waterl0gged

O.K. Been following along for a while now ............. mostly on the Hot-tub forum. Have had a hot tub for about 1 year, and with the help from this forum (thanks chem-geek and waterbear !) , my hot tub has been running great with the dichlor / bleach method. Now I am on to bigger (maybe better) things. Yes.............still keeping the hot tub ! We just purchased a new (to us) home with an inground pool . Dims are 35' x 18'. Deep end is 8' with a shallow end of 3. Vinyl liner with plastic or fiberglass steeps. Diving board too ! Here is the confusing part. All of the filtration equipment is in a pump house. I have a cartridge style filter AND a sand filter AND a DE filter all plumbed into a mess of PVC piping. They each appear to be plumbed with shutoffs and looks like each can be run individually or all together. Guess its up to the person "turning the valves". I am thinking of keeping the cartridge and DE filters and dumping the sand filter all together. Maybe install a chlorinator in place of the sand filter..............or not. Might go with liquid chlorine or bleach too and just add stabilizer as needed. Any thoughts on this crazy filtration set-up ??? Oh yea............there is also some kind of heat exchanger plumbed all the way up in the attic too ! I will likely get rid of that............not real keen on circulating 20,000 + gallons of pool water through my attic ! Thanks for the opinions . waterl0gged

So, first real world test of the dosing sytem ............leap of faith ! Went on vacation for 2 weeks . Made sure the system was good to go (timer set, full bleach bottle etc.), and left for a 2 week vacation with fingers crossed. During the 2 week span, the cover was never opened, and no one was doing maintanance on the tub ............nothing at all. Just the automated bleach system running the ship ! Came back from vacation and opened the cover ....................... PERFECT ! Crystal Clear water and all levels are in check. CYA was a ever so slightly lower, but thats to be expected. FC in the 3-5 range. Alk perfect, PH slightly lower, prob due to the cover not being opened for 2 weeks. Will have to add some dichlor soon, which I do monthly to bring up the CYA. I am thrilled. Used about the normal 1/2 gallon of bleach for the 2 week time span. Everything actually worked like it was supposed too ! Now that I am posting this, I just realized I never posted any pics for you guys. I will get some posted next time I pull off the access panel to change out the bleach bottle or adjust the timer. waterl0gged

waterbear, Was going to pull off the access panel and snap a few pics tonight. Thunderstorms right now.........so I will get some pics as soon as I can. chem geek, Yes, I do realize I need to keep a check on the CYA levels. Everytime we have more than our usual 1.5 person hours per day in the tub (party, guests over etc. ) I usually just add some dichlor. Seems to keep everything in check so far. ButI do test and add dichlor as needed. Thanks, waterl0gged

Agreed on all points. The actual chemical being dosed is the main problem. Bleach is very caustic to most things. The pump rubber tubing sets is my main concern. Right now I am using dosing pumps in my reef tanks for 3 part dosing. Alk, Calcium, and Mag supplements, but have done Kalk for years as well. Actualy now that I think of it, one of my frag tanks is still using kalk, lol. I originally was looking for a clorine dosing pump like that is used in commercial clorinated water systems...........but they are very expensive. SO this is like a trial run. If it works well with a cheaper dosing pump............great. If the pump cant hold up to the caustic bleach and the rest of the system works well ...........I will just upgrade to a more durable commercial bleach approved pump (they are several hundred dollars). I can roll with some tweaks here and there if needed. I was mainly trying to relieve myself from the daily duty of manually dosing bleach. So far it has been working well for months. Time will tell if it will last for the longterm . I will update on all counts...........good or bad. I did initially have a slight problem where I went a little fancy with a nice bottom feed dedicated bleach container. Well the light duty seals on the bottom feed plumbing did not hold up to the bleach and leaked about a gallon of bleach. Now I just use the actual 1 gallon bleach bottle with the dosing pump tubing just stuck into the bottle ziptied to a thin fiberglass "stick" so the tubing is at the bottom of the jug. Has been working great for a while this way. Thanks for the input ! waterl0gged

