Contracting new pool please advise

[Guest Chantel]

We are in the begining stages of contracting a pool and to say the least at this point I am just confused. I have had 3 bids with each company recommending different equipment, in fact each company says they will only install the brand they have proposed in their bid because it is the best and they don't like dealing with other brands as they breakdown constantly...sales ploy? Anyway what I am down to is one that wants to install all Pentair equipment and another on that insists that Sta-Rite is the best. As a matter of fact the bid with Sta-Rite is coming in about 7K more then the comprable Pentair equiped bid. Then there is a third bid on the table proposing a combination of equipment including Waterway and Raypak in addition to Pentair. I have kind of decided that the guy peddling the Sta-Rite equipment is a jerk as I just don't like how he has dealt with us, almost to the point of being bullied; however, I am concerned that maybe he is right about the equipment and I will end up with an inferior pool. Following is a breakdown on the 2 other bids can someone tell me if either of these setup's are good.

Bid 1:

16 x 30 free form pool w/7' 5 jet spa and 3ft sheer descent waterfall

1.5 hp air blower for spa

425 ft2 Waterway filter (lifetime warranty)

2.0 HP Pentair WhisperFlo pump (5 yr warranty)

250,000 BTU Raypak digital heater

Aqualink RS 4 with 4 function spa side remote

Optional infloor cleanning system (A&A Manufacturing "AutoClean") +$3400 (does this price sound right?)

Optional Salt Generator (brand unknown) +$1295 (does this price sound right?)

Bid 2 (this is the one I am leaning toward):

88 perimeter ft free form pool w/7' 6 jet spa and 3ft sheer descent waterfall (this is like 33' long by 20' at it widest point and 16' at its narrowest point)

3 HP pump for spa (Does this seem large?)

420 ft2 Pentair Purex Cartridge filter (10 yr warranty)

2 HP Pentair WhisperFlo pump (5 yr warranty)

400,000 BTU Pentair MiniMax NT digital heater (5 yr warranty)

Jandy Aqualink System or Full function handheld remote (didn't get product literature for this.)

1 HP pump for waterfall

Optional infloor cleaning system (Paramount "UltraClean") +$3500 (does this price sound right?)

Forgot to ask about the Salt Generator but I am sure they would do it if I asked

Bid 3 (this is the pushy guy):

He didn't leave his bid or product literature as I told him he needed to bring his bid down. However, I know he insists on Sta-Rite for everything. Digital heater, filter that isn't a 4 cartridge type (do you know what this would be?) and pump, remember all Sta-Rite. I elected to negate about 180 ft2 of decking and shrink the pool to get it within budget and even then he said he could only get it down 3-4k. I know that the decking is something like $6/ft2 so I thought taking out the extra decking would help but appearantly not. He wants to shrink the pool from 30x18 freeform with 7' spa to something like 28x14 or 16 and negate the decking as I mentioned before. This would still make his bid 3-4k more than the other bids after taking stuff out, is his equipment really that much better?

I know this is really long but I really would appreciate any input.

[Guest jennifer]

I would make sure you get a 400,000 BTU heater. Bid #1 doesn't offer that, but the 2nd bid sounds good. Who did each of those bids?

[Guest RICH]

SOUNDS LIKE YOU ARE OVERPAYING EVERYWHERE FIRST OF ALL RESEARCH HAYWARD THIS BRAND HAS BEEN AROUND A VERY LONG TIME AND ITS WARRANTY SERVICE IS SECOND TO NONE,ALSO YOU DO NOT USSUALLY USE EQUIPTMENT WARRANTYS UNLESS THE PRODUCT IS INSTALLED WRONG OR IF YOU DO NOT TAKE CARE OF IT (IMPROPER TRAINING) THE FLOOR CLEANERS GIVE YOU THE MOST PROBLEMS GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR SEARCH SEE THEIR WORK I GIVE A CURRENT REFERENCE ONE FROM 2 YEARS AGO ONE FROM 5YEARS AGO AND I TAKE MY CLIENTS TO THEIR HOME TO SEE WHAT THE EXPERIENCE WAS LIKE CHECK THE BBB REPORT ALSO SOUNDS LIKE YOU MAY BE OVERPAYING ON THE OVERALL PROJECT

[Guest Chantel]

Thanks for the input. Jennifer, the reason one bid has a 250,000 BTU heater is because we currently have a 1" gas line pre-existing where the equipment would be. We have this 25 year old fiberglass in-ground spa that is plumbed like a pool that is going to be removed. The contractor with the smaller heater is offering to use the existing line as opposed to running a larger (1 1/2" I think) line. Bid 1 was done by Anthony & Sylvan Pools and the second was bid by Pools By Grube. I actually went in to discuss things further with Pools By Grube and ended up being really turned off...this was the bid I was leaning toward. I still don't like bid 3 because the guy is way to pushy. So, we got another bidder out here and we will have the full presentation on Wed. They are an owner-builder consultant and come highly recommended by my neighbor who also owns a landscape company and has worked with homeowners that used this company to do their pool.

