Spa User Guy

It was a floor model 2006 Hotsprings Vista for $7795 and they had a Vanguard floor model for $6595 and Sovereign Classic for $5895. These are all brand new, not scratched or dented. I remember the salesman saying that for whatever reason the azurite blue was not a fast selling color in our area. The Vista and and Vanguard were both that color. Maybe here in SE Washington State we have a lower price markup due to our location and cost of living? I know over toward Seattle/Portland Ore prices are much higher. I guess 8K for a Vanguard struck me as a bit high based on prices I see here. 8K is alot to spend on any brand basic/no frills spa in my opinion.

The price you were quoted for the Vanguard seems a little on the steep side, I was at the local Hotsprings dealer the other day and saw a Vista priced at $7795.00 which seemed like a good deal. Depending on your geographical location $8000 might be the going price, it just seems to be alot to spend on a good tub with basic features, but not near the tub that the Vista or Grandee is.

Good luck and remember if you aren't happy with what you use to start with there is another great option out there despite what some of the naysayers say...wink..wink. I am sure you will enjoy your spa when you get it installed, up and running.

As a good rule of thumb, I would never suggest anyone buy a warranty returned item of any kind. You never can be assured that you are hearing the real reason it was returned to begin with. Think about it....there must have been something seriously wrong with a warranty returned hot tub. The dealer could repair virtually any minor problem to the original customer's satisfaction. I would assume something major and you wouldn't want that.

Yes he is the one and only username Roger.

At last a topic we can all agree on, drinking an ice cold beer while hot tubbing. Life just doesn't get much better than that.

You may want to check with Roger, he seems to have quite a bit of experience with used tubs and know alot about them.

Welcome to the world of hot tubbing!! That tub is about 10k+ in my area before bartering. I would say that you should be happy with that deal. I have never had the pleasure of wet testing an Optima. I am curious as to which makes and model you preferred the Optima to? What did you like best about your wet test? That is a one great looking tub, enjoy your new purchase.

I think you made a wise choice that will give you years of enjoyment. You will be happy you chose the model with more jets, the signature series are a little light on jets in my opinion. Enjoy the hot water.

lol, I hate it when that happens to me. If your like me it happens all too often.

What is a Kuru???

I am not going to argue that the spa electrical service boxes should be made of plastic rather than steel. Take a look at the service box for your house or disconnect for a spa... steel for sure, Granted that the spa electrical connection box is located inside the skirting and not exposed to outside elements, steel would still be superior to plastic or composite material.

Why don't you just stop making excuses and answer the question how much practical experience do you really have?? You weren't afraid to try to put me in my place when I tried to share my opinion so what gives? I think this question is justified since you consider yourself to be the one and only supreme authority on spa water treatment. The valued posters await your response, your age doesn't reveal much to us with regards to your practical experience.

Very insightful post Tom!

I am happy that you took the time to read all my other 50 some posts, apparently you found them to be interesting enough to intrigue you. Hopefully you learned some things. Where do you find the time? I can't understand how you expect to be treated any other way when you try to belittle someone for having an opinion about something that differs from your own. You are right I should not have dropped myself down to your level and insulted you back. For those other forum readers I am sorry for that. That is not the purpose of the forum. When you learn to respect others you will in turn be treated with respect. I don't profess to be a spa water expert as you do yourself. Apparently I made the mistake of calling a product peroxide based when according to you it isn't. This still doesn't give you the right to jump down my throat about it. I'm certainly not going to be inclined to just sit there and take it. I simply wanted to share my first hand experience with a spa water treatment I have been using for months. This gives the person who originally asked the question some other information on other viable spa water treatments. How much practical experience do you have with this product? In my many months of using this product (SoftSoak) I have never experienced any of the negative characteristics you described about it.

Going back to grade school and learning to spell would be my suggestion for you. If you think you are the only one with the "right" opinion about what is the best water treatment to use for a spa, you better think again. I merely stated that I happen to like using Soft Soak in my spa. If you don't like that go **** yourself. Biotchhh!!

