hlwimmer

Hello! We had a new pool installed by a builder which... sometimes is prompt in responses. I've asked him, but his answer is: "I'll let Jandy know..." The Jandy JXi heater was put into service in Sept 2018 -- so it's about 6mos old. When the pool was "tested" everything seemed OK and it didn't make this noise... now it's quite noisy. Link to video: https://www.dropbox.com/s/cnjv9a8bygvwyzy/pump-noise.m4v?dl=0 Thanks for any insight you can lend

Hello: We've gotten the pool built and up/running thanks to help from a lot of folks — including folks on this board... thanks again. We're about to build a pricey deck around the pool and in doing so, have discovered the pool is 3/4in off level side to side. It's something that you can notice while in the water and we certainly don't want to build a sloped deck. The pool is a very small (8x12x4 @ 2500gal) metal walled square pool. It presently has a vinyl liner which isn't terrible, but the liner doesn't fit well in the (square) corners. The best/easiest way to fix the level problem pre-deck is to remove the liner, level the track itself with blocking and shims and re-hang the liner. i could put foam (or wood, someone suggested) 45deg blocks in the corners to fill out the gaps where the liner gaps. this would proved a serviceable and somewhat straightforward fix. However, my dealer wants to charge me almost $1200 for the liner (a known, exorbitant markup -- the previous invoice shows it cost him $550). This got me thinking about other solutions, specifically tile — which I would be very happy with if I could get it to work (it would fit well with the space and style). I wouldn't mind the extra cost if it worked (was waterproof). I'm looking at ways to waterproof the pool as well as retrofit the returns and skimmer to accommodate. This is where you come in (hopefully): Idea #1 (From the CustomBuilding tech rep): Adhere CrackBuster membrane film to the metal walls. Tape and mortar the joints. Use RedGard to coat the floor and joints and hang tile. Idea #2: Affix 1/4in Hardiebacker to the walls with adhesive and a few screws making the entire surround cementitious. Coat the entire surround with RedGard or similar wet-applied membrane. Hang tile. Idea #3: Prep as above. Instead of Redgard, use Kerdi mortar-applied membrane. Hang Tile. Idea #4: Smilar to the above, but use Kerdiboard which has the Kerdi membrane pre-applied. (This is likely my favorite idea as the Kerdiboard would be slightly insulated and impervious to water altogether... However, the Kerdi is less "foolproof" than RedGard The biggest question would be how to retrofit the skimmer and 2 returns, but I'm sure there's a way using fittings for a gunite/concrete pool. So... Am I crazy? Thoughts, suggestions or warnings? Any alternate (likely more pool-specific) ideas? Any wisdom would be appreciated. You can see I'm very much in the mindset of "bath" more than "pool". Thanks. If you're interested, here's a picture of the shell: http://redneckmodern.typepad.com/redneckmodern/2012/08/new-.html#more

Hayward says warranty on parts only ... labor "would be at my expense". Worst. Warranty. Ever.

I've also updated the post with the receipt from Amazon... Hopefully Hayward will "do the right thing" and replace the part. Getting it out will be a PITA, but...

thanks, pool clown. "that's the armature"... pardon the newbie-ness, but i'm guessing you're saying the noise i'm experiencing is something internal with the motor. could you confirm? (thanks). the entire pump assembly is less than 6mos old (purchased in june and put into service in september) -- so if it's a hardware problem, i'd like to see if hayward would step up to replace the pump entirely.

Update: I tried to clean out the impeller, but either (1) it was clear or (2) I couldn't get to anything. Then I noticed that a dust seal was lose. I took a picture and video linked at the below blog post. http://redneckmodern.typepad.com/redneckmodern/2012/12/pool-pump-noise.html

thank you, legsonearth. i should note that i meant, in specific terms, could the temps be effecting the impeller -- not the pump itself (or motor) like many pumps, it's two parts: the pump motor and impeller housing -- the shaft between them is exposed. no water leaking whatsoever. the sound does sound like it's coming from the impeller housing, so i'm guessing this is the likely culprit (something stuck in there). however, it's worth noting that there is still quite a bit of flow happening and little/no cativation... however, the sound is similar to the dry pump start-up before you get to full flow. generally, the pump quiets down significantly once it achieves full flow. i'll try to feel around for clogs -- good call there. is there a way to investigate further without complete disassembly? i can fairly easily remove the pump, but would rather not disconnect the power if i don't have to. you can see the setup in the last picture here: http://redneckmodern.typepad.com/redneckmodern/2012/09/pool-pix.html thanks again. damn cedar tree.