Rich, I am familiar with Hayward as a matter of fact we have Hayward pumps on my inground spa. The problem is we have specifically ask about us having the choice to change equipment and the answer with every bidder was NO. They will not install different equipment then they are offering in their bid. Well except for Anthony & Sylvan but they said they would make it all Pentair.

So I have a new question, what do you think about using a owner-builder type company? We are talking to one that charges a 15% consulting fee. They actually get all the bids and subcontractors together, schedule, pull permits, etc. This really is sounding good. So any input on this kind of program would be great.

[Guest Deborah Anderson]

I am in the finishing stages of building a pool through a local builder. But there are some unresolved issues that the company service tech says are ok and I dispute these issue. We haven’t done a final walk through and I haven’t paid for it. But for instance the step were damage upon installation, there is a 1" gap between where the steps and the vinyl finishing post are.Also the concrete around the coping is jagged and crumbly. So it appears unfinished.

This in an in ground 16 x 32-inch pool. I have looked at other pools finished and these things are right on them. I am looking for some technical advise on the finishing of this project.

Please advise

[casadecampos]

I am using a magna sweep by A&A mfg in ground cleaning system. I have been very happy with it minus the time after Hurricane Wilma debris from tarpolines from other neighbors homes went into the pool.

Impossible to remove the filaments as they stick to the diamond brite and have to be removed one by one by hand. In this case the inground system does not work at all. Some vibration in the magnasweep head but usually not a problem. Just make sure pump being sized for your pool is correct. I have a maxflo and feel that a Northstar may have been a better selection. I am still in dispute with my pool builder over this, this is a 1 1/2 hp for a 14x28 pool with waterfall feature. just feel the Northstar would be better as it has bigger openings.

[DKN1997]

16 x 30 free form pool w/7' 5 jet spa and 3ft sheer descent waterfall

1.5 hp air blower for spa

425 ft2 Waterway filter (lifetime warranty)

2.0 HP Pentair WhisperFlo pump (5 yr warranty)

250,000 BTU Raypak digital heater

Aqualink RS 4 with 4 function spa side remote

Optional infloor cleanning system (A&A Manufacturing "AutoClean") +$3400 (does this price sound right?)

Optional Salt Generator (brand unknown) +$1295 (does this price sound right?)

Bid 2 (this is the one I am leaning toward):

88 perimeter ft free form pool w/7' 6 jet spa and 3ft sheer descent waterfall (this is like 33' long by 20' at it widest point and 16' at its narrowest point)

3 HP pump for spa (Does this seem large?)

420 ft2 Pentair Purex Cartridge filter (10 yr warranty)

2 HP Pentair WhisperFlo pump (5 yr warranty)

400,000 BTU Pentair MiniMax NT digital heater (5 yr warranty)

Jandy Aqualink System or Full function handheld remote (didn't get product literature for this.)

1 HP pump for waterfall

Optional infloor cleaning system (Paramount "UltraClean") +$3500 (does this price sound right?)

Forgot to ask about the Salt Generator but I am sure they would do it if I asked

Bid 3 (this is the pushy guy):

He didn't leave his bid or product literature as I told him he needed to bring his bid down. However, I know he insists on Sta-Rite for everything. Digital heater, filter that isn't a 4 cartridge type (do you know what this would be?) and pump, remember all Sta-Rite. I elected to negate about 180 ft2 of decking and shrink the pool to get it within budget and even then he said he could only get it down 3-4k. I know that the decking is something like $6/ft2 so I thought taking out the extra decking would help but appearantly not. He wants to shrink the pool from 30x18 freeform with 7' spa to something like 28x14 or 16 and negate the decking as I mentioned before. This would still make his bid 3-4k more than the other bids after taking stuff out, is his equipment really that much better?

I know this is really long but I really would appreciate any input.

quote #1. pentair pump is a dog and too big for your application (although I don't see a seperate booster pump for the spa, so maybe they are using the filter pump for a booster? also, unless you have at least 2" plumbing, that 2hp pump is a waste. simply cannot move that much water through an 1.5" pipe. 250k btu is way too small as previousely said. 400,000 minimum. Raypac heaters are pretty good. IN floor cleaning does not work, period. any pool that has an effective one would probably stay clean even if you shut the infoor cleaner off. for 3500.00, you could go with a polaris 280 w/booster pump and have them plumb some infloor efficient heat heads into the floor. you could buy these two seperate systems and probably have enough of that 3400 left over to buy the salt system. the polaris will make the pool perfect always and is easier to service in the long run. any jandy aqualink is a home run, excellent systems.

quote 2. better aqualink (called a pda, pool digital assistant) minimax heater stinks and their tech and warranty services are a pain. at least this guy is giving you a seperate pump for spa, and no 3hp not too large, but again don't let them undersize the plumbing. make sure that 3hp pump is being fed by a single 3" suction and discharge, or two 2" lines teed together. again , skip the infloor.