Code says 360 degrees currently, please see the information listed below with the code reference in brackets. Verified today by an Electrical contractor and State Inspector. Conduit Systems General Requirements Access covers to conduit system must remain accessible [370-29] [4405.10] No common plastic boxes with metal raceway, BX or MC cable [370-3] [4405.1] Splicing in conduit bodies only if cu.in. capacity is marked & of sufficient size [370-16c] [4405.14.1] Bends- max. 360° between pull points [348-10] [t 4302.1] Crimps (kinks) in pipe not permitted [348-9] [4302.5]

Whatever all knowing Waterbear, take a good look at the back of the bottle of SoftSoak Shock. It says 7.5% hydrogen peroxide solution in the contents description which is what I meant by peroxide based, excuse me if I used the wrong terminology. The sanitizer is biguanide sanitizer like you say. Back to my main point. I like it because it doesn't stink like bromine or chlorine, doesn't soak into your skin or hair and make it bleach or stink, doesn't fade my swimsuit, doesn't dry out my skin or irritate my eyes and it lasts longer than chlorine or bromine. This is coming from a person who actually uses a spa nearly every day. Those are reasons enough for me to like it. Personally I could care less if it is not EPA approved, it doesn't need to be. Some of the most health hazardous chemicals are EPA approved for use? You are more comforted by the fact that chlorine is EPA approved?? That is my 2 cents worth, and my opinion is that I like Soft Soak as a better option than chlorine or bromine.

Just 1 other small note to add: There can only be (4) 90 degree bends per each run of conduit. This means only (4) 90 degree bends from your service box to the disconnect and from there only (4) 90 degree bends from the disconnect to the spa not including the flexible liquid tight section from the end of your schedule 40 to the spa electrical connection box. This is helpful to know for planning purposes prior to digging your trenches.

I have been using Soft Soak products (peroxide based) in my spa for about 6 months and am very pleased with the results. There is a slight clean smell to the spa water rather than a chlorine or bromine smell. The water does not bleach out swimsuits and is very easy on your skin and eyes. Weekly I just add a small amount of Soft Soak shock, Waterline control, Stain and Scale control and Sanitizer only if needed. It does cost a little more than Chlorine or Bromine, but is worth it in my opinion. I really like the fact that it doesn't dry out my skin very much and there is no need to shower afterwards. The only setup change you need to make is to disable the ozonator, this water treatment program works better without using the ozonator.

I think you are right on in your thinking and interpretation of the test data, when considering a top brand spa, TP or FF it will be relatively energy efficient or comparable. There are always going to be those out there that refuse to accept this and actually comprehend that this is true. Some folks are just plain hard headed and keep coming up with excuses as why not to accept the facts. I don't think you are missing anything someone else is.

I would go with the slightly used Hotspring Grandee if you don't want a lounger. I love having a lounger in mine however that is just my preference. The Grandee sells for anywhere around 8-10k new. You can't get a decent spa of comparable size or quality for 5k. I would not have a TV in my spa and personally chose to not have a stereo in mine either. I think having television stereo equipment in the hot steamy spa environment is just asking for trouble. I seldom use the waterfall feature, however I enjoy the different colored lights in a spa. For 5k the Grandee is going to be hard to beat unless you can't live without a lounger.

I think you are missing the main point to the test results. You could wonder all day long about what if you added some extra insulation to one or thicker cover to the other, but that is really beside the point here. The spas were tested as they would come from factory. If the next nearest competitor had a better cover from the factory it would have been tested like that. Arctic spas arguably come with a very nice well insulated cover no doubt. The fact of the matter is that the results of the test showed that two configurations of an Arctic spa consumed less electricity than a group of other comparable models. The two closest runner ups were very close in the energy efficiency however they were edged out by two Arctic (TP designed spas). The point they make in the test is that a quality TP designed spa such as Arctic, can be on par or better than a quality FF designed spa in energy efficiency. The test proves to all but a few doubting Thomas's that quality built TP Spas and FF spas are comparable with regards to energy efficiency. The test showed that the Arctic Yukon, Hotsprings Vanguard and Beachcomber were all super energy efficient.

One of the most important things to consider is how well the manufacturer will honor the terms of the warranty. Do some research to find out which ones have the best reputations for the manufacturer taking care of warranty issues. Without support from the manufacturer, the dealer or service tech no matter how good will be limited in their ability to provide assistance. My ratings would be #1 Manufacturer reputation for quality and customer service regarding warranty issues, #2 Service tech knowledge and factory training programs they have received, many dealers can show you the training qualifications for their techs.

Jim, I see your point of view on this, the other spa designs certainly appear to meet the standard requirements. All I am saying is that the other design although it appears to the average person as being a deviation to the standard. Only ANSI actually has the authority to look at the design and determine whether or not it meets the intent of the standard. That is the only point I had with the original post, ANSI would have to look at this one and decide.