RedCourt

Thanks, I've ordered it (The ChlorMaker by the same MFG as the TechniChlor but different/easier controls), should be here in a few days. I'll report back since I didn't see a whole lot of info on here regarding member experience with various models.

I forgot to mention that I have very little interest in switching to bromine, I'm much more comfortable with the chlorine bleach method of sanitisation. (smell + negative personal association)

I need a little help. I am smart and genuinely interested in keeping my hot tub as perfect as possible, however, I also suffer from this lovely thing called “chemo-brain” that makes me very absent minded. They tell me this will eventually go away (in 5-10 years!) but in the meantime I frequently forget to check my chem levels. (I also have a hell of a time remembering to water plants, thankfully the dog still gets fed!) We have a 380 Gallon Caldera and I had been using the Dichlor-bleach method, but would miss a day or three at a time and that was worrying me since sometimes the chlorine would get to 0. (Almost never more than three because I love going in!) I switched to the Nature2 using MPS/soak and Chlorine (bleach) shock on a roughly weekly basis. My thinking was that it was a slightly lower maintenance way to maintain the spa. That’s what I am doing now however I suspect that the sanitiser levels are still getting too low sometimes as well. We had people over a few days ago and we all noticed a faint odd smell (mildew-ish if I had to describe it) despite having added MPS prior to the soak and verifying the levels were higher for the anticipated bather load. I am now thinking that the Nature2 is not going to be the right system for me with my limitations. I'm thinking that getting a salt water chlorine generator might be the best solution for my well-intentioned but spacy brain. I know a SWCG isn’t a set and forget solution, I'm not expecting it to be, but I’m thinking it will provide some stability to the system that I have been having difficulty managing on a daily basis and for about $300 that seems well worth it. I’m not sure how a SWCG maintenance routine would work but my thinking is: Each fill balance the water as usual, add boric acid to 50 ppm (still a good idea with SWCG?) and 100% pure cyanuric acid to 30-40 ppm. Add whatever sort of salts need to be added and activate the SWCG. Continue to check levels the same way that I have been to maintain balanced water and add bleach when necessary and/or for high bather loads. Does this seem like a good plan to make sure the sanitiser never dips below zero or am I seriously missing something? If this is a good idea and anyone has more experience with SWCGs in hot tubs I’d love suggestions. I’m thinking of either the TechniChlor 220 http://www.amazon.com/TechniChlor-220-Saltwater-Generator-Chlorinator/dp/B003TL8UQS/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1369961603&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=TechniChlor+220 ChlorMaker IL http://www.amazon.com/ChlorMaker-IL-Saltwater-Generator-Chlorinator/dp/B005L9AT8S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1369961510&sr=8-1&keywords=ChlorMaker+IL Chem-Geek and Waterbear I'd especially appreciate your input, I've come to respect you both pretty highly in reading over old posts and your help already since I've joined.

