bluebutterfly

Hi all, Here's my problem: It has a bit of history behind it, so please forgive the long post. For the first time, I decided to clean my pool cartridges myself this season, because it costs $50 for the pool guy to do it, so I decided to do it myself and save a few bucks. It's a standard Hayward filter, with four cartridges. I took the lid off, took the bracket off, took the filters out, cleaned them, put them back in, put the bracket back on, and tightened the bracket up good and snug. When I went to turn the pool pump on, I got no to minimal suction. Naturally, I thought I'd done something wrong, so took the filter lid off again, put it back on, etc.. Still no suction to clean the pool at the skimmer. Called the pool guy. He said he thought there was a clog somewhere. He used his c02 to blow it out at the intermediate filter leaf catcher. Then used his co2 to blow it out at the skimmer. Still nothing. I kept asking him why this has happened simply because I cleaned the cartridges. He didn't know, he kept saying somehow or other, something must have been washed into a pipe or gotten clogged. He never took the filter lid off to check the filters or check to make sure there wasn't anything wrong inside the canister, because he said in his opinion, it wasn't a filter problem, it was a clog problem. He gave up. He didn't charge me anything. All he could do was give me the name of a contractor who could come out and maybe unclog it with his equipment and if not, might have to dig up the concrete pad or go underneath the soil to hunt for this clog or whatever. He also noted that some of the valves (Jandy and spa valve) looked like they had been turned in the wrong direction, possibly by me during the filter cleaning. He set them in what he said was the proper place and left. Prior to cleaning, the pool was running fine, I had a bit of diminished suction at the skimmer for vacuuming, but that was to be expected because the filters were super clogged. I have a huge pine tree over my pool that dumps a ton of debris into it, and thus the filters were badly clogged. They hadn't been cleaned since he did it last year. Anyway, after he left, I played around with the valves back and forth and after a few minutes, heard a "whoosh" and the "clog" unclogged and I got full flow and normal suction. yay! or so I thought..... After a few weeks, and into the hot summer months, I noticed that I was adding water to the pool a lot more frequently than I normally do, even with summer evaporation. After the pump turned off, the spa level would be down almost below the return. The pool would also look down to the point that I had to add water or the motor would be sucking air. I have researched this situation and the only thing I've found is that possibly a "check valve" is bad, and is allowing spa water to flow back into the pool and that's why the spa level goes down when the pump goes off. I don't think I even have a "check valve" on my equipment, or at least nothing that looks like a check valve on a youtube video I looked at. I have only two movable valves - the black Jandy valve and an Ortega spa flow valve that controls the strength of the water coming into the spa. Here's what's so weird about all this: all of these problems started when I cleaned my cartridge filters. Prior to that, all was well (except for a bit of diminished suction for vacuuming due to all the pine needles clogging up the filter). As soon as I cleaned the filters, all this nonsense started - the "clog" (that I unclogged with turning the valves back and forth which somehow got the prime started again and water flowing)....and now the loss of water from the spa into the pool. So, should I have my pool guy check the valves? I'm mystified at this point! Thanks for any help/feedback!

I have the money to own and upkeep a spa - the reason I have money is because I don't throw money at everything that comes along, so I'm MORE than financially able to take care of it. Thus, I carefully budget which is something more people in this country need to learn how to do to keep from being ripped off. I will still always hunt for a good deal, (ie. a fair deal that works for me), whether it be with chemicals, equipment or anything else. Since getting into the spa purchase, I have noticed the obscene prices charged for various accessories related to spas which just proves that the manufacturers of this stuff think that anyone "rich" enough to own a spa will pay a ridiculous price for anything. I didn't get where i am by being stupid with money. I went over my budget by about 1K which I didn't like doing but the only option was buy used which I decided was not a wise move. So far, i am happy with my purchase and feel that Costco will back me up if there's problems down the line. I want to add that the issue related to the tub being too deep for my height has proven to be a non-problem and I'm adjusting fine by keeping the water a bit lower than I had it (but within proper limits). At this point, I'm looking for a safety handrail because I've found getting in and out is a bit difficult. little by little, I hope to have it set up to suit my needs.