hello: we're still a bit new to the pool-world and this is our first winter with our very small (3K gal) in-ground pool. pump = hayward power-flow2 (1/2HP, self-priming)... the pool is 1/2 in ground and the pump sits right at water level. we're in northern california and it never really freezes -- presently the water temps are cold (mid-40s), but it's been on the cold side the past week. the water has likely dropped 10deg in the past few days. today when the pump kicked on, i noticed it was making quite a bit more noise than usual (25% more?) -- sort of like if you had a small hole in the muffler of a car -- a vibration sound (not really grinding/squealing) that was loud enough to get me out of my chair to investigate. previously it was very, very quiet. everything seems to be running fine. the pump is in an enclosed closet, so it sees no weather (and is fairly warm being adjacent to the house and sharing space with the hot-water heater) and it's less than 6mos old (new install of pool). i cleaned out the pump filter basket -- it was not full, but had a small handful of cedar needles and small leaves not caught by the skimmer. i also hosed out the cartridge filter which also had a few needles/leaves and tan dust which washed away easily, so some small debris did make it past the skimmer and basket. i hooked it all back up and bled the air out and it was still noisy -- no real change. all connections are tight and the pump is securely fastened to the ground. what are the chances that the noise is simply due to the cooler water causing contraction in the pump mechanism? trouble with the leaves/needles that passed through? other thoughts? thanks for any wisdom you can lend.

I wanted to close out this thread for anyone who might have the same issue (odd as it is). The unit was indeed mis-labaled at the factory (confired by Hayward) -- it was a 11KW heater in a chassis (and box) labelled 5.5KW. As noted above and shown in the photos, the /only/ difference as confirmed by Hayward tech support is that the 11KW has 2 heater coils and the 5.5KW has one. In the 5.5KW model, the hole for the 2nd coil is plugged with a threaded stopper... In The Swim was kind enough to offer a refund/swap, but I've decided to keep the 11KW model and simply disconnect the 2nd coil and leave the other as an extra should the first one ever burn out. It was a 5min disconnection and something easy to get to, especially if you're already in there connecting power. The 5.5KW is running wonderfully on a 30A breaker and -- with the help of a cheap solar cover -- took the water to 85 deg (it's a small pool -- not a spa) easily. So, anyone shopping for these -- the price for the 11KW is often lower (greater supply?), so you might as well buy it and have the spare part if needed.

Interestingly enough, I did some digging today. Box is labelled 5.5KW. Chassis is labelled 5.5KW... open up the heater and there are TWO elements. The diagrams indicate that two elements are the 11KW model -- no wonder it's popping the GFCI. It seems the guts and chassis were mis-labelled... see pix: http://www.hlwimmer.com/hayward.jpg ...

thanks for the replies. i've a call into my electrician to sleuth it out (he's on vacation) and i've another heater on order just in case... unfortunately, i can finalize the inspections with a goofy heater, so it needs to get fixed -- plus the water is cold! ... as far as measuring and testing the breaker, i'll rely on the electrician to do that because it's under warranty. if it's a bad heater, we'll swap it out. the electrician did the calcs for the breaker and if it's undersized, he'd be on the hook for replacing it, too, hopefully.

Hello: We've recently installed a semi-in-ground pool and I'm looking at the skimmer and there's a port in the back -- presumably for overflow (or it could be). It's not popped out from the factory, but there's a 3/4in collar and it's at about the right height for such an overflow. Has anyone plumbed this? Success? Stories? With out pool being small and having no real way to otherwise automatically monitor levels, having this functional would be nice.