Thanks Chem Geek, I appreciate your replies and the level of knowledge you bring to these conversations. I'm not using Nature 2 (asked on different post) but I'm wanting to look into it as an option for the future. I revised my cheat sheet based on your feedback, and thank you! I was absolutely using the CSI to determine my TA. I was figuring my ultimate goal should be a CSI as close to 0 as I could possibly get it. I left the MPS in the cheat sheet, mainly because I already bought it, but if there is no benefit to it I'll just use it up and stick to bleach. I also calculated my estimated WRI based on your formula and it seems to make sense, but I came across another post you made where it seemed like you were using the weekly bather load in this formula instead of the daily. I hope I'm doing it correctly, because I'd hate to use the tub for 7 times the suggested replacement interval! Initial setup with new fill · Balancing water after a new fill: o Bring temp up to 100 degrees o Run all jets and air features o Lower Total Alkalinity TA to ~50 ppm (for pH stability) o Add 50 ppm Boric Acid (15oz for 380gal tub) and adjust Calcium Hardness CH to 140 (to prevent foaming. Should not have to do often unless water volume is changing. As long as it’s over 100 you can choose not to increase it, but other numbers here will be different. Adjust accordingly) o Continue to run all jets and air features (this impacts pH) o Adjust pH to 7.5 (7.5 is pH of human eye) · Shock and determine baseline Chlorine Demand (CD): 1. Shock tub to approx 10 ppm FC using Dichlor the first night after filling. (Note number and do not use tub!) 2. Wait 24 hours and test FC again in order to calculate Chlorine Demand. (ok to use tub after this step) 3. CD = Measurement from #2/#1 Ongoing Maintenance · Check FC before soaks and add dichlor / bleach after soaks. · Use Dichlor after soaks ONLY until you have added enough to raise CYA to 30ppm (~3oz for 380 gal tub) then switch to Clorox unscented bleach 6% after that. · Optional: Add MPS before/during high bather loads to help out the Chlorine, and keep CD low. (Can also use MPS instead of bleach sometimes after soaks, but it costs more w/ no significant benefit.) o Sanitization guideline per person per hour is: § 3-1/2 teaspoons of Dichlor or § 5 fluid ounces of 6% bleach (e.g. Clorox regular unscented) or § 7 teaspoons of MPS non-chlorine shock · Check pH once a week, and adjust TA as needed. · Rinse filter(s) every week or two, depending on use. · Check CYA every 3 months, and raise by using Dichor if needed. CYA will drop slowly over time. · Use Sea Klear (clarifier) if you experience foam, or cloudy water. Water Change · After 3-6 months, change water and start over. o Water Replacement Interval (WRI) adjusted for Dichlor-then-bleach and using person-hours is Days = (2/9) x (Spa Size in Gallons) / (Person-Hours Per Day) so for 2 people using the spa together § 2 people x15 min/day: (0.2 x 380) / (0.5) = 169 days (~5½ months) § 2 people x 30 min/day: (0.2 x 380) / (1) = 84 days (~2⅘ months) · Shop vac out dregs and flush with fresh water, wipe down inside and clean w/ enzyme if necessary · Consider using a Spa Flush to clean out pipes before draining 1-2 times a year. · Clean filter every water change. (See separate cheat doc) · If the FC drops to zero for any length of time or you're having serious medical issues (i.e. rashes etc.) consider doing a full decontamination.

After reading a bunch on this forum I think I've (mostly) got me head around maintaining our new Hot Tub. I made myself an excel log for my readings and a single page "cheat sheet" for me to keep with my Taylor kit to reference. If someone (Chem Geek?) would take a gander and let me know if there is something I'm missing / forgetting or not addressing I'd be very appreciative. :-) Initial setup with new fill · Balancing water after a new fill: o Bring temp up to 100 degrees o Run all jets and air features o Add 50 ppm Boric Acid (15oz for 380gal tub) and adjust Calcium Hardness CH to 140 (should not have to do often unless water volume is changing. As long as it’s over 100 you can choose not to increase it, but other numbers here will be different. Use The Pool Calculator to check those numbers.) o Continue to run all jets and air features (this impacts pH) o Adjust pH to 7.5 (7.5 is pH of human eye) o Lower Total Alkalinity TA to the point where Calcite Saturation Index CSI is zero (should be 110 before introduction of CYA from Dichlor, may need to be 115+ after.) · Shock and determine baseline Chlorine Demand: 1. Shock tub to approx 10 ppm FC using Dichlor the first night after filling. (Note number and do not use tub!) 2. Wait 24 hours and test FC again in order to calculate Chlorine Demand. (ok to use tub after this step) 3. CD = Measurement from #2/#1 Ongoing Maintenance · Check FC before soaks and add dichlor / bleach after soaks. · Use Dichlor after soaks ONLY until you have added enough to raise CYA to 20ppm (2oz for 380 gal tub) then switch to Clorox unscented bleach 6% after that. · Add MPS before/during high bather loads to help out the Chlorine, and keep CD low. (Good to also use MPS instead of bleach sometimes after soaks) o Guideline per person per hour is: § 3-1/2 teaspoons of Dichlor or § 5 fluid ounces of 6% bleach (e.g. Clorox regular unscented) or § 7 teaspoons of MPS non-chlorine shock · Check pH once a week, and adjust TA as needed. · Rinse filter(s) every week or two, depending on use. · Check CYA every 3 months, and raise by using Dichor if needed. CYA will drop slowly over time. · Use Sea Klear (clarifier) if you experience foam, or cloudy water. Water Change · After 3-6 months, change water and start over. o Shop vac out dregs and flush with fresh water, wipe down inside and clean w/ enzyme if necessary · Consider using a Spa Flush to clean out pipes before draining 1-2 times a year. · Clean filter every water change. (See separate cheat doc) · If the FC drops to zero for any length of time or you're having serious medical issues (i.e. rashes etc.) consider doing a full decontamination.

Oh yea, and how do you measure MPS in the water? I have the Taylor kit, but I didn't see anything regarding that.

