dandreye

Many thanks. I was thinking of having more ozone for the following 2 reasons: 1) hoping to, well, minimize the use of chemicals, apparently w/o understanding that residual ozone is likewise bad for health, hence with questionable aggregate effect in the light of that 2) as a byproduct when adding extra ozone injectors thereby hoping to remove the apparent flow bottleneck at the current one, which is rated for something as low as 9gpm while Balboa M7 spa pack requires at least 20gpm for flow error free operation, ideally something in the 30-40gpm range on a consistent basis. I just ordered a Laing E14 circ pump and am thinking how to help it get well above that minimum figure as it seems to be somewhat weaker than traditional 48fr ones like Aqua-Flo CMHP (unsure if ozone high speed bypass in ozone injector manifold assembly will ever open under E14's pressure). I don't really have to connect extra ozone generators to them, or can even have some other type of bypass instead. If that helps speed up the flow w/o adversely affecting anything else then job done and I'll just let standard levels of ozone and chlorine/bromine do their job. I'll now need to check my Balboa VS510s for ozone management. My circ pump is going to run 24 hours a day and if I can program the spa pack to only keep ozone generator on while it adds the most value (as per your advice above - e.g. for a couple of hours after soaking is over I suppose) that's probably how I'll operate it indeed. Temperature wise I'm thinking of heating it up to 104ºFevery time before soaking and letting it fall to whatever temperature it does during the rest of the day if it makes any sense. This is for use only during warmest 4 months of the year for the foreseeable future, with daytime air temperatures around 85ºF most of that period (night time 60-75ºF).

chem geek: Makes sense... any idea how much chlorine (or bromine?) a 650-gallon spa would require in case of virtually everyday use by a couple of people? Re ozone injection, a venturi air injector is clearly the main bottleneck in my dedicated circulation loop (they all seem to be rated for circa 9gpms), so I'm thinking of adding 2 more of those in parallel along with Del Ozone MCD-50 to aid Spa Eclipse that I already have, which appears to be designed for up to 500-gallon spas. If besides increasing the bandwidth it also helps reduce the amount of chemicals it's a good news.

Would adding more ozone generators (along with extra venturi ozone injectors installed in parallel with the present one) help cut the amount of chemicals required at all, if so down to which % compared to standard amount recommended for a given spa volume?

PreservedSwine: I'm here to learn what to do and how to do it correctly. To get someone to do something for me properly (meaning in my best interests) I first need to understand inside out what I really want, which is all about detail. At the moment I need to understand all my possible options at removing hair, lint etc. so that I don't have to take it all out of my equipment downstream all the time. Do my precise technical questions violate any forum rules by chance? If not... why not just ignore them if you find them personally disturbing in any way. Hopefully someone else will find them sensible enough and answer, which will help me a lot. Update: just heard back from Pentair, who say my Rainbow RCF 172535 top load cartridge filter cannot be mounted on the suction side of circ pump. I'm fine with the pump going first, just need some pre-filtering capability on its suction side.

Hi All, Could anyone please suggest a way of removing leaves, hair etc. in an in-ground spa where installing a skimmer filter inside the spa is not an option? Based on the discussion above I understand that hair and lint traps like Waterway 310-6600 are not suitable in my case. Even if my cartridge filter Rainbow RCF 172535 can be mounted at the suction side (I'm currently awaiting a response from Pentair if it can indeed) it'll likely need a lot more frequent inspection/cleaning in case of no hair and lint trap whatsoever installed in front of it. Many thanks in anticipation!

PreservedSwine: You're referring to that Pool & Spa safety act, right? Thanks a lot for the warning: I didn't realize it'd be that bad as uneven covers on those suctions seemed safe to me... (looks like WW had those thoughts on their mind when designing them since the very beginning). Will 4x 250gpm suctions per 2 such pumps make it safe or will only make it worse? I bought 5 of them total back then (4 to install + 1 spare).

PreservedSwine: In that case perhaps I'll still take the risk and have a Laing E14 first and then depending on how long it lasts decide if I want another one of those or an Aqua-Flo CMHP. As per current design all 3 pumps are to be installed below water level in a dedicated "machine compartment" large enough for decent ventilation, likely close to the level of spa bottom about 3ft below ground level (out of noise considerations) but if there are any problems with that I can move any or all of them elsewhere. I can't have one of jet pumps do circ pump role though: they're already purchased and are both single speed. I also didn't want any of them to die prematurely as they're no less royal pain to get over to my place. Swapping a circ pump would be a lot less of an issue. So these baskets don't work properly or at all if installed below water level then? Is there anything else like that to filter it out before circ pump? A picture would be ideal (I haven't seen any somehow while browsing spa designs). For each 5hp pump I was planning a single 250gpm WW 640-4697 2"S suction and so bought a few of those. If one is not enough I can easily double them and merge their respective 2"S hoses using WW 672-8000. Was even thinking of using a similarly looking 2.5"S x (2) 2"S reducer to merge both 2"S into a single 2.5"S as long as it improves anything (my jet pumps are a 2"S suction version). I have a picture of already built concrete (outer) shell at hand to share but it doesn't seem possible to insert a picture here - only a URL.

