Magna_Mike Posted May 26, 2008 Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 I have a 15x4 intex metal frame and set it up on a level, but slopping, sand foundation. I laid out the sand and leveled it out making sure to slope it about an inch or so in one direction where I wanted the drain to be for easier draining. I filled her up and everything was level, the leg poles were straight, everything was nice.... about 3/4 of the way filled I noticed it was leaning. All the legs were leaning, the liner was bulging on the side it was leaning towards, I was freaked out. I straightened out the legs as best as I could on the sides and on the side that it was leaning towards, but could not straighten the legs on the side that it was leaning from.... the top of the pool was leaning too far over the bulge of the liner for me to straighten these legs. I went ahead and finished filling the pool, and let her sit for a few days. it settled and two of the legs sank into the ground about 3 inches farther than the others. This caused the liner to lean and bulge on that one side. I put a tarp over the sand before i put the pool up, and I needed to mow around the pool, so i flipped the edges of the tarp up around the bottom of the pool to mow and got a nasty smell. My house if on sewer, but I am thinking that I might have possibly put my pool on the site of my old septic system. But I would think that the system would be empty after not being used for the past 15+ years since the house was put on sewer.... I have no clue.... any ideas? Second issue... Chemicals... I read through some of the threads here about chemicals and see that some folks are able to balance their pools easily and just maintain from there. I would love to be able to do that so i can keep costs down.... I have been trying to use the "AquaChem 6-way strips" from Wally-World. I cant seem to figure these things out. I get a 10 oz sample of water from elbow depth and dip the strip into the sample and count 15 then compare to the chart on the back of the bottle as the directions say to do. But the colors on the strips continue to change colors.... I try to get a reading at exactly 15 seconds and write them down. Today I tested twice from two different samples and got different results. The second test game me the following results: Hardness: the color was in between B and C so i will guess the ppm is between 100 and 250 Total Chlorine: Color was darker than D, so the ppm would be above 10 Free Chlorine/Bromine: Color was darker than D, so the ppm would be above 10 for Free Chlorine and 20 for Bromine pH: color between B and C making it between 7.2 and 7.8 Alkalinity: color between B and C making ppm between 40 and 120 (supposed to be around 180ppm) Stabilizer: Color was lighter than A meaning that I have less than 0 ppm of Stabilizer in the pool. Chemicals I am using: 1inch Stabilized Tablets in a floater (guess I need to adjust the floater to put in less), Shock Plus (half a pound a week), Algaecide Plus 2oz a week. Have added other stuff but not as maintanance, just as treatment to raise or lower levels according to the "Free Online Water Test analysis" on AuquaChems site. The Testing Analysis to me seems flawed because it only accepts exact color input, meaning you must select one single color, not an inbetween color, so according to the chart, for pH if the color is closer to C (7.8) I have to select it, and it wants me to add pH Decreaser. I go back and change it from C to B (7.2) it then changes the results for everything else... Do any of you use and rely on these strips? What is the testing method of choice? Any info or direction would be appreciated. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoolTech Posted May 27, 2008 Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 Magna_Mike- I am Alyssa, a technician with Aquachem, judging from the information above, combined with dimensions and volume information from Intex, the pool holds approximately 4,440 gallons. For regular maintenance, the Shock Plus dose should be about 6oz. and 4-5 1” tablets can be used in the floater. When the free chlorine level is reading above 3ppm, that indicates that there is too much chlorine in the water. When there is too much chlorine in the water, testing methods, whether strips or a kit with drops, can be bleached out and give inaccurate results. When the chlorine reads high, please do not adjust any of the levels until the chlorine comes down to at least 3. When the chlorine is no higher than 3 we know we are getting accurate results. If you have further questions about testing, or would like assistance with testing, please do not hesitate to email or call us. We are available to take your call Monday through Friday from 8 AM to 8 PM and Saturday 9 AM to 6 PM Eastern time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magna_Mike Posted May 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 How long do i leave the floater with the 5-6 1" tabs in the pool? How long should I run the filter with skimmer? Still waiting for the chlorine levels to come down.