New spa owner and I'm having some frustration trying to buy MPS. There are so many different non-chlorine shock's available and apparently MPS can be referred to my several different chemical names... Potassium peroxymonosulfate potassium monopersulfate monopersulfate compound ...what about sodium persulfate, thats the Spa-Kem non chlorine shock at Lowes, is it the same..? The GLB Oxy-Brite is 41.3% w/ "unique blue water brightening crystals that polish the water" Oxy Spa Non-chlorine MPS is 42.8% I don't want extra crap, I want the most straightforward compound I can get, what's the 55+% of "Other stuff" in the MPS shocks? Do I need it and can I find/use straight Potassium peroxymonosulfate?

I'm a new owner too and I'm also having a little difficulty getting my head around the FC, CC relationship. What's the issue with high CC? I think I'm doing the Dichlor then bleach method correctly (without having any MPS anyhow) but my CC seems to always be high... around 1ppm. Shouldn't it be <0.5? And why?

Thank you again, I really appreciate the way you cite your information and back up what your saying. It is a very rare thing these days. :-)

Thanks waterbear! I decided on muriatic acid because I didn't want to increases the sulfate level unnecessarily. I'm used to dealing with micro qty's in other areas of alchemy so I think I'll be ok. Glad to know that the guy I bought it from wasn't all that well informed. Neither was the guy at the Pool store when I was looking for boric acid, blank stare then tried to sell me their branded system. LOL

I would be using it to lower the pH when necessary per Nitro's water maintaince guidelines.

My new tub is a reconditioned Caldera Geneva w/ new pump and heater. Electrician connected it today and my plan had been to do Nitro's decontamination and follow that with his outlined Dichlor water maintenance method. The guy I bought it from (former sales rep for two different spa companies) lost it when I mentioned planning to use Muriatic Acid. (It sounds like a better choice than sulphuric to me) According to him that's a HUGE no-no in an acrylic spa... I tend to think I would have run across more discussion about that here if it was really such a huge thing. Is there an entirely different water chemistry protocol for acrylic above ground spas? Or is he just used to touting the company line and selling branded products? (That's my guess)

Chem Geek - YOU ROCK! Thank you :-) I would love links to the studies if you have them, I am a big advocate of reading the actual studies, especially as more and more "news" sources are laying off their science writers. Reading the original studies is the only way to get accurate information it seems. (google anything + cancer and the misinformation all over the place is absurd!) I test out recipes and processes for different food and cooking techniques. Calcium chloride is used in a variety of molecular gastronomy applications to make fancy little balls out of liquids. I was just wondering if food grade was different or if it is all the same. Thanks again for the answers! Court

Hi All, I'm a newbie - just bought a nice used hot tub that will be delivered this weekend. It appears to have been well maintained, but I am still planning to use Nitro's decontamination process before it is going to be used. I am also currently a cancer patient. I'm a 37 year old woman with no significant family history of breast cancer yet wham, cancer. I tend to think (and my oncologist agrees) that environmental toxins are the most likely culprits for the increases in cancer rates in younger people... I have therefore become quite the product hippie. Everything in the house as certified organic or at least as natural as possible... (my SO is very sweet to keep using my homemade toothpaste - LOL). I do however also have a compromised immune system from chemo/radiation so I don't want to risk unproven methods of water chemistry maintenance. There is a LOT more to maintaining a hot tub than I expected, but I do a lot of food chemistry for my business so I'm ready to jump in and tackle it! :-) I am one of those *** retentive people that researches the ever loving heck out of things before trying them so my current plan is to do the decontamination and proceed with chlorine (Dichlor I guess?) if/until I find a less potentially toxic option for maintaining the new Hot Tub. (Chlorine appears to be less of a toxic risk than bromine) I have several question I'm hoping someone can help me with: 1) Peroxide - Has anyone got any experience with using Hydrogen Peroxide instead of chlorine or bromine to keep the hot tub water clean and safe? I have been reading a little about it, but I am so new to this that I'm not trying anything without WAY more info. 2) Shopping List - I'm trying to get ready for the disinfection/decontamination and initial fill. A Taylor K-2006 is on the list as is the swirl away (couldn't find spa flush on Amazon) and bleach but regarding the other chemicals I'm going to need for the water: - Is Dichlor a brand name or is any chlorinating granule the same chlorine/acid blend? (Kem-Tek keeps coming up on my searches) - What about the calcium chloride, is that the same as the kind I use in the test kitchens or is there a difference for spa usage? - Borates, I can't find online, is this the same as straight boric acid? I'm sure I'll have more questions as I go, but I appreciate any help I can get so thanks in advance! RedCourt