Hey waterbear, I do test regularly..............although less than usual lately. Used to be daily, now that I am confindent the system is working well, I test every few days to make sure everything is good to go. Being new at this hot-tub thing, and making some mistakes ..............and seeing what the outcomes of those mistakes look like, I can say that I can tell if something is "not quite right" just by looking or ............as weird as its sound...........smelling the water, lol. The peristaltic pump I choose for this project is well proven, as a matter of fact I have several running right now, that have been in service for years.......... almost trouble free, I just change the "pump tube" once in a while. They are cheap replacements...........less than $10. per tube set. As far as poweroutages ............. well if its more than a few days, I can add bleach manually. If it happens while we are away............worst case scenerio is I just do a drain and refill if things get bad. All of the digital features on the hot tub, and timer are battery back-up, so they will hold the time and settings. The dosing pump is a simple power on - on, power off - off pump. Once the power comes back on ...........everything returns to status qou. Our power rarely goes out, but I have thought about the "what if". If our power goes out for an extended amount of time..............well we will have more to worry about than a hot-tub, lol !!! I will see if I can post some pics shortly. Just have to figure out how to post them on this site. I should be able to use photobucket and direct link them. waterl0gged

Hey all, Just wanted to stop by and let you guys in on an experiment I have been doing for several months now. Its an automated bleach method of sanitation. Basically its the dichlor/bleach method (thanks chemgeek,waterbear), but instead of adding bleach manually every day........I figured there had to be a better way..........there has to be some way to automate this process via a dosing pump or something ! Well there is. Besides taking care of our new hot tub ( and loving it !), I am an avid saltwater coral reef & fish tank owner. There are all kinds of hi-tech automated equipment in that hobby, and it got me thinking............why cant some of that automated system technology work with our hot-tubs ??? Well I have been playing around with this for quite a while, and feel I have it working well now, so I can share. First I start with the dichlor / bleach method. I use dichlor for the first week or so after a fresh fill to get my CYA up to about 30-50ppm. My water is very good hot-tub water and I only have to slighly adjust PH and Alk just a bit. I generally keep my PH at approx 7.5, and Alk is approx 80 PPM. Once I get all my levels where they should be ...........I start the bleach method. Initially I had to figure a basline of exactly how much bleach I need to add daily to keep my FC level exactly where I want it when we generally go in the hot tub (evening usually). I shoot for a FC level of approx 2-3 ppm at the time of use. I am using concentrated 8.25% bleach, and I need approx 3.5 oz. of 8.25% bleach per day to hit my FC numbers (right before bathing at night). Generally we are about a 1 -1.5 person hours a day. So instead of dumping 3/4 cup of bleach in per day (approx 3.5 oz)............every day........day in day out...........its now automated. I set up a 110v 4 roller peristaltic dosing pump(yes its on a gfci) to dose the bleach. Its a constant volume pump (to keep it simple), and I adjust the dosing rate via a digital timer. The pump doses 1.6ml of fluid per minute. So I have it set-up to dose 96ml of fluid per night. 96ml = 0.40 us cup , so almost 3/4 of a cup of bleach per night (slightly less). I run the dosing pump for exactly 1 hour every night at the start of the night time filtration cycle so it will be mixed well while dispensing. By design the 4 roller pump is non back siphoning.........but i have also included a check valve to prevent any backflow what so ever. I inject the bleach into a spare port that was already installed in the hot tub..........but wasnt being used (bio-quest port ???), also I could have used the ozone port, but I wanted to keep it simple, and not have the bleach get dispensed into the jet plumbing........but it will work if there was no other option. I made sure that any and all fittings are only plastic.........no metal fittings anywhere on the system. The bleach runs through silicone based tubing, and hopefully that will hold up for a long while...........time will tell. I check the tubing at least weekly for now, until I am confindent it will last for the long haul. At the very least I will replace the tubing at least once per year..........its cheap. I just us a 1 gallon bottle of bleach that fits perfectly in a nice spot, inside the hot tub shell. It wont freeze in the winter this way, and is out of the sunlight so it wont degrade. A gallon of bleach lasts over a month. I have a small door I made on my hot tub shell that I can access the dosing pump, bottle of bleach and the timer. Its all integrated within the hot tub shell. So, if I need to adjust the bleach levels a bit ...........I can just add or subtract a few minutes to the daily timer, and its done. If for some reason we have a hot tub gathering or party and need a 1 time boost of clorine ..........I will either manually put in some bleach, or usually I just add some dichlor to keep the cya levels up. Its pretty easy, and has been working well for several months now. Its a great feeling to know that I dont have to add bleach every day. Sometimes I would forget .......... or if it was pouring rain out, I would just skip it. My hot tub suffered because of it. Now I dont have to worry about anything. My sanitation levels have been rock solid for months now. Hot tub water is perfectly clear, all the time. No weird smells because of non - consistant levels. The hot tub has been ............well ............perfect for months now. Best part is that I dont really have to do anything to maintain it. I do check my levels once in a while ...........but they are always perfect ! Once I noticed the FC dropped too much..........and that just told me that it was time to switch out bleach bottles since I forgot ! Anyway...........thats it. Its still in beta mode, and I am still checking on everything at least weekly to make sure nothing is degrading do to the bleach. So far so good. My hot tub is easy to maintain now, and also as an added benifit, I dont have to worry when we go out of town or on vacation for extended amouts of time. If there is any interest, I can post some pictures of the set-up if anyone is interested. While researching how I was going to do this .............I found out, there are a lot of different ways to reach the same results. I just went with the simplest and cheapest way to start with. I have about $125. in hard parts to make this system work. Its working great !!! waterl0gged