Hi: We just completed our spa/pool (a really small pool in actuality -- 2.5K gal) and all seems to be working well except the Hayward heater. It turns on; the light glows; it's hard to tell if it's heating, though; but within 5 minutes of start-up, it pops the GFCI. It doesn't pop immediately and if the breaker is reset, it will pop again in 1/2 the time of initial start-up (in about 3 minutes) and will do so consistently with each reset. The new subpanel pulled from main and 240V 30A GFCI circuit (the heater is the only thing on this circuit) was installed by a competent electrician (who is on vacation this week -- this the note here). The pump and salt chlorinator are on a separate 15A GFCI circuit in the same subpanel and are doing fine. Any idea as to what could be causing the GFCI to pop? Heater? Connections?

thanks again for the wisdom. re: backfill: limestone isn't as available in my area, but the crew brought over a few yards of crushed granite which should serve the purpose well for the immediate backfill. we will need to use /some/ dirt to fill in the ramp created by the bobcat, but the bulk of the backfill will be stone. if for some reason crushed granite would be a terrible idea, please let me know... too, because the are surrounding the pool will be under a wooden deck (and the earth beneath that covered in pea gravel, some settling won't be too troublesome. the piers for the deck will be sunk in solid. the existing sonotubes are resting son mechanically compacted DG with a ton of stabilizer mixed in... on top of undisturbed earth. the next few sonotubes/PVC will be sunk in a hole probably dug by an auger. you can see the rough post layout in the drawing in the blog post linked above. re: concrete: fortunately, the "beam" will be below the backfill, so any cracks -- as long as still somewhat secure -- will be fine. i think the beam is just to help lock everything in together and with a pool as small as mine, i'd wager even fencepost concrete would suffice, but we'll bring in a truck and some wheel barrows. re: sonotubes... thanks. they weren't that much ($6?) but i can see how a 4in tube might work well and use less concrete, too. might think about that for the remaining posts. thanks again... much appreciated.

thanks for the input. re: freezing: true, we almost never freeze (concord, CA: bit.ly/MAi7YG ). another bonus is that the pump and filter will be in an interior utility room shared by 2 other heat-producing devices (radiant heat boiler and hot-water heater) so the room stays quite warm in the winter... so 15% of the piping will be very-well protected. it'll also be a salt system which will drop the freeze point a slight bit... so, i'm not worried about freezing as much (and can winterize). i'm more worried about movement and potential for leakage. i do plan on horizontally supporting the longest bits with "legs", too, by using 2in Ts slipped around the 1.5in pipe with drop down legs to the solid DG... the backfill process might get "jiggly" and these could help stabilize things a bit. re: backfill: yes, there is an overdig and we're not yet to backfill. we'll be pouring a concrete collar for sure (required per instructions), but there was no mention of backfill material. we were going to use a good bit of the excess soil, but can put gravel/limestone closer to the walls themselves. what's the reason for this? drainage? we'll have a deck/platform around the pool, so we'll need to put the posts in something relatively solid. i have sonotubes down to the compacted DG most adjacent to the pool. the other posts will be 2-3 feet out. thanks again for you input... i hope to really get the project going today as soon as my laborers show up (literally momentarily).

anyone?

hello: the progress of our semi-in-ground steel-walled, vinyl lined pool is coming along. the 4ft deep pool is 3ft in the ground with 1ft exposed -- we're building a low platform/deck around it all. we have the structure assembled and i'm plumbing it now. due to the way everything is braced and laid out, i have two options for the return lines -- the first being way easier (and how i have it set up now). i should mention, we're in northern california. it rarely dips below 30deg and the ground has never frozen. 1: the method with the fewest bends and least amount of level changes will put the 1-1/2 rigid SCH40 PVC return pipes only about 6in under ground -- this area will be under the deck, but there won't be a lot of earth surrounding them. does this matter? 2: i can lower the pipes about 18in. this will put them much deeper in the ground, but necessitate more level changes. it also means that if there's a problem, i'll have to dig. the benefit to deeper pipes, i'm guessing, would be stability (less movement = encased in dirt) plus a little insulation for sound and temps. the suction line, due to the layout (and skimmer height), has the pipes about 12-14in under ground. wisdom for the return lines would be much appreciated. if having the pipes securely in the ground is a good tradeoff for fewer bends and level changes, i can modify the layout. here's a link to a blog post with photos. in the latest photos, the top of the sono-tubes will be ground level... scroll down to the most recent bits. http://redneckmodern...-pool-plan.html

