Can You Help Me Get This 'perfectly Clear'?

[kenoflife]

Hey everyone,

I got a 1998 350 gallon Hotsprings Jetsetter used and installed a couple of weeks ago...it does not have an ozonator.

After reading and talking around I've come to these conclusions about what I might need to do the good chemistry -

1. Bromine, Baqua, and Chlorine are all acceptable sanitizers. But Bromine is a little smelly, not really easier on the body than Chlorine, and requires a little floaty thing that might be a bit much for my little tub. Baqua gets complicated and expensive as time goes on for many people, and their advertised line of possible additive offshoots sort of bothered me. Chlorine is cheap, easy, dies down to near nothing by the time you use it - but has to be added more often. Soaking in much of it at all while my pores are wide open really doesn't appeal to me at all - but i'm not 'allergic' to it and perhaps the poison that you know is better than the one you don't. Its also an industrial and militaristic scourge on the planet.

So - I choose chlorine anyway. About 1/2 tsp after getting out, a little more once a week or after heavy use.

Test 10 minutes after putting it in and running, top open. Level drops to zero by the next day...

2. Chlorine use can be lessened somewhat by getting an ozonator. A cheaper one like the JED would do

for this type of tub. I don't understand if it would have to be entirely replaced when it goes bad, or if there

is a little chip that gets replaced yearly, or what....anyone? But the ozonator might not do a heck of a lot anyway - except keeping me from having to add chlorine every day? Right?

3. The Nature2 inserts I just bought off ebay ($50 for 3 - a years supply) allow me to use MPS instead of

chlorine most of the time. Seems a little confusing here - it says that you just need an initial chlorine shock to get it going, then use 1 TBSP MPS per person per use and keep testing it....seems like a lot of MPS - especially at the cost of the Hot Springs type?

Maybe a small tub, 20-minutes a day and a little more on weekends, an ozonator, MPS, Nature2 =

getting away with no chlorine for a month at a time? Or is that just wishfull thinking? Tell me it would work!

But I think y'all won't....

because... its said that chlorine is the only acceptable sanitizer in this whole package, so.....

it seems I'd have to add chlorine anyway, but... less?

Maybe alternate it with the MPS?

Once a week? After particularly gnarly guests or kids?

And if so, do you still test for chlorine or just the MPS?

And if I did just go with chlorine and occasional MPS does the Nature2 do anything at all?

4. I add Spa Up if needed for alkalinity, and Spa Defender 1 oz. per week because....its a good idea for the spa or something.

5.Clean the filter monthly, change the water/Nature 2 every 3-4 months.

Thanks for reading it through - am I on the right track, and thanks for any insight into the unclear parts....

[chem geek]

I'll give you my comments below what you wrote.

1. Bromine, Baqua, and Chlorine are all acceptable sanitizers. But Bromine is a little smelly, not really easier on the body than Chlorine, and requires a little floaty thing that might be a bit much for my little tub. Baqua gets complicated and expensive as time goes on for many people, and their advertised line of possible additive offshoots sort of bothered me. Chlorine is cheap, easy, dies down to near nothing by the time you use it - but has to be added more often. Soaking in much of it at all while my pores are wide open really doesn't appeal to me at all - but i'm not 'allergic' to it and perhaps the poison that you know is better than the one you don't. Its also an industrial and militaristic scourge on the planet.

So - I choose chlorine anyway. About 1/2 tsp after getting out, a little more once a week or after heavy use.

Test 10 minutes after putting it in and running, top open. Level drops to zero by the next day...

You have been adding WAY too little chlorine. It takes 3 fluid ounces (that's 6 tablespoons or 18 teaspoons) of regular 6% bleach in your 350 gallon spa to raise the Free Chlorine (FC) level by 4 ppm and that's probably how much you have to raise it each day. Maybe if you don't use it that much you will lose less than 4 ppm per day -- you'll have to test it with a good test kit and see. Anyway, this explains why you are not measuring chlorine the next day. A 1/2 teaspoon will only raise the FC by 0.23 ppm FC which isn't even measurable on common test kits or strips.

Bromine is more convenient than chlorine, but some people get irritation from it.

Also, I wouldn't start with using just chlorine alone since having no Cyanuric Acid (CYA) in the spa will make the chlorine outgas faster, smell more, deteriorate swimsuits faster, be more irritating, etc. You don't want too much CYA, but if you use enough Dichlor for 22 ppm FC (that's about a week's time), then that will put in 20 ppm CYA after which you will add only bleach (until you change the water after about 3 months, then start over with Dichlor initially, etc.).

