AJaySummer

You can feel free to ignore my above questions. A brief search on the topic sent me to a post you wrote in 2021 (3 step bromine guide) that essentially answered all the above already. You even mentioned borate and that chlorine spas basically require daily attention whereas bromine spas are much more forgiving. Which explains why we are having so many issues maintaining our current chlorine spa. So it sounds like switching to bromine is definitely in our best interest given our relative inability to perform daily maintenance on our chlorine spa. The only question I have now is if I can simply switch to bromine now using your guide (establish a bromine reserve, etc) or if I have to wait a bit for my chlorine level to come down? I would assume we can just go ahead and establish the bromine reserve now since the current chorine level will only help sanitize while this is established, or would having a current chlorine level interfere with the first step and jump us to the "shocking" step before we are ready? Again, thank you for your advice and I apologize for taking up so much of your time over the last few days. You have been most helpful and you are greatly appreciated.

It was not my intention to be difficult and I am surely not taking your wisdom or advice for granted. I apologize if I came off that way. I do NOT want to continue to use Trichlor, but I do need to find a happy medium with maintaining a safe/clean spa and our busy lifestyle. I assumed I couldn't be the only spa owner who takes vacations or is too busy to show daily love to their spa, so I also assumed there was some happy medium out there for cases like mine. Especially in the middle of winter in Michigan it is literally hazardous to stand out in negative temps testing water every day (yet another excuse I guess). I leave for work before daylight and come back after dark. I spend my days in a hospital caring for my community and I guess I was hoping for some non-judgemental help in maintaining something that is therapeutic for my body, but also entertains my children. The fact of the matter is that I am not getting rid of the spa for the above reasons (although it has crossed my mind with some of the issues we've had), but in the same breath I am unfortunately too busy to properly maintain a chlorine spa per all your very helpful information. Since you have pointed out that having a bromine spa and a chlorine pool should not be an issue, I wonder if switching to bromine be the fix I am looking for (especially since I have previously maintained a bromine spa without any issues while facing the same busy schedule). If you don't mind just answering a few more questions I would greatly appreciate it. PS I fully intend to purchase the Taylor kit you mentioned to more accurately test not just my spa, but our pool as well. 1) Do bromine tablets in a floater pose any of the same threats to my spa as Trichlor? (keep in mind I fully intend to test pH, TA and bromine levels at least once or twice a week using the proper test kit you have mentioned). 2) If I switch to Bromine (likely a combination of tablets and granular), would I want to use MPS to help oxidize at that point, or add granular bromine to "shock"? - I will do my due diligence and search these forums for proper maintenance regimens for bromine spas as I'm sure you have enlightened people on this already, so if you choose not to answer this I would understand. 3) Can I continue to use boric acid in the spa if I switch to Bromine? I really like the way it made my spa feel (and I believe I took this advice from a prior post/comment from you, so thank you. I would like to reiterate that I greatly appreciate all your help and advice. I know it's not often that you have experts willing to help others for free and that sentiment is not lost on me. Especially since the people that sold me the spa have lead me down a completely incorrect path that has possibly lead to damage to my spa (o-rings and seals from very low pH) and the local spa/pool store that is open year round is less than willing to give free advice even though I buy my spa chemicals from them.

All of this brings up another question....if I by some miracle haven't screwed this tub up (bad o-rings and seals), is there really any concern with using bromine in my hot tub and chlorine in my pool? My kids love to go back in forth (especially at the beginning and end of the season when the weather is a little colder). It seems like switching to bromine would solve most of my problems with not being able to tend to this tub every day and would allow me to use pucks in the floater without worrying about my o-rings or seals. I feel like the pool is such a large area that whatever little bromine would enter from our bathing suits would likely not impact anything, but I definitely don't want to risk it if you are unsure. What problems should I be looking for if this is degrading o-rings or seals? I am assuming a leaking pump? Are you saying not to use MPS at all? Or just not for "shocking purposes"? I have read that the weekly dose still helps as it oxidizes and lets the chlorine be used more for sanitization rather than oxidizing.