this is an update on my Costco hot tub. It arrived a couple of days ago via curbside delivery. It was packed very well. I had a hot tub mover bring it onto my patio. It's a basic round plug and play tub, 5 person seating, 18 jets. So far, so good. I filled it, plugged it in yesterday afternoon around 2 pm and this morning 9 am it's 102 degrees, so the heating has been about what I expected due to the 110 volt power. Actually a little better, as I've heard people warn that it might take 2-3 days to heat up at 110V. But that's certainly not been my experience. Many factors are involved, including the ambient temp, wind, etc. So, don't let anyone scare you off of a 110 volt tub if that's all you can afford without doing a major electrical job. The jets aren't super strong but I didn't want that anyway. Gives me enough jet action for my uses. It's under a patio cover so that also helps prevent sun damage. The company/manufacturer has not delivered the spa steps yet so not pleased with that and not getting any email response to my request for info. But I will get that settled soon and i'm sure Costco will be a help in speeding up the resolution of this problem. As for unexpected issues, I noticed that the electric cord on this tub is very short....I haven't measured it, but looks to be only about 3-4 feet long, so that pretty much dictated where i plugged it in (a lot closer to the outlet than I would have liked). Makes me a bit nervous to have water so close, so not thrilled with that. The length of the cord wasn't given in the online specs nor is it given in the user's manual. So, newbies beware and ask about cord length, as it may impact where you need to place your spa. This tub runs fairly quietly which is nice, sort of a low hum. However, I have it placed in an area where it doesn't impact me. If it were right under a bedroom window or near a neighbor's fence, even this low hum would be annoying. But that's something one must keep in mind with any type of equipment, hot tub, pool, etc. So, I have no complaint about the hum, any machinery is going to make some level of noise to function. Just bear in mind the placement, not only for your own personal comfort but be a good neighbor and don't put a hot tub right up near somebody's fence or their window. Another surprise, is again the importance of wet testing as so many on this forum have emphasized. YES YES YES. I had looked at a few tubs (dry) in a retail store and said to the salesperson, 'These tubs look very deep, I'm not very tall, the water may be over my chin!" He blew it off, but I was aware that it might be a problem. When this tub was delivered, it indeed was deeper than I thought. It's only 33.5 high but it's all about the bench placement. So, I may have to buy a spa booster cushion to help out. But that's not a knock against this tub, short people will run into this problem with many many models of tubs. So, live and learn. I'm just trying to point out to potential new buyers of tubs to wet test if you at all can. In my area, there was no one willing to wet test, period. That really sucked. At the very least, try to get into a tub dry and estimate where the water line would be, if you are short. Five feet three and under, you could experience the problems I am having with needing a boost. The cover that came with the tub seems standard....pretty heavy for me to lift though. So, that's a learning experience too. I'll either have to figure out something else or get a lift. Not sure yet. That's the report so far. I am still very glad I ordered through Costco because if things start going wrong, I know there's a way to return without a huge hassle. Time will tell if things continue to be fine. I just wanted to check in with you all and update. Thanks again, this is a super informative forum and a big big help to us hot tub newbies!

thanks for the info about access into the spa. Someone who reviewed the Aquaterra at the Costco site said that it "had no access door" when they were having problems with a leak and sent the spa back to Costco. But I suspect that they gave up a bit too early on investigating the situation. It may be that they didn't readily see a "door" as such and assumed there was no access at all into the cabinet, which didn't make any sense to me, as it has to have some type of access. True, it's fully foamed inside and may not be repairable easily if a leak is deep inside somewhere, but I do feel people panic at times and give up and return stuff without giving products a fair chance, especially immediately after shpment when fittings can become loose and simply need tightening or adjustment.