Yea, Thats how I look at it too. The N2 sticks only cost $20. bucks so I would rather have an extra measure of sanitation in place. I am not worried if some would say I am wasting a few bucks. I am not looking to keep the tub going as cheap as possible. Better safe than sorry. I like having the N2 installed for when we are away for a few days, or if I neglect the tub accidently for a day or two. At least when I open the cover on return, I shouldnt have a mess to deal with. The N2 set-up I am using is working well so far. I am using MPS, but am also using Dichlor (will switch to bleach soon) a few times per week for that extra measure of safety. I plan on changing the N2 every 3 months just incase the extra clorine use is degrading the N2 prematurely. I do have a 2 week vacation coming up soon........not sure how I am going to deal with that. I am thinking of installing a new N2 stick and super clorinating to 10-15ppm before we leave for vacation. Also will turn the temp down to the lowest at 80 deg. Hopefully that will work, and I wont return to a mess. I am learning as I go, but so far, I am liking the N2 Spa. waterl0gged

Thanks for the reply Chem Geek, The spa was not brand new, but we were able to see it in filled working condition and did a wet-test before we made the purchase. Spa is great, we love it, no problems other than the cloudy water overnight which I attribute to my inexperience in sanitation and water balance. Anyway, did the drain and refill overthe weekend........dang thats a cold job in the winter! Then balanced the water before I added any sanitation. Got the alk at about 80-100, than brought the PH up to about 7.5. Installed the nature 2 stick, and superclorinated the water with dichlor to 10ppm and let it run while heating overnight. Also installed a new filter, and a zorbo thing. Water is crystal clear again, and I will try hard to keep it that way. BTW, we dont keep our tub extremely hot. Max would be 102 once in a while , but it usually set at 100. I am not sure if I trust the Nature 2 with only MPS for enough sanitation. I would rather be safe than sorry, and we have no issues with clorine so far. Nature 2 does have a alternative method in where you use dichlor instead of MPS, so I thing I will go that route to be safe. I can just Shock with MPS weekly, or use MPS when needed for higher bathing loads. I will just add enough dichlor to the water after we use the tub to bring the clorine level up to about 2-3 ppm. The only issue I can see is the CYA getting out of hand. I do not have a test for CYA yet. If I use bleach vs dichlor, would that help with the CYA building up too much? So far I am using approx 1/2 - 1 teaspoon of dichlor per person hour after we exit the tub while the pumps are running, so its ready for the next day. (while using the nature 2 stick also) . Seems to be working great, but not sure how my CYA is building? Does shocking with MPS once per week help with lowering CYA? The levels when we get in the tub the next day are at .5-1 ppm which fine with us, and at least I feel the tub has been sanitized properly. Am I wrong in running the tub this way? I am going to read up on the dichlor / bleach method and see if that will work for us as well. I just like to have the extra "buffer of safety" by using the nature 2 stick incase we accidently neglect the tub for a day or two once in a while. I dont mind paying a little extra every 3-4 months for a new stick, if it gives us a little extra sanitation buffer. Thanks, waterl0gged