I have a relatively new 400 gallon spa that we bought about 2 years ago. We use chlorine because we also have a chlorine pool and don't want to risk mixing of chlorine and bromine. At one point we had what looked like extensive amount of shredded white tissue or toilet paper floating throughout the spa when jets were on. This is when I first learned about biofilm. After cleaning/purging the spa with Ahh!Some cleaner, draining, cleaning the shell thoroughly and refilling we thankfully fixed that problem. That was about a year ago or more. Months ago we went on vacation and the person watching our house completely forgot about the spa care aspect we were paying them for, so chlorine levels were at zero for a few days. Weeks later we noticed biofilm (or that is my best guess) again, except it was black flakes (slimy that seem to disappear when rubbed between fingers - similar to the white version). I assume this is a black mold biofilm? We have not been nearly as lucky getting rid of this as we did the white flakes. I have used the Ahh!Some cleaner again, drained, cleaned and refilled the tub, only to find a bunch of black flakes again the following day. I read that it can take up to 3 applications of the Ahh!Some before you truly clean/purge the pipes. So the following week I used two more doses of Ahh!Some cleaner, draining, cleaning and rinsing the shell and refilling with clean/cold water in between each application (while running the jets to purge sufficiently - and even taking turns turning off jets on one seat at a time to increase the pressure and force this stuff out) before draining again. I noticed a few more specks at first but they seemed to be gone or at least not problematic (we might see one or two flakes - if any - about the size of the head of an eraser on a pencil or smaller even). That was last week...I was happy because it seemed my hard work, high water bill and hundreds of dollars in chemicals was worth it. We have kept our chlorine high (has not dipped at all) and made sure our water parameters are in check and shock with both chlorine and non chlorine shock after every use. We run the jets on full with the aerator wide open every couple of days at least while we check/add chemicals. All jets are open as well (as we believe have multiple closed jets for extended periods led to our first white biofilm problem). Today the kids, my wife and myself enjoyed a soak and once the jets kicked off after its normal 15 minute cycle we unfortunately noticed a ton of black flakes of various sizes again. We had been swapping and soaking the filter every couple of days after draining and refilling (we have two filters we swap out). One of filters was even brand new and fresh out of the package. We left the current filter in for the last week since I was at work all week. I did just swap it out with the filter that was soaking in filter cleaner again (which looks pristine). We don't have any headrests or any other external black/rubber components that could be causing this. I am about ready to sell this spa because it is becoming so frustrating, but we live in Michigan so my kids (and my joints/back) really enjoy the spa, especially during the colder months. I have a few questions that I was hoping some experts could help me with as my local spa dealers/shops have been less than willing to help. 1) Is the spa safe to use for my family as long as we maintain a chlorine level? Or do these black flakes present a health hazard to us? I have heard both. I have heard biofilm itself isn't really dangerous, but only when it prevents you from maintaining a proper sanitizer level (as it is used up trying to kill the biofilm) and opens us up to unsafe swimming/soaking due to the risks associated with low/zero sanitizer. I have also heard that the biofilm/mold itself is dangerous even with proper or high sanitizer levels? 2) What more can I do to get rid of this stuff? I can't just keep purging/cleaning/flushing the system, cleaning and refilling this spa because (a) it doesn't seem to make a difference and (b) it is time consuming and costly. I have read that running white vinegar will take care of the biofilm (but you would obviously need to adjust pH after given the high acidity), is this safe for the spa? Does it actually work? I have also heard to super chlorinate or keep chlorine high for weeks and/or do frequent filter changes (which we are basically doing (not SUPER chlorinating, just keeping it high at like 5-10). 3) Depending on the answers to the first two questions...do I even need to worry about getting rid of this? My water is beautiful (except for the black flakes/specks - which haven't been seen in mass until today), we have no issue at all maintaining the water parameters and sanitizer levels like we did with the last two biofilm issues (the original white one and the beginning of this black one). This clean water and zero issues maintaining water parameters make me wonder if I really have to worry about this? 4) Do spa "enzymes" help at all for this particular problem? Thanks ahead of time for any help/insight you guys/gals can provide. Believe it or not I am an experienced spa owner, but my prior spa was Bromine and we NEVER had this issue in the 5 years I lived at that house even when we were neglecting the spa and sanitizer levels got very low for extended periods (that was a very old spa and a very old house haha). We moved and did not have a spa the first few years in our new home and I decided to change that a few years ago and am starting to regret my decision sadly. - AJ -