Here would be my list of the most desireable equipment for you.

2" rigid pvc plumbing above and below ground

Jandy Aqualink RS6 PDA'

Hayward DE4800 filter with 2" multiport

Starite dynaglass 1.5hp filter pump.

(2) 2hp starite dynaglass booster pumps for spa jets. each pump needs a 2" suction and 2" discharge. both 2" discharge lines should be looped into the same (8) waterway spa heads in spa.

Jandy Laars LT400 gas heater. This heater uses a combustion fan and is pretty efficient.

Polaris 280 cleaner w/booser pump

Efficient heat infloor cleaning heads. (you can opt for an extra jandy automatic valve so you can turn this on from inside the house with the push of the button

If you wanted, you could substitue a Jandy stealth pumps and CL580 cartridge filter for the the hayward filter and starite pumps. This would qualify you for the Jandy Proedge warranty. If you use all Jandy equipment, you automatically extend the warranties to 3 years parts/labor on every thing.

Obviousely, I like what I like, so take it with a grain of salt. but a few things that i really want you to take from this:

-Don't let them use monster pumps on undersized plumbing

-Don't undersize the heater

-Infloor systems just don't work as well as a pressure side cleaner like the polaris.

-Don't buy a pool from a pushy salesman. If his company and products were that great, he would not have to be pushy.

[Kelley]

We are in the begining stages of contracting a pool and to say the least at this point I am just confused. I have had 3 bids with each company recommending different equipment, in fact each company says they will only install the brand they have proposed in their bid because it is the best and they don't like dealing with other brands as they breakdown constantly...sales ploy? Anyway what I am down to is one that wants to install all Pentair equipment and another on that insists that Sta-Rite is the best. As a matter of fact the bid with Sta-Rite is coming in about 7K more then the comprable Pentair equiped bid. Then there is a third bid on the table proposing a combination of equipment including Waterway and Raypak in addition to Pentair. I have kind of decided that the guy peddling the Sta-Rite equipment is a jerk as I just don't like how he has dealt with us, almost to the point of being bullied; however, I am concerned that maybe he is right about the equipment and I will end up with an inferior pool. Following is a breakdown on the 2 other bids can someone tell me if either of these setup's are good.

Bid 1:

16 x 30 free form pool w/7' 5 jet spa and 3ft sheer descent waterfall

1.5 hp air blower for spa

425 ft2 Waterway filter (lifetime warranty)

2.0 HP Pentair WhisperFlo pump (5 yr warranty)

250,000 BTU Raypak digital heater

Aqualink RS 4 with 4 function spa side remote

Optional infloor cleanning system (A&A Manufacturing "AutoClean") +$3400 (does this price sound right?)

Optional Salt Generator (brand unknown) +$1295 (does this price sound right?)

Bid 2 (this is the one I am leaning toward):

88 perimeter ft free form pool w/7' 6 jet spa and 3ft sheer descent waterfall (this is like 33' long by 20' at it widest point and 16' at its narrowest point)

3 HP pump for spa (Does this seem large?)

420 ft2 Pentair Purex Cartridge filter (10 yr warranty)

2 HP Pentair WhisperFlo pump (5 yr warranty)

400,000 BTU Pentair MiniMax NT digital heater (5 yr warranty)

Jandy Aqualink System or Full function handheld remote (didn't get product literature for this.)

1 HP pump for waterfall

Optional infloor cleaning system (Paramount "UltraClean") +$3500 (does this price sound right?)

Forgot to ask about the Salt Generator but I am sure they would do it if I asked

Bid 3 (this is the pushy guy):

He didn't leave his bid or product literature as I told him he needed to bring his bid down. However, I know he insists on Sta-Rite for everything. Digital heater, filter that isn't a 4 cartridge type (do you know what this would be?) and pump, remember all Sta-Rite. I elected to negate about 180 ft2 of decking and shrink the pool to get it within budget and even then he said he could only get it down 3-4k. I know that the decking is something like $6/ft2 so I thought taking out the extra decking would help but appearantly not. He wants to shrink the pool from 30x18 freeform with 7' spa to something like 28x14 or 16 and negate the decking as I mentioned before. This would still make his bid 3-4k more than the other bids after taking stuff out, is his equipment really that much better?

