pool/spa may be maintained a bit higher than in your tub. However, the level of activity in the pool at any given day or time can vary considerably the level could be quite low after use by a high number of guests/members. However, if the gym's pool has a significantly higher level of chlorine, even with the relatively short duration your wife spends in the pool, you may be able to eliminate chlorine as the culprit.

I know you are following Nitro's decontamination and dichlor/bleach regimen. Nitro does a great job of explaining tub sanitation and water chemistry. He talks at length about the importance of having the proper TA to control ph drift. But I don't recall whether he explicitly states that getting the TA under control is one of the first things you should address after decontamination. I think many people focus on the FC that they overlook the importance of getting the TA under control. As you well know, once the TA is in the right ball park (40-80 ppm), the pH becomes easier to maintain and you can focus then on the proper levels of FC. If the TA is high, this could well be your culprit.

I would wait until you are sure your TA is right before adding the Gentle Spa.

We tried the tub again twice this weekend, and I think my wife is sensitive to Chlorine. I checked the levels again, TA was slightly high @ like 90-100, but everything else looked ok. It seems alright if she's not in for more than 15 minutes and uses something like cetaphil. I'm 99% sure it's chemical rather than bacterial, because @ 3-4 ppm or so she was a bit itchy before a shower, and at 1 or so (I let it drop a bit before getting in again) she was hardly itchy. I added a bit of pH down, but I haven't tested in 24 hours to see if it has taken effect or not yet. Do you ever reach a point of no return where this stuff doesn't work? It seems like I've added a bunch of it.

Do you guys know if bromine is less apt to cause this, or is it a trail and error situation?

[gman]

pkillur

It may be a trial and error situation and your wife may be allergic to chlorine, but...I'd still try to get the TA lower.

During the initial period right after we got our tub when we were still trying to balance the water properly, I got the TA reduced to 80 - 100 ppm and the pH to 7.5. My wife has sensitive skin and when she used the tub, her skin had a similar "itchy" feel. But at that TA level, our pH was still unstable. To get the pH under control, I had to lower the TA to 40 - 50 ppm. With the TA at that level, her "itchyness" disappeared.

Now you may find that if you reduce your TA even further, your wife may still have the same reaction. But it might be worth a shot.

Does your wife have any sensitivity to your household water when bathing or showering? Most household water has some chlorine in it. Have you tested your household water for chlorine? This may also help identify the culprit.

gman

[pkillur]

pkillur

It may be a trial and error situation and your wife may be allergic to chlorine, but...I'd still try to get the TA lower.

During the initial period right after we got our tub when we were still trying to balance the water properly, I got the TA reduced to 80 - 100 ppm and the pH to 7.5. My wife has sensitive skin and when she used the tub, her skin had a similar "itchy" feel. But at that TA level, our pH was still unstable. To get the pH under control, I had to lower the TA to 40 - 50 ppm. With the TA at that level, her "itchyness" disappeared.

Now you may find that if you reduce your TA even further, your wife may still have the same reaction. But it might be worth a shot.

Does your wife have any sensitivity to your household water when bathing or showering? Most household water has some chlorine in it. Have you tested your household water for chlorine? This may also help identify the culprit.

gman

So I did test it initially, and I don't recall the numbers other than FC (which is what I was testing for), and there was almost none - maybe .5 percent. The Parker Water and Sanitation District (PWSD) says they "use a variety of methods including but not limited to chlorine and SEAquest". As well, the annual report from them (http://www.pwsd.org/pdf/conservation/2008-CCR.pdf) says their average test output in 2008 was .05-1.99 ppm. What is odd to me is that I am literally less than a mile from the main pump station, so I would expect higher than normal chlorine, and lower than normal metals. I actually have the opposite, they say their goal for TDS was 160, I'm getting 180-200 (once again - this is a strip though - not a drop test, haven't gotten to that yet), and I've added calcium to boost up the levels a bit.

My wife doesn't get very itchy unless she uses certain bath stuff, so it might just be the TA like you said. Per Nitro's guide, if I'm understanding it (http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=13634) turn on the jets and air and run it for 20-30 minutes, test and add until I get it to the point I want it at. Run for another 30-60 minutes, test and add acid if it's gone up higher again. If it doesn't raise after turning off the jets, add a touch of baking powder (?)

[gman]

Just a note about lowering your TA...

If you get the Taylor Test Kit, you'll find booklet with the kit that contains tables for adjusting various elements of your water. There is a table that explains how much acid you need to add to lower your TA. I know Nitro says to add acid in increments. But on another thread on this forum, it was recommended that when adjusting the TA by adding acid, the percentage of the total amount of acid you need to add does should not be added in necessarily even amounts. The higher the TA, the greater the portion of the total amount of acid you need to add initially to get the TA lower. When the TA is very high, small amounts of the added acid will have little effect on lowering the TA. So, if you add the acid in relatively even portions, you may end up having to add more acid than originally calculated because the initial smaller portions may not have much impact on the TA. I know I have not explained this very well. I hope it makes sense.

Good luck.

gman