PreservedSwine: What would be the best basket for an inground spa like mine? I didn't realise WW 310-6600 is a spa product, so if it's not ideally suitable then it's not an option (fortunately I haven't bought it yet). As for the video above, I was only referring to it as an example of circ pump installation after Balboa M-7 spa pack, hence no basket on the pump. Of course if such pump location is "net negative" I'll have to install it #1 in the path. Checking with Pentair wrt installation side of their Rainbow filters at the moment. What's best circ pump make/model was actually my very next question ) I personally liked Laing E14 a lot (rated for 35gpm max) based on the marketing materials (low amp draw being particularly attractive) but am being told from everywhere that it won't move enough water: afaik 20gpm is the very minimum a Balboa M7 pack requires, while something closer to 40gpm would be optimal. In particular here's a thread discussing it: http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/?showtopic=44893 If it's too risky to go for such pump even with my 2"S dedicated circ loop that will be hardly obstructed by anything unnecessary I'll then likely have to go for an Aqua-Flo CMHP, which would be good enough for sure. I understand Laing E14 was designed primarily with installations requiring small size in mind, right? Fortunately I'm not constrained by anything, especially room.

PreservedSwine: From my post #1: Will the following dedicated circulation path (completely detached from jets path) give me grief anywhere? Besides a dedicated circ pump I will have 2 separate jet pumps (WW Exec 5hp), each in its own separate loop: 2"S 250gpm suction > jet pump > 2 (out of 4) seats with jets. I calculated flow and pressure using WW methodology long ago, before having to put this project on hold (resuming it only now). Jet pumps are 258gpm max each and 2 seats with jets are around 200gpm total, the hoses are 3/4"S at the jets and 2"S everywhere else, no sharp corners etc, so I think I should be fine, just hope I won't get blown out of my spa. Again it has nothing to do with the dedicated circulation path in question, and it has nothing to do with looking for any "cheap" money saving opportunities either. I just thought perhaps the need to put the pump before spa pack is obsolete now that modern ones like Balboa M7 systems don't have pressure switches to detect the presence of water in the heater, and if so indeed why not take advantage of it other things equal. Thanks for the hint about easier priming with the basket on the pump - I clearly didn't take that into account. So does it mean that it's a badly designed circ path in this spa too? (starting from 35s into the video onwards) It's after seeing it I also started thinking why not, as the basket (if present at all) is clearly not on this Laing E14 pump, which attaches directly to the heater. That spa looks like a ready product probably selling to the public in large quantities and designed by some professionals I would expect...

Dr. Spa:I wish I knew their respective limitations but I don't as it all is entirely new to me. Understanding what's allowed and what's not is the first step, that's why I'm here. If there's a filter that can be installed at the suction side (before spa pack and pump) I only see the benefits of that mentioned above and just trying to find out if there are any negative sides in such design. As for the ozone injector manifold assembly orientation, it probably won't be a problem to install it horizontally either, I just wanted to find out if vertically is fine in case I'll have to consider installing it that way.

PreservedSwine: Thank you: will do. I could alternatively install it after my circ pump indeed but that way both the heater and the pump will be getting dirtier than otherwise, which is exactly what I am hoping to avoid. If that's the only issue perhaps I'd rather swap my filter for a vacuum side friendly one. One more idea I have on my mind is installing ozone injector manifold assembly vertically on the upwards facing discharge port of my circ pump. Is that OK or it has to be installed horizontally?

Hi All, Designing an in-ground spa for myself at the moment. Will the following dedicated circulation path (completely detached from jets path) give me grief anywhere? 2"S suction > Waterway 310-6600 2"S Hair & Lint trap > Rainbow RCF172535 2"S filter w/ chemical dispenser > Balboa VS510s spa pack > Aqua-Flo CMHP circ pump > DEL UI211 2"S ozone injector manifold assembly > 2"S return The idea behind placing circ pump after spa pack is to make it pull water through most of the path instead of pushing it, thereby reducing pressure (Balboa M7 systems have no pressure switch - they measure flow using sensors). Many thanks in advance!