the dealer had indicated that he would have to change the pump on the LA Spa if I wanted to make it usable for 110volt. (i.e. it was not convertible, had to be a pump change to smaller pump). That factor among others was worriesome so have pretty much decided against the used LA Spa through the dealer. Unless something else comes up, I probably will go with the Aquaterra Newporter tub thru Costco. In looking at the photo of that tub, I don't see an access area/door depicted. Some doors are accessible with a key, some are held on with screws that can be pretty difficult to get off and on. So, I will probably call Aquaterra manufacturing (Ontario, California) how the access area works on that model. I read the online manual and it gave no info about door access. It refers to looking in the assembly compartment immediately after shipment to insure that all fittings are tight, but they provide no diagram for doing so. It is fully foamed so I'm aware that if there's a leak, fixing it or even finding the leak would be near impossible (that's when it would get returned to Costco, if there's leaking that can't be solved easily) I'm sure I'll have my work cut out for me in learning about these things, but that would apply to any tub, and it looks lik Aquaterra's phone support is pretty good from customer reviews. We shall see! thanks again for your support/feedback. I will report back and let everyone know how it goes, good or bad!

you've all been really great to respond to my concerns. I certainly appreciate it. While I would love to save the money buying used, I tend to keep leaning toward the Costco option because it is 110V, and because I have not been able to wet test anything. To answer another post, in Vegas there indeed have been a lot of spa dealers go out of business. When i first started looking, i went thru the phone book and number after number had been disconnected. Sad but true. So, it's been a far bigger challenge than i would have thought. Maybe there's something lurking here in town that's perfect for me, but I want to buy something before the summer so I can start enjoying and have a nice time. I have been in an inground spa attached to a pool but that would be a far different experience than above ground portable spas with the various options. I always enjoyed the inground spas at hotels and a friend's pool, - those just had hot water and swirling waters but nothing targeted for hydrotherapy per se. They felt good, relaxing and all I really needed. So, for me the smaller round tub would seem to perhaps give me what I need. The Costco tub is also convertible to 220 which does give me the option to upgrade the heating albeit with electrical expense. I'm hoping in my particular very hot climate I'll be able to do okay without the 220 heating. Yes, it was my understanding that the Aquaterra was related to Freeflow...or even had some simiilarities to Hotspring. .I had originally been looking for a Freeflow, but they only sell through dealers and so far there are no local Freeflow dealers in Vegas. So, my only option was to look online. Going through Costco sort of allows me to wet test. This does not mean I would be unethical and return a spa on a whim or for no good reason or wait 3 yrs to do so. I would know within 6 mos or sooner if this hot tub wasn't for me. I doubt the dealer I talked to today would take a used tub back within the 90 days for any reason other than a repair issue which is certainly his prerogative, whereas I do think Costco will do so if I simply don't mesh well with the product itself. Of course, one has to be a member of Costco to get these benefits ($55 per yr) and keep the membership active to take advantage of these return policies, so I have to factor a Costco membership into this equation also. I'll have to view that as a sort of extra warranty protection. (I am not currently a Costco member) I absolutely agree that wet testing is very important. Luckily I don't want a lounger (while I think they are perhaps nice, it restricts a more relaxed, chilling out atmosphere which is really what I enjoy most). And I actually felt a lot of hydrotherapy from the inground hotel spas I've been in - invigorating without my muscles being blasted or pummeled by numerous jets coming at me. Again, if someone wants that, that's fine. But I have greatly enjoyed just having whirling jetted water in a typical hotel spa.. For me, I think HEAT is more important than the power of the jets. I love the hot water even in hot weather. Some people find that odd that I would want hot water here in Vegas when it's 105 in July, but I do (esp. at night) So, if water temp becomes an issue, I will upgrade the Costco tub to 220. I also suspect the LA Spa may be a somewhat overall better spa - the jet nozzles were hard rubber, not cheapo plastic stuff. So, I'm sure there's quality aspects and Costco is noted for cutting corners on things. The bottom portion of the spa that the dealer showed me looked a bit rough. I didn't examine it closely, maybe just cosmetic but I wonder what type of surface it had been on. So, I was wary of that also. Thanks again, I'll let you know my ultimate choice and how it all goes!