Some recent back/forth with our planned pool vendor have left me feeling less than confident in their ability to supply our needs -- you'd think that my willingness for fork over nearly $5K would be incentive enough for a vendor to care, but... I'm now looking for other kit-pool suppliers (jus tin case) out there and hoping the community can chime in. Since we've excavated based on the other vendor's specs, it needs to be: 8X12X48in (48in walls) with square corners. There are some folks that can build a 42in wall, but ideally, we need 48in... Poly-walls, steel-walls, layered walls... all are up for consideration. Thanks in advance for any links/sources you can provide. So far, I've looked at: http://www.medallionpools.com/ ... they can only go to 42in. http://radiantpools.com/ ... out of state, but they might be my #2 choice. http://ezpanelpool.com/ ... fixed size won't really work (too big @ 9X13).

fwiw: being in the planning process ourselves... it seems a rectangle will be easer to cover than an L -- especially with an automatic cover. you'll likely use a track-running cover more (i.e.: be more prone to close it for safety) than a "spiderweb" one because of the easier operation... and since you're planning now (although they aren't cheap), an under deck track is pretty slick. good luck with the project.

wow. thanks, waterbear. re: bbb/salt: there's certainly a lot to learn insofar as chemistry, but i geek out on that stuff, so it should be ok. i'm a very hands-on learner and once things are up and running it will be easier to visualize/conceptualize the balances... but the first step there will be to get it set up properly and your thumbs-up for the T3-aquarite is comforting. since the salt system needs to start with a balanced pool, my thinking is to hire-out for help for an initial set-up/balance and take it from there. i'll aim for the method which is the least time-intensive (or ability to be automated) more than one that shaves costs. i'm also thinking of "investing" in the aquarite-pro in the case that i do want to add automation in the future... the extra $100 there might be worth it to have that option. re: cart-squirt: while the machines will indeed be in a closet, a little water is fine since it won't need to be diverted to waste. a full backwash would be impractical, tho. re: swim-current: my wife wisely put the kibosh on the additional $3-6K swimspa jets... i've finally heard back from the kit-builder, so hopefully i can get the order in and have this erected in a few weeks. the biggest "hmmm" right now is the idea to coat the back (or even the insides) of the galvanized shell to prevent as much rust as possible. the pool (kafko) is made to go into the ground, but if $200 in auto underbody coating gives me 10% longer shell life, it'd be worth it at this stage... thoughts?

hi dave: yes, it's essentially a swim-spa without the current -- i'm not a swimmer, per se, but i love the water (lounging, etc). it started as an interest in endless-pools "waterwell" (which is a bit too expensive for what it is) and evolved into this small pool. at one point, we were even entertaining a HUGE (10ft diameter) cedar tub, but the yard can't accommodate the width and it was a bit pricey. "BTW I'm running this on the lines of a dichlor/beach spa" ... i'm not following you here. could you rephrase?

excellent, thanks, scott. ... yes, the pool and equipment will be bonded. the pool is permitted and bonding is high on the inspector's list. even the water with the curved bit of metal that you put in the skimmer. fortunately, he doesn't want/need to see the wooden deck bonded, but any metal (ladder, etc.) will be bonded. ... good to know the PF2 will work. if something goes south, i'll likely just replace the motor -- it was relatively inexpensive. ... presently, the pool is permitted/designed without a drain. if i can get it inspected and passed before the liner goes in, i might contemplate a bottom drain or a low drain on an adjacent wall to the skimmer. ... presently, i'm thinking a salt-cell would be nice. the hayward aquarite and aquarite-pro seem to be able to be run on 1.5in piping which is good. good to know, too, that it's an "hours of use" thing with the salt cell. hopefully with my shorter filter times, it will last even longer. ... definitely planning a 3-way valve (or simply a T with an outlet -- many neighbors have a spigot) for drainage after the filter for the rainy season. ... good point about cartridge size. the pool is small (2.5Kgal at most) and presently i have a 250SF filter. i might look into a 400SF. ... the pool is made by kafko and designed to be buried. i'm also looking to my engineering friends (my wife is a structural engineer and coated rebar is her game) to see if there's a coating -- even autobody undercoating -- that can be sprayed to reduce corrosion in-ground. with a salt cell, i'm a bit worried about a liner leak and the salt corroding the galv. steel... maybe i'll epoxy paint the inside. i plan on using the thin foam on the walls and floor, too.... i'm pretty sure the pool has a beaded liner coping that will be added to the top of the panels. thanks, again... hopefully the pool guys will return from vacation next week so i can finalize my order.

