Hot Spring Envoy Vs. Vista

[flint350]

I've been reading this very useful forum and searching in my effort to finalize a purchase. The local dealers I've considered are Hot Spring, Sundance and D1. I have narrowed it down to just the Hot Spring choices for various reasons and am now trying to decide - haven't wet tested yet - between the Envoy and Vista. Pricing on these forums is all over the map, so I can only compare what I've been given locally from 2 Hot Spring dealers. The lowest cost dealer is several hundred lower for the same items. His price is new Envoy at $9595 and Vista at $10,395 delivered. So, before wet testing, I'm curious if anyone can share their opinion on these 2 tubs and the $800 difference. I realize wet testing will tell a lot and may even eliminate them both if the lounge proves unfriendly (I'm 6'1" and 210), though I like the lounge idea. I'm mostly a solo user and for mostly therapeutic work on my neck and back, though relaxation and general enjoyment will naturally be a part. I don't really anticipate groups of people, but I just feel like the Jetsetter is too confining and the Sovereign is not much cheaper and has only 1 pump. That has led me to my 2 choices. I'm leaning toward the Envoy for the seat arrangement, but the Vista is also appealing.

I am definitely going to wet test, but would really appreciate any insight from those here who know these tubs. I've read helpful posts by many, including Jerimiah, Peteyboy, Roger and others about the Hot Spring tubs and I hope one or more or anyone with knowledge can chime in with insight. I know you can't make a choice for me, but your posts have been useful and you may have guidance I have overlooked. I realize the prices may seem high, but that appears to be as good as it gets in this area with only 2 dealers within reach. Thanks for any help.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

His price is new Envoy at $9595 and Vista at $10,395 delivered. So, before wet testing, I'm curious if anyone can share their opinion on these 2 tubs and the $800 difference. I realize wet testing will tell a lot and may even eliminate them both if the lounge proves unfriendly (I'm 6'1" and 210), though I like the lounge idea. I'm mostly a solo user and for mostly therapeutic work on my neck and back, though relaxation and general enjoyment will naturally be a part.

1) What does that price include? Steps, lifter, chems, etc.?

2) Typically I like to use the logic that you'll own this spa for 10, 12, ... years so think of the extra $800 spread over time and it'll seem more palatable. However, in your case even the smaller one is pretty big and being that you will be mostly using it yourself I'd personally go into the wet test with the thought that unless the bigger one shows itself to clearly be the better choice for you I'd lean toward the smaller one in a tiebreaker and go to Vegas with the difference!

[Nalod]

I had a Grandee for 4 years and sold it with the house. I was ready to buy an Envoy but really did not like the seating angles, but its a fine tub and hot springs is great.

I intially liked the sundance tub back then but did not like the dealer and was sold on HOtSprings wonderful build quality.

That Dealer is gone, and the one that has hotsprings also has sundance and this time we went to that and tested both. The Sundance with its bubbles and jet placement just felt better.

I did not want as big a tub this time. I was also considering the Sovereign. Nice tub. Figure if your gonna spend 7k why not 8500 and get what you really want.

If your sold on HS, and you can't go wrong there, then just wet test both and you'll figure it out. Logic is one thing and build quality is a priority but after than its how you feel.

[kimpur]

oops......scuse me.

[kimpur]

His price is new Envoy at $9595 and Vista at $10,395 delivered. So, before wet testing, I'm curious if anyone can share their opinion on these 2 tubs and the $800 difference. I realize wet testing will tell a lot and may even eliminate them both if the lounge proves unfriendly (I'm 6'1" and 210), though I like the lounge idea. I'm mostly a solo user and for mostly therapeutic work on my neck and back, though relaxation and general enjoyment will naturally be a part.

1) What does that price include? Steps, lifter, chems, etc.?

2) Typically I like to use the logic that you'll own this spa for 10, 12, ... years so think of the extra $800 spread over time and it'll seem more palatable. However, in your case even the smaller one is pretty big and being that you will be mostly using it yourself I'd personally go into the wet test with the thought that unless the bigger one shows itself to clearly be the better choice for you I'd lean toward the smaller one in a tiebreaker and go to Vegas with the difference!

