Nitro/chemgeek Dichlor/bleach With Nature2

[Mska]

I've been using Nature2 and I wanted to switch to dichlor/bleach but I have a couple of concerns...

we started with Nature2 and was told to add dichlor granules before and after every use.... And MPS once a week.... This was fine but my PH started to fluctuate. I am going to drain and refill my tub and switch to dichlor /bleach but I have a ton of MPS left .... Can I still use the nature2 with this method if so how? I'm not a big fan of the smell of bleach nor the smell on my skin after showering like at public pools and spas.

I have a Jacuzzi-335 360 gallon tub. We also are in California under drought restrictions so using Nature2 would have allowed us to reuse the water for our grass area. Any help on what and how to do it would be appreciated already got a Taylor 2006 drop test kit.

Dar

[chem geek]

You can use spa water that has been chlorinated as a water source for your grass area. You just do so when the chlorine level is low as would be the case just before you would do a soak. Municipal tap water that is also used for watering has up to 4 ppm chlorine in it though usually it's closer to 1 ppm. Most municipalities have switched to using monochloramine instead, but the point is that for decades tap water had chlorine and watered plants with no issues.

MPS is net acidic so the pH would drop when using it and then rise again from aeration in between its use. With the Dichlor-then-bleach method the pH would tend to rise from aeration (carbon dioxide outgassing) so to combat that you lower your TA to around 50 ppm and then use 50 ppm Borates (usually by adding boric acid) for additional pH buffering.

If you do the Dichlor-then-bleach method properly, you shouldn't smell much chlorine during the soak because you should be starting your soak with around 1-2 ppm FC and you should have 30-40 ppm CYA in the water that moderates chlorine's strength. You then add chlorine (or a mix of chlorine and MPS -- see below) after your soak to oxidize the bather waste. You should have LESS chlorine smell during your soak than you did before because you said you added Dichlor granules before your soak so probably had the chlorine higher than you will be doing (though it depends on the level of chlorine you were using and over time the increasing CYA level would have over-moderated chlorine's strength).

If you want you can use a separately added mix of MPS and bleach after your soak. Without the Nature2 stick with its silver ions you can't use the MPS alone for disinfection, but you can use it to help oxidize bather waste. So you'll still want to add chlorine as well after your soak in an amount such that you still measure a low chlorine residual just before your next soak. Basically, this will be similar to what you did with Nature2 except you'll be using bleach instead of Dichlor (except at first to build up some CYA) and only add it after your soak and not before (unless your chlorine level is too low before your soak, but you should not let it get that low).

Note that if you use MPS, that it lowers pH and TA so you can try targeting 80 ppm for TA to start out and see if that works well for a reasonably balanced pH. If the pH tends to fall, then raise the TA (usually by adding baking soda). If the pH tends to rise, then you can let the TA drop but not below 50 ppm. In your 360 gallon tub, every tablespoon (3 teaspoons) of MPS will lower the TA by about 2.6 ppm.

[minnespa]

I use the Nitro/Chemgeek method with Nature2 and it works splendidly. It's a nice backup, albeit an expensive one.

[Mska]

Thank You Wizard of water...

I just retrieved my Taylor K-2006 kit...will the MPS combo with Chlorine alter my FC reading?

Just to Clarify...

Before I soak I check the water to see if I ned to add chlorine and add if its too low ...do I add MPS as well?

After the Soak add a combo of MPS and Chlorine after doing another test with the drop kit... I should be able to figure out chlorine amount using Chlorine demand how about MPS?

do I check CYA as well each time?

Dar

[apostlej2015]

I plan on using my MPS up by shocking every week (3 tbsp). I have 60TA and my pH is locked on 7.7 (yes i used borates which is alkaline). I figure the gradual use of MPS will drive me to 50TA and 7.4.

ANy cheap place to buy the reageant mska is referring to to remove the MPS false positive when measuring FC with the kit? Amazon is $30 for 2oz.

[minnespa]

From what I've read on here, if you're only planning on using the tub for an hour or so, you shouldn't need to add any chlorine preemptively. There may be some growth of bacteria, but that will be taken care of when you add bleach after getting out (we use the Nature2 in addition to the dichlor/bleach method). I'm in the same boat as some people here in that I enjoy the smell of chlorine, but my wife does not. That leads us to add the chlorine after we get out, and it works just fine. The CYA will remain relatively stable for a pretty good period of time. I check mine every couple of weeks and will add if necessary. We don't bother using MPS except in the case of extremely high bather loads in order to keep a level of free chlorine available for sanitation (the MPS will oxidize bather waste while the bleach sanitizes). Interestingly enough, I was just about to post about a chemical plan for a hot tub party!

[chem geek]

I just want to be clear about the pros/cons/risks of using low vs. higher chlorine levels at the start of a soak. If one starts with 1-2 ppm FC, then the smell of chlorine and formed chloramines should be minimal during a soak, but unless it's a low bather load (i.e. just one person, larger spa, short soak) the chlorine may run out during the soak as it oxidizes bather waste (sweat and urine, mostly, but also your skin and swimsuit and some outgassing especially when jets are used).

While there may be monochloramine formed that will continue to more slowly inhibit bacteria, when the FC is at or near zero you don't have fast pathogen kill times so do not have protection from person-to-person transmission of disease. That's the downside risk of not starting a soak with enough chlorine or otherwise maintaining it's level (say, with a saltwater chlorine generator). The risk is lower when sharing a spa with family members since you may be sharing bacteria and viruses with them outside the tub, but to minimize risk clean your bums thoroughly as that is where most of the riskier pathogens come from (i.e. from fecal matter).

It is true that bacteria generally take 15-60 minutes to double in population so you aren't going to get uncontrolled bacterial growth in the hour one is in the spa. However, that is not the same as preventing bacteria or viruses from transmitting from one person to another via the water.

The EPA rules that are specified on the labels of disinfectant products tell you to maintain an FC level since these rules are designed for efficacy and safety.

As for the least expensive source for the Taylor R-0867-C reagent is Amato Industries. Even the kit on Amazon is $23, not $30 and the reagent $10 so about the same as Amato.

[apostlej2015]

Thanks for the cheap source links for the reagent.