thanks, waterbear: i've been reading a few of your re:s in the chemistry section -- thanks for the input. re: filter... given the location (a small utility closet) and lack of immediate access to a wastewater drain, the cart-filter made the most sense. while i can remove the filter and wash elsewhere, CA regs require any pool drainage be into a sewer (not stormwater) drain -- specifically going to the main cleanout (not through house piping). overall size/space is also a factor as the closet isn't huge and the cart-filters seem to be smaller in physical size. re: maintenance... while i'm no slacker (re-built our MCM house with my bare hands [ http://www.redneckmodern.com -- pool plans there, too]), i'm apt to fall into project rabbit holes and emerge days later, so //required daily// maintenance will be tough. this was one of the considerations for the SWCG. re: pentair SWCGs ... i'm reading that they should be installed on a 2in line. my lines -- as planned -- will be 1.5in... a problem? the "above ground" pool version (IC15) looks tempting since it has a lower output (only 3X what i need as opposed to 8X) and a simpler installation. so... longevity of the SWCG cell. on a smaller pool would one expect the cell to last longer or is it a fixed lifespan no matter the volume? other notes: ... the pool is a steel-wall, vinyl lined pool. any concerns about wall corrosion with a SWCG or is the liner protection enough? thoughs on overall reduced lifespan of the pool walls with a SWCG? ... per reading the other threads on mineral sanitization, that's completely out. no N2... ... i already have the taylor k-2006 in my amazon shopping cart. ... any news on the autopilot SWCGs? ... the manifold design is ingenious (i guess the vertical, space-saving design could be incorporated in other installs)

Excellent -- thanks. -- re: Drain pots... We've already been though code-review with the current design, so, this addition is unlikely and a bit more difficult to add in the vinyl-lined sand-bottom pool. Essentially, it's a swim-spa without the current -- pretty low-fi, but most of thee units use a spa-pack and skimfilter set-up. I was worried about the single point of suction, but curiously enough, I went to a friend's house with a pool 5X the size and he has only one point of suction and one return and it has been working amazingly well. It was encouraging to see/hear his results. -- re: Pump... We presently have a Hayward PowerFlow2 (1/2HP), which is a self-priming pump. This would work, no? If not, why?

Hello: We're currently building (DIY as best we can) a super small 8X12X4 vinyl lined pool. As planned, it will have one suction (skimmer only) and two returns and will be powered by a Hayward Powerflow2 (1/2HP) pump fed to a 250SF Hayward cartridge filter. It will be plumbed with 1.5in lines and sit 2/3s of the way in ground with a low deck surrounding it. I'm planning the plumbing for potential (future) roof-top solar and electric heat. (First question: Thoughts on the overall equipment set-up? We're now thinking of the type of sanitization we need: tri-chlor, bromine, salt-cell, ionizer, etc... the main contenders are trichlor (potentially with a Nature2 add-on) via a small inline feeder or salt-cell. Perhaps this is a question for the Sanitization board, but it involves equipment, so here goes... The problem with all of these is that they seem to be designed for (or optimized for) very large pools (15-40K gallons) and I'm at a loss as to what would be appropriate for our new, very small pool. The goal is to have something low-maintenance and easy. Since it's our first pool, making it easy as possible trumps saving costs. We're not opposed to any chemicals or processes, but would rather not buy into snake-oil or gizmos that will be unrepairable or useless in 3 years. My thoughts... Chlorine: Since the pool is small, it shouldn't take a ton of chemicals anyway. I was thinking a 4.2lb Hayward inline feeder with trichlor tabs would be straightforward. I /do/ however, want to protect my (black) vinyl liner from damage or bleaching, so i'd love to use as little as possible Nature2: Of the "miracle" cures, this one seems to have stuck around the longest and claims to allows me to use less chlorine. True? the CF or Express models seems like they could work for my setup, but unsure of the efficacy. Salt-chlorination: Undoubtedly, on larger pools, the payback is more but the same $800 system seems sized to treat a 15-40K pool... 3X to 8X my need. granted if the salt cell would last 3X to 8X longer on my teeny pool, it might prove worth it, but i'm unsure of that. The draw here is ease more than chemical-cost-savings, but is it really "easier" and less time consuming? Any wisdom would be most appreciated... thanks.