We bought our Vista last November and were looking at the same two - the Envoy or the Vista. As Spatech says, we made our decision based on spreading that cost difference over the probable years we'll have the tub, and said heck yeah, we'll take the Vista - may be one of those once-in-a-lifetime purchases, ya know? So grab all the gusto! Anyway, we are very pleased with our choice. But as I have stated before in some other posts - think and then rethink on the lounger. My sweetie loves it, as he is over 6'. But I still like the openness of the Grandee - with the 4 corner seats, there wouldn't be a bad view/seat in the tub, plus you get the 2 moto-massages! The lounger limits that somewhat.

[hottubdan]

How tall are you? I think you will find the length of the lounge might make all the difference.

[flint350]

My question about the $800 was only meant as a "what do you really get for the money" kind of thing. I'm not concerned about the difference at this price point and would spend the extra. I was only wondering if there was any real value for it in my situation (mostly solo user). As I said in the original post, I'm 6'1" and 210. Not overly tall, but if the lounge in the Vista is longer than the Envoy, that may be worthwhile. I understand that many say they buy a lounge the 1st time, but never on the 2nd. I also realize I need to wet test to see how I fit the lounges. I foresee myself using the lounge to stretch out and get my neck and back relaxed. I may be wrong and the corner therapy seats may be better. But being mostly alone, I can always change to whichever seat I like. It's that reason that I wanted the lounge. I felt like if I have it and end up not using it, I still have the other seats. If I don't have it and find out I could have benefited from it, I might regret it. So, it's just a choice between models and whether there's any value in the slightly more expensive Vista for a solo user, like features I'm not accounting for, other than a bit more space, which I don't really need. Thanks to all.

[Raeven]

Hi, flint,

I am in much the same situation as you, meaning a solo user most of the time, and I own an Envoy which I was fortunate enough to have found used on craigslist. My 2005 Envoy does not differ in any significant way from a new unit, so I feel comfortable to comment on your situation.

Personally, I love my Envoy -- but I never tried out a Vista, so I don't have that experience for comparison. I don't think the price difference you're looking at is much of a factor... as others have pointed out, amortized over a period of years, it becomes negligible.

I do love the lounge seat in the Envoy. I'm 5'9" and it's really comfortable. It's a good fit for me. After starting in the lounge, I move from seat to seat over the course of a soak and let the jets pummel every aching part of the old bod. If you turn the jet controls so that all the foot jets are running, you can sit down in the bottom of the spa and let the foot jets work on your calves, hips and rear all at the same time. By the time I'm done in the spa, there isn't any body part that hasn't received the benefit of a good water massage!

Really, once you wet test, you'll know. Can't stress the importance of that enough. I nearly purchased 2 different units new before wet testing... after, I knew they weren't for me. I also wet-tested the used Envoy -- and I knew immediately I'd found my spa. Maybe if I'd been buying new and had tried out the Vista as well, I'd have purchased that... but as an Envoy owner, I can tell you I'm very, very happy with this spa.

Best of luck to you in your quest! - Rae

[kimpur]

Yessss......for solo usage, I do see your point. You'd have the best of everything with the lounger!

[Nalod]

Yessss......for solo usage, I do see your point. You'd have the best of everything with the lounger!

Really perfectly logical, if mostly solo then get the lounger. Half the fun of a big tub is swimming around and getting all the messages.

[flint350]

EDIT - It's now Aria (2007 anniversary model) vs. Vista

Thanks Rae for your report, and Kimpur and Nalod also.