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoolTech Posted May 29, 2008 Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 Hi Mike - What is your chlorine level now? The key is to get your chlorine level to somewhere between 1 and 3 ppm. You should add more tabs as needed and if it is above that, take the tabs out of the pool until it gets down to the proper level. Is your chlorine much higher than that right now? We always recommend running your pump and filter 8-12 hours per day to ensure that the water is completely turned over a couple times per day. thanks, alyssa How long do i leave the floater with the 5-6 1" tabs in the pool? How long should I run the filter with skimmer? Still waiting for the chlorine levels to come down.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magna_Mike Posted May 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 As of 05.28 the results were: Total Chlorine: D+ (higher than 10ppm) Free Chlorine: D+ (higher than 10ppm {pools}) Bromine: D+ (higher than 20ppm {tablets}) I will test it again in the morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magna_Mike Posted May 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Even though the Chlorine is showing high, there isnt a strong smell, only a slight smell when my nose is close to the surface of the water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoolTech Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Mike - No strong smell is a good sign! The strong chlorine smell that you often smell is not actually from the chlorine itself but from chloramines which are formed when you have a large amount of contaminants in the water and your free chlorine combines with the nitrogen in the contaminants. Chloramines do not sanitize your water and can actually inactivate your free chlorine. Your water should never have a strong chlorine smell even when your free chlorine level is high. I would make sure that your floater is out of the pool and I would run your filter for at least 12 hours. Another option would be to drain a couple inches of water off the pool and refill it with fresh water. This would dilute the high chlorine. Do not add anything else until you get the chlorine level down including Shock which is another form of Chlorine. Do not worry about the other readings until you get the get the chlorine down. Very high chlorine levels can cause inaccurate readings on other balancing parameters. I do have staff answering calls on Saturday so if you have any questions over the weekend, you can call us 800-252-7665 from 9am to 6pm est. If not, feel free to post again and I will check on Monday morning. Thanks Alyssa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magna_Mike Posted June 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 Todays Readings are: 05.31.08 Total Hardness 175-225ppm B(100ppm area) Total Chlorine 1-3ppm C (a dark c, very light D probably close to 5-6ppm) Free Chlorine 1-3ppm C (a dark c, very light D probably close to 5-6ppm) Bromine 2-4ppm Tablets C (a dark c, very light D probably close to 10-12ppm) pH 7.2-7.6 B (a light B probably around 7.0) Total Alkalinity 175-225ppm B (a light B probably around 25ppm) Stabilizer at least 30ppm B (a light B probably around 40ppm) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoolTech Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 Mike Sounds like everything is moving in the right direction. Give it one more day for the chlorine to continue coming down and then test it again. Send me the results again and then we will take a look at the rest of your balancing parameters which honestly, seem to be pretty close to where we want them. We may need to adjust the pH or Alkalinity a little but let's get the chlorine down between 1 and 3 and then we can balance the other parameters. Thanks Alyssa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magna_Mike Posted June 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 ok, here are todays test results: 06.02.08.......................................Results Total Hardness 175-225ppm...............B Total Chlorine 1-3ppm.......................C+ Free Chlorine 1-3ppm........................C- Bromine 2-4ppm...............................C- pH 7.2-7.6........................................B+ Total Alkalinity 175-225ppm...............C- Stabilizer at least 30ppm....................B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoolTech Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 Mike, Going by the parameters you just gave me, it appears that your pool water is pretty well balanced but your chlorine is still slightly high but coming down to where it should be. Test it one more day and if everything seems balanced tomorrow and the chlorine is where it should be, you can probably start swimming and I will suggest a weekly maintainance plan for you. alyssa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magna_Mike Posted June 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 06.03.08...............................Target......Results...Ok.....Low Total Hardness 175-225ppm....B+/C-........B..........X Total Chlorine 1-3ppm............B/C............B..........X Free Chlorine 1-3ppm.............B+.............B..................X Bromine 2-4ppm....................B+.............B..................X pH 7.2-7.6..............................B+............B-.................X Total Alkalinity 175-225ppm.....D/D+........C-.................X Stabilizer at least 30ppm..........B/C...........B.........X