I know this is really long but I really would appreciate any input.

Chantel,

Are you in Georgetown??

More importantly what are the names of the companies. A good contractor will have references. Email me at tkokelley100@yahoo.com if you want a good contractor.

[Mark]

We are in the begining stages of contracting a pool and to say the least at this point I am just confused. I have had 3 bids with each company recommending different equipment, in fact each company says they will only install the brand they have proposed in their bid because it is the best and they don't like dealing with other brands as they breakdown constantly...sales ploy? Anyway what I am down to is one that wants to install all Pentair equipment and another on that insists that Sta-Rite is the best. As a matter of fact the bid with Sta-Rite is coming in about 7K more then the comprable Pentair equiped bid. Then there is a third bid on the table proposing a combination of equipment including Waterway and Raypak in addition to Pentair. I have kind of decided that the guy peddling the Sta-Rite equipment is a jerk as I just don't like how he has dealt with us, almost to the point of being bullied; however, I am concerned that maybe he is right about the equipment and I will end up with an inferior pool. Following is a breakdown on the 2 other bids can someone tell me if either of these setup's are good.

Bid 1:

16 x 30 free form pool w/7' 5 jet spa and 3ft sheer descent waterfall

1.5 hp air blower for spa

425 ft2 Waterway filter (lifetime warranty)

2.0 HP Pentair WhisperFlo pump (5 yr warranty)

250,000 BTU Raypak digital heater

Aqualink RS 4 with 4 function spa side remote

Optional infloor cleanning system (A&A Manufacturing "AutoClean") +$3400 (does this price sound right?)

Optional Salt Generator (brand unknown) +$1295 (does this price sound right?)

Bid 2 (this is the one I am leaning toward):

88 perimeter ft free form pool w/7' 6 jet spa and 3ft sheer descent waterfall (this is like 33' long by 20' at it widest point and 16' at its narrowest point)

3 HP pump for spa (Does this seem large?)

420 ft2 Pentair Purex Cartridge filter (10 yr warranty)

2 HP Pentair WhisperFlo pump (5 yr warranty)

400,000 BTU Pentair MiniMax NT digital heater (5 yr warranty)

Jandy Aqualink System or Full function handheld remote (didn't get product literature for this.)

1 HP pump for waterfall

Optional infloor cleaning system (Paramount "UltraClean") +$3500 (does this price sound right?)

Forgot to ask about the Salt Generator but I am sure they would do it if I asked

Bid 3 (this is the pushy guy):

He didn't leave his bid or product literature as I told him he needed to bring his bid down. However, I know he insists on Sta-Rite for everything. Digital heater, filter that isn't a 4 cartridge type (do you know what this would be?) and pump, remember all Sta-Rite. I elected to negate about 180 ft2 of decking and shrink the pool to get it within budget and even then he said he could only get it down 3-4k. I know that the decking is something like $6/ft2 so I thought taking out the extra decking would help but appearantly not. He wants to shrink the pool from 30x18 freeform with 7' spa to something like 28x14 or 16 and negate the decking as I mentioned before. This would still make his bid 3-4k more than the other bids after taking stuff out, is his equipment really that much better?

I know this is really long but I really would appreciate any input.

Bid1:

Minimum 400k heater

If one pump then I would go with dual speed otherwise to will have very high electric bill.

RS4 is somewhat limited for future expansion (landscape lights, second pump, etc), I would go with at least an RS6.

Bid2:

3HP pump for spa will remove the skin off your back.

Again 2HP is way too big for just circulation. Either go 2-speed or lower to 1/2 HP.

Too many times, pool builders put in pumps that are too big because they think that they will get the job that way. Generally for circulation on a 15,000 gallon pool, only 1/2 HP is needed to have an 8 hr turnover. If you want to run the spa on the same pump, then a 2 HP 2-speed is the way to go.

Remember that new pumps have service factors much greater than 1 so they will actually be opperation at a much higher HP. For example, the wisperflow has a SF of 1.6 so the actual HP of a 2 HP label is 3.2. This is about 3.2 KW/Hr and way overkill for just circulation.

One thing to do is have each builder do a head calc and determine flow rates and turnover. If they do not know how to do this, you can be assured that they will get it wrong.

Also, don't waste your money on a in-floor cleaner. I would get a robotic cleaner (e.g. Dolphin) which will do a much better job. In-floors just blow the dirt around while a robotic will not only clean all of the surfaces but also filter your water requiring less filter time.

Hope this helps,

Mark

[desore]

Check out this pool buying guide out

swimming pool guide

i'm sure it will help