Things got even more complicated today. I went into the store to arrange the wet test and to sit in the empty units that I was interested in just to see what it would tell me. Well, while I'm there, they show me a brand new 2007 30th anniversary Aria, with one-touch hydraulic cover lift, chemicals, steps, ozone, built-in stereo/cd with pop up speakers for $9500 delivered. Now, I'm not looking for the stereo add-on in any tub, but it is already built in on this Aria. It's a little smaller overall, but has the lounge with calf jets and the captain's seat. So, it has everything I need plus more and at (from what I know) a good price, considering everything. They are willing to fill both the Vista (which is a new 2008 @$10395) and the Aria. The Envoy is already filled, but they don't have any stock and will only order a new one at a much higher price. So, price wise I'm now looking at the Vista and the left over 2007 Aria (phase 1 - have to look that up).

I'm at the point of getting the electrician in to be sure of the power availability and setting up a patio contractor, since I need to put the tub under my deck overhang where it is pea gravel now. I plan on getting a patio made for it. In the meantime, I need to decide on which tub. I sat in both the Aria and Vista dry and the lounges fit somewhat differently, with the Vista longer. Of course, I'm sure it will be even more different when filled. The Aria sounds like a good deal, though the Vista is a bit larger, newer and only a reasonable amount more $$$. So the quest continues and now the Aria is added, for those who might have info on that (especially the 30th anniversary model). Decisions, decisions. Thanks to all for your input so far. I will be acting soon, but I hope to hear some more opinions or guidance about these models before I schedule the wet test.

EDIT - I forgot to ask - should the fact that the Aria has been on the floor for 2 years unfilled and unused factor into my thinking negatively? I don't know what could deteriorate, but I am new at this stuff. Thanks again.

[Peteyboy]

You will get much more spa with the Vista. To me the Aria is just too small for the price. IMO that price is high for a spa that is 2 years old.

I would make sure you get the full warranty for the Aria - get it writing. I've never heard of a dealer that kept a new spa that long. I'm very skeptical.

The Aria didn't go to phase 2 until 2009. This gave it a plastic structure and base. The Aria and Vanguard are the only ones in that plastic structure right now.

I don't think the 30th anniversary changed the spa at all.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

You will get much more spa with the Vista. To me the Aria is just too small for the price. IMO that price is high for a spa that is 2 years old.

I would make sure you get the full warranty for the Aria - get it writing. I've never heard of a dealer that kept a new spa that long. I'm very skeptical.

The Aria didn't go to phase 2 until 2009. This gave it a plastic structure and base. The Aria and Vanguard are the only ones in that plastic structure right now.

I don't think the 30th anniversary changed the spa at all.

Based on postings I've seen here it really isn't as uncommon as i'd previously expected for dealers to still have a 2007 new around but i'd go for the Vista also because you've pretty much stated the stereo isn't a big deal for you but thats a big part of what makes that spa the price it is.

[flint350]

Excellent info and thanks. I'm likely going Vista depending on the wet fit. In the guy's defense, he flatly said the warranty would be full and covered by the dealer (in writing) since it was losing a year of the manufacturer's warranty. The salesman was very good and really knew his stuff and made me feel comfortable with the dealership. There was no pressure, lots of help and good answers (assuming I asked good questions!). He showed me the Aria at the end as a potential consideration and was very open about it being 2 years old (though still new/unused) and wanted me to have all options. I think his not having an Envoy except as a tester factored in. His price on ordering a new Envoy was full price, no sale. The Vista, Sovereign and Aria are on sale. I plan to test the Envoy and the Vista for sure and only test the Aria if the other two are lacking somehow - he would have to move it and fill it in a special location to wet test. Given that I can have the Vista (2008 clearance) for less than ordering a new 2009 Envoy, that may help my decision, unless the Envoy is just perfect. Then I may eat the cost if I have to.