It looks like it is time for me to start putting the 1" Stabilized tablets back into the pool via floater. You said to put 5-6 tablets in the floater at a time. How long do I leave the floater in the pool at any given time? I intend on running the pump/filter 8-12 hours a day/night when I can (I have it set up on an automatic shut off timer. I manually turn it on, and set the timer to however long I want it to run, and am trying to run it at night instead of during the day). From the looks of my results, I am guessing that other than the Chlorine, I also need to add a little pH, guessing the actual number it is at is a high 6.x, the Hardness needs to be raised from the 100ppm to at least 175ppm, and the Alkalinity needs raised from the 80ppm it is sitting at to at least 175ppm as well. I did add 4 ounces of Algaecide Plus yesterday with the pump/filter running because there is an algae growing on the bottom, I left it alone and will vacuum it out tomorrow. other than that, I have not added anything to the pool since I started with the high chlorine levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magna_Mike Posted June 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 PoolTech, you forget about me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meezy Posted June 7, 2008 Report Share Posted June 7, 2008 About the septic... A septic tank would not just empty itself over time. If it was full, or partially full (and totally full is their normal state of functioning) then chances are it is still full 15 years later. If I stopped using our septic system (and believe me, I would LOVE to stop using it and connect to city sewer instead) I would not just leave it as is - I would have it pumped and filled in. If the lines leading to the system are compromised - cracked, etc. or if the lid to the septic is cracked (it happens, in fact we just had to fix ours) then rainwater could be getting into that tank and making it overflow. And chances are after 15 years your leach lines aren't good, so consequently you're getting sewage sludge bubbling up. Yuck. Since you obviously want to use that part of your property, I highly recommend - if only for your peace of mind - having a septic maintenance co. come out and locate the tank, pump it, fill it in and seal it off properly. I also highly recommend ditching the test strips and buying a full test kit with tubes and chemical droppers. They don't cost that much and the results are much more accurate and easier to interpret. I am a newbie to having my own aboveground pool, but I grew up with one and we had a hot tub for several years that I maintained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magna_Mike Posted June 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 Todays Testing: 06.08.08..................................Target....Results....Ok...Low Total Hardness 175-225ppm.......B+/C-......B...................X Total Chlorine 1-3ppm...............B/C..........-B.................X Free Chlorine 1-3ppm................B+...........-B..................X Bromine 2-4ppm.......................B+...........-B..................X pH 7.2-7.6................................B+...........-B..................X Total Alkalinity 175-225ppm.......D/D+.......-C..................X Stabilizer at least 30ppm...........B/C..........B..........X So guessing, I need to add a couple more Chlorine tabs, Up my Hardness, Up my pH, and Up my Alkalinity? How much of what do I need to add? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoolTech Posted June 9, 2008 Report Share Posted June 9, 2008 Hi Mike, I would increase your Total Alkalinity, then your pH and then the hardness in THAT order...then I would put some 3 inch tabs in your floater and then test the chlorine again. I would follow the instructions on the labels depending upon how much you need to increase at that time. This is from a day ago so I don't want to give you amounts for today. If you want to test and then call in, you can ask for Alyssa or Katie thanks alyssa 06.08.08..................................Target....Results....Ok...Low Total Hardness 175-225ppm.......B+/C-......B...................X Total Chlorine 1-3ppm...............B/C..........-B.................X Free Chlorine 1-3ppm................B+...........-B..................X Bromine 2-4ppm.......................B+...........-B..................X pH 7.2-7.6................................B+...........-B..................X Total Alkalinity 175-225ppm.......D/D+.......-C..................X Stabilizer at least 30ppm...........B/C..........B..........X So guessing, I need to add a couple more Chlorine tabs, Up my Hardness, Up my pH, and Up my Alkalinity? How much of what do I need to add? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chem geek Posted June 9, 2008 Report Share Posted June 9, 2008 Mike, Do yourself a favor and get your own good test kit, either the Taylor K-2006 you can get at a good online price here or the TF100 test kit from tftestkits.com here with the latter test having 36% more volume of reagents so is comparably priced "per test". Take charge of your own water. Pool care management is much easier when you don't have to go back and forth to the pool store every time you want to know what's in your water and besides, many pool store tests are done incorrectly (ironic, since the home test is usually much easier where you just "count the drops" to get the result). [EDIT] Also, test strips are often not accurate and harder to read correctly -- it's usually harder to match colors than it is to count drops. By the way, the test kits I linked to use a FAS-DPD type of chlorine test where you "count the drops" to determine chlorine levels accurately to within 0.2 or 0.5 ppm depending on sample size and, unlike test strips and the more common DPD chlorine test, the FAS-DPD test will not bleach out readily and can test up to 50 ppm FC so is very useful for testing chlorine levels during shocking if that ever becomes necessary. [END-EDIT] The test results you are getting are insane -- they don't even tell you the actual numbers (i.e. "Low") and the ranges are ridiculous! A Total Alkalinity (TA) of 175-225 is generally too high, though isn't as bad when using Trichlor tabs/pucks. The Total Hardness is irrelevant since it is the Calcium Hardness (CH) that matters -- and their range of Total Hardness of 175-225 is generally too low (Calcium Hardness in such water is probably around 110-140, but this varies depending on water source). Though the water balance of these ranges is technically correct, the high TA / low CH combination may result in a tendency for the pH to rise over time unless Trichlor is used as the sole source of chlorine. However, if Trichlor is used, then Cyanuric Acid (CYA) can build up over time and their 1-3 ppm Free Chlorine (FC) will be insufficient when the CYA climbs over time. Your pool will become at great risk of developing algae unless you keep the FC at a minimum of 7.5% of the CYA level or unless you use a supplemental algaecide (weekly PolyQuat 60 or a phosphate remover) or otherwise periodically drain/refill or backwash to dilute the CYA to prevent it from building up. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoolTech Posted June 9, 2008 Report Share Posted June 9, 2008 Mike, Pool balancing parameters vary depending upon many different variables. Pool type, finish, use etc. Based on all the information you have provided to us for your particular pool, you are very much on the right track to having sparkling clean water for the summer. If you would like some suggestions on other methods of testing your water or to confirm what you have seen so far, please feel free to call me at 800-252-7665 and ask for Alyssa or Katie. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chem geek Posted June 9, 2008 Report Share Posted June 9, 2008 PoolTech(Alyssa) and MagmaMike, AquaChem sells pool chemicals as well as test strips (and is owned by BioLab which is owned by Chemtura). Test Strips only test for Total Hardness, and not Calcium Hardness. For a vinyl pool, this isn't important anyway as the water does not need to be saturated with calcium carbonate as with plaster/gunite pools. Nevertheless, even on the AquaChem website here the ideal ranges for Total Alkalinity (TA) are different than the recommended range of 175-225 posted by MagnaMike. Also, I've looked at the AquaChem website and see nothing about the following chemical facts: For every 10 ppm Free Chlorine (FC) added by Trichlor, it will also increase Cyanuric Acid (CYA) by 6 ppm. For every 10 ppm FC added by Dichlor, it will also increase CYA by 9 ppm. The 1" Stabilized Tablets sold on your site appear to be Trichlor while the Shock Plus appears to be Dichlor. I see nothing on the website saying that the disinfecting chlorine level (hypochlorous acid), which is what kills algae (and bacteria), is proportional to the FC/CYA ratio so that as the CYA increases from use of the above products one needs to maintain a higher FC level to prevent algae growth. Alternatively, if one doesn't want to worry about their CYA level [EDIT] (or have a higher FC) [EDIT], then one can use an algaecide. Why aren't you telling Mike about these facts? He said he wants to keep his costs down, so why aren't you telling him about the alternative of using chlorinating liquid or unscented bleach in The Liquidator for automatic dosing (talked about more in this thread)? That way, he won't need to keep adding either pH Add or Alkalinity Up products nor use an alagecide. Also, why don't you tell him that the ingredient in pH Add is identical to that in Arm & Hammer Super Washing Soda or that the ingredient in Alkalinity Up is identical to that in Arm & Hammer Baking Soda so that he can comparison shop and choose whether or not to use your products at a premium because the advice you are giving him is worth it to him? Also, Mike asked about how much to dose so he can use The Pool Calculator to figure that out. These pool and spa forums are primarily for pool and spa owners and though it is fine for dealers and manufacturers/distributors to post, it is important to be fully forthcoming with all the relevant facts. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoolTech Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 Mike, If you need anything else, please call our technical solutions department at 800-252-7665. We are here to assist from 8-8 m-f and 9-6 on saturdays. Alyssa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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