Hey all, Been reading this forum for a while now, and have been learning a lot, THANKS !!! I am a newer spa owner, and have a few questions. We have had our 375 gallon spa running for a few weeks now. Have only been using dichlor ........up till now. Tub has been running great, nice clear water, levels where they should be.....overall its been great. A little more maintanance intensive than I would have thought, but no big deal. Then one day out of th blue, opened up the tub to very cloudy water.......pretty much overnight. We have used the tub quite a bit over the holidays as we had the extra time , and we enjoy it a lot. Anywhere from 2-4 people for an hour each day. I was keeping up with the dichlor daily, in the range of approx 3 ppm. BTW, I am using strips for quick testing, and i also have a titration (drops) tester also that I use when needed or at least every few days. With the heavy bather load over the holidays, I think I may have gotten behind on the clorine demand, which caused the cloudy water.......I think. Anyway........shocked the tub with MPS, and the tub was still cloudy, maybe worse. Then I superclorinated the tub to 10 PPM, and the water was still cloudy.......not worse, but not any better. Shocked it again...........still nothing. Hmmm......... After a few days of this , and starting to get frustrated because we cant use our new tub (that we somehow cant live without now, even though we have never had one before, lol) I decided to flush, then drain and refill and start fresh. Maybe it needed it after out hot tub party week of sorts, lol ! Filled it it up fresh again (good city water), then adjusted my levels. Needed some baking soda to raise the alk, and used some soda ash to raise the ph a little more. Now I am good with that PH is 7.6, alk is about 100. New filter installed. Aslo added the biozorb roll in the skimmer. Now what sanitiation route to go with............. Wanted to switch to bromine for ease of use but holding on that for now. Decide to go with the Nature 2 route (which I already had on hand). Installed the nature 2 stick then added some dichlor to start th stick up. Now comes the questions..............there are 3 options to go with so far as I have been told with the nature 2 system. (BTW, we have no sensitivity problems with clorine at all). Method 1 . Add Dichlor to activate Just add MPS after every use and when needed. Shock every week with dichlor. Method 2. Add Dichlor to activate. Just add Dichlor after every use and when needed. Shock every week with MPS. Method 3. Strangest option that came from the dealer on how to use the Nature 2. Add Dichlor to activate. Just add Dichlor, and MPS on alternating days, then shock when needed with dichlor or MPS. So far I have only "Add Dichlor to activate nature 2 stick). Clorine levels are a bit high still.........about 8ppm, but dropping slowly. Water is crystal clear, and want to keep it that way. What would you recommend next ? What Method would be the best ? I do want to give th nature 2 a try, and dont mind keeping my clorine levels at a low rate of .5 to 1 ppm, for safety and what nature 2 calls for. What method above would be th best for the nature 2, and for high bather load. (why do i have the feeling that everyone is going to say ditch the stick, lol) Thanks in advance !!!! waterl0gged.