[flint350]

Maybe I should ask this elsewhere or a new thread, but I am limited to where I can put the new tub due to sloping back yard with heavy wooded area, etc. I am planning on putting it in a recessed area under my deck. I will have the area paved as a patio for support and some seating. Since the underside tends to attract spiders and other bugs, I want to enclose the area with screening and an entry door on the left side just to the right of the slider doors, as you face them here. In the photos below, you can see 3 views. The plan is to pave where the pea gravel is and place the tub in the recess which measures 12.6 ft. wide at the back (window area) and is about 10.6 ft deep from the rear posts to the front 2 posts which are about 9.6 ft apart on the inside dimension. I may cover/decorate the 4 posts which will effectively surround the tub area. The current idea is to exit the house at the sliders and step a couple of feet to a doorway in the screen area that enters the tub area. I'm a little uneasy about potential problems putting the tub under the deck in front of the window, but don't have many other good options. The deck above is not suitable. The tub will be out of the sun, but also in a heavily shaded area - gloomy? It would be close access to the house though. Any input on placement issues also welcome.

Hopefully, here are 3 photos to give you an idea. I'm having a paving contractor out on Monday for an estimate using either patio pavers or stamped concrete sufficient to support the weight.

With measurements:

[Nalod]

My tub is also going under a patio in a walkout area off a basement.

What I did was make sure the tub is as close to the edge so its not tucked far underneath and you can look up. Also I had my ceiling finished with inexpensive but washable white vinyl material with (to code) recessed lighting. The lights need a set distance from the tub. I am putting a plastic shower type lens on mine in addition.

THere are some easy under deck products to put as a ceiling and keep water from dripping.

With the paving if done up to the house it should be cleaner with less bugs. I don't know what part of the country your and if screening is really necessary. I am considering it but I can use a fan to keep buggs moving if it gets bad only in the summer months. With a solid patio base, and perhaps a finished ceiling where spiders can't do thier thing you could very well have a less buggy area. It will also keep it drier!!! Spray the corners to keep them bugs at bay too! A finished lower patio will also increase the value and look of the back yard.

Make sure you can get in and hose/sweep around the tub. With plants, maybe some outdoor mirror type hangings the area won't be so gloomy. I wired some outdoor speakers on the posts. You may want to paint the posts and perhaps do a bit of landscaping to soften the area. All low cost tings to really make that space nice.

Its a nice space and you'll have good use for it now.

[flint350]

My tub is also going under a patio in a walkout area off a basement.

What I did was make sure the tub is as close to the edge so its not tucked far underneath and you can look up. Also I had my ceiling finished with inexpensive but washable white vinyl material with (to code) recessed lighting. The lights need a set distance from the tub. I am putting a plastic shower type lens on mine in addition.

THere are some easy under deck products to put as a ceiling and keep water from dripping.

With the paving if done up to the house it should be cleaner with less bugs. I don't know what part of the country your and if screening is really necessary. I am considering it but I can use a fan to keep buggs moving if it gets bad only in the summer months. With a solid patio base, and perhaps a finished ceiling where spiders can't do thier thing you could very well have a less buggy area. It will also keep it drier!!! Spray the corners to keep them bugs at bay too! A finished lower patio will also increase the value and look of the back yard.

Make sure you can get in and hose/sweep around the tub. With plants, maybe some outdoor mirror type hangings the area won't be so gloomy. I wired some outdoor speakers on the posts. You may want to paint the posts and perhaps do a bit of landscaping to soften the area. All low cost tings to really make that space nice.

Its a nice space and you'll have good use for it now.

Thanks Nalod. Those are good ideas and considerations. I'm in Maryland and near the water, so the mosquitoes and biting gnats can get a bit troublesome in summer. I am looking at a system like Dek Drain for the underside to keep water out and am still thinking about the screening for the bugs. I may wait though, since it will be cold by the time this project is finished and the bugs won't be an issue until next Spring. I may decide on a screen at that time.

All I have to do now is figure out if I want an Envoy or an Aria and whether the pricing I'm getting is good. Seems like the dealers/manufacturers are very territorial to protect their pricing, so they have you at a disadvantage. I also wish I knew where to find reliable reviews on dealers - one post in this forum mentioned shopping dealers in my area and stating a couple had very bad service while one was very good, but there was no info on how that was discovered and who was who. So far my searching has proved futile on that and the original poster has since stopped posting so I can't ask directly. Oh well, thanks again.