To avoid the smell of chlorine, add it hours before you get into the spa or right after you leave the spa and in any event open the spa cover for 5 minutes or so before you get in.

2. Chlorine use can be lessened somewhat by getting an ozonator. A cheaper one like the JED would do

for this type of tub. I don't understand if it would have to be entirely replaced when it goes bad, or if there

is a little chip that gets replaced yearly, or what....anyone? But the ozonator might not do a heck of a lot anyway - except keeping me from having to add chlorine every day? Right?

This is true, though you still need some chlorine as a residual. If you use the CYA along with the chlorine, then I think your exposure to the chlorine is minimal. A level of 4 ppm FC with 20 ppm CYA is equivalent in disinfecting power, oxidation, etc. to about 0.23 ppm FC with no CYA so that's a pretty low amount of chlorine and is about 5 times the amount found in pools (typical 3.5 ppm FC with 30 ppm CYA) though you need more in the spa to combat the bacteria that causes hot tub itch since it's somewhat resistant to chlorine (but level I suggest should do just fine killing it). In other words, I don't think the ozonator is necessary.

3. The Nature2 inserts I just bought off ebay ($50 for 3 - a years supply) allow me to use MPS instead of

chlorine most of the time. Seems a little confusing here - it says that you just need an initial chlorine shock to get it going, then use 1 TBSP MPS per person per use and keep testing it....seems like a lot of MPS - especially at the cost of the Hot Springs type?

Maybe a small tub, 20-minutes a day and a little more on weekends, an ozonator, MPS, Nature2 =

getting away with no chlorine for a month at a time? Or is that just wishfull thinking? Tell me it would work!

But I think y'all won't....

because... its said that chlorine is the only acceptable sanitizer in this whole package, so.....

it seems I'd have to add chlorine anyway, but... less?

Maybe alternate it with the MPS?

Once a week? After particularly gnarly guests or kids?

And if so, do you still test for chlorine or just the MPS?

And if I did just go with chlorine and occasional MPS does the Nature2 do anything at all?

Technically, Nature2 REQUIRES some chlorine as a residual, similar to what an ozonator needs. You can't just use Nature2 which is just metals (silver and copper) plus MPS. You HAVE to have some chlorine anyway. Otherwise you won't kill the bacteria that causes hot tub itch. The metals simply don't kill pathogens quickly enough. They are OK for algae inhibition and for slow kill of easy pathogens (typical bacteria), but not for the hearty stuff.

Anyway, since you've already bought it, you could use it with less chlorine (perhaps 1-2 ppm FC instead of 4+). The MPS is simply there for shocking the pool to rid it of organics. It will also prevent the formation of chloramines or combined chlorine which is when chlorine combines with organics (the MPS will oxidize those organics before chlorine gets a chance to combine with them). MPS is something to be used weekly as maintenance since a residual of it is needed to oxidize organics throughout the week.

4. I add Spa Up if needed for alkalinity, and Spa Defender 1 oz. per week because....its a good idea for the spa or something.

You really need a good test kit such as the Taylor K-2006 which will tell you everything about your water chemistry. Then you can use baking soda to raise alkalinity, borax to raise pH (probably not needed since the pH will tend to rise with the spa jets aerating the water), and bleach for the chlorine. That's the BBB method (beach, borax, baking soda). You may need some dry acid (sodium bisulfate) to keep pH lower. That's it.

5.Clean the filter monthly, change the water/Nature 2 every 3-4 months.

Yes, but you can save money by not having to use the Nature 2 if you just use chlorine alone (with the guidelines noted above of starting with Dichlor then switching to bleach).

I know you are concerned about chlorine, but the concentrations found in spas and pools are very, very low and it isn't the chlorine itself that is the problem, but the chloramines that are formed when chlorine combines with organics. ALL of the studies that showed incidents of asthma and respiratory problems with small children and competitive swimmers have been with INDOOR pools -- none of which use CYA. You will not only be using CYA which significantly lowers disinfecting chlorine concentration and the rate of production of chloramines, but you will also be using MPS which virtually eliminates the formation of these chloramines. In other words, I cannot emphasize how much safer your spa is compared to indoor pools without CYA (or MPS).

[hottub.pool_boy]

You will have some serious problems balancing your jetsetter if you think it's 350 gallons.

It's exactly 215 gallons. Here's some good info for your jetsetter water care.. http://scarritt.com/spasanitizing.htm