i know this is an old threat but wanted to add my experiences. I asked one dealer about wet testing and he said that if he did that, the tub would be considered "used" and he simply didn't have the resources or ability to wet test the tubs. I asked how a consumer was supposed to be able to buy with confidence, with such a big ticket item, only to get it home and not like the feel of the tub? He said that if it's within warranty, he would take it back if the customer didn't like it after using it. So, that was his way of handling the wet test situation. I do see the dealer's side of it...I also see the buyer/consumer's side. I think the best way is as some have described, to set up one day a week for wet test and let people know they can come in for that appointed time to try out a spa. However, most will probably show their high end spas and not set up the cheaper ones. So, many times you're still buying an unknown unless you have friends or family with the same model and already know what it feels like. Hopefully most dealers will let you return it if you simply hate the feel of it (within the warranty period). I would think the best way to wet test is contacting private sellers through Craigslist who are selling used tubs that are up and running and try them out that way. Other than that, it may be hard to always wet test the exact brand of spa you are interested in buying. Makes it difficult!

Thanks for checking on these in order of your list of preference....I have seen those listings ....one is all the way over in Henderson, which is a little far for me...I'd rather stick with someone here in town. Also easier to arrange delivery if nearer my immediate area. The Sundance Cameo does look too big, it also would absolutely need 220 wiring, which I do not have. It also has redwood siding which I want to avoid. The siding in the pic looks somewhat beat up. One of the benefits of the Costco plug n play tub I'm considering is that it's 110 but can be converted to 220. I may not even need 220 if it heats okay and holds the heat in this climate. So, I'm trying to avoid the expensive wiring//electrical bills. The dealer I talked to today says he might be able to put in a smaller pump in the used spa he showed me that would work on my 110volt, although we really didn't get into an extensive discussion of that or how much he would add on to price to do that for me. The Cal Spa also looked too big. Again, with a used spa from a private party there is zero support, warranty or anything of any kind. If I do buy a used spa, it would be from a dealer who at least can give me some type of warranty, some assistance in setup, maintenance, repair, for awhile. But thank you for checking it out....I've looked thru every listing at Craigslist and don't feel confident about buying used, plus there really hasn't been anything I've seen there that looked like what I wanted.

thanks so much for all the input, it is very appreciated. Here's the latest. I went to a dealer today (one of the few who are still in business after the economy fell out of Vegas), and he had a used LA Spa, Mountain series for $1900 plus $150 delivery. 90 day warranty. It included a cover (also used). It was not filled with water or running, as he has said that once he does that, it's considered "used". Although this one IS used lol...anyway, he doesn't wet test tubs at his place, so that's just the way it goes there. I have heard some not great things about LA spas, and don't know anything about the Mountain series. He said the spa is about 2 yrs old and had been owned by a lady who lost her home in foreclosure and he bought it from her. Used one time or very little. I liked the size of the spa, and the seating. It was the type of thing I wanted BUT, I am still wary of buying used. He made a valid point that after the 90 day warranty, even if I had to put $$ into repairs, I'd still be ahead of the game. I suppose it would depend on what type of repairs it was though. So, if it were you and you liked both tubs equally (the used LA spa Mountain series for 1900 plus 150 delivery), vs. the 3K Aquaterra Newporter plug n play new from Costco with 1 yr parts/labor, 5 yr shell warranty, free delivery and rather liberal return policy, which would you pick? The Aquaterra is a round tub, has a nice whirpool jet feature that I liked (online anyway lol), but apart from that, both are really unknowns to me. It would be nice to save 1K and go with the used tub with the 90 day warranty and take my chances on future repair issues, but I truly don't know. The LA spa is not fully foamed vs the Aquaterra which is. My understanding is that fully foamed holds heat better but it's harder to fix when there's a leak. Everyone here has great ideas and feedback so if you'd like to add more on this, please feel free! Thanks so much!

I'm sure there is a lot of good in what you say about dealers, but when there doesn't seem to be much of a choice in my local area, I don't feel it's a good idea for me to restrict myself to higher priced dealers selling tubs I don't want just so I can buy from a dealer. True, I wouldn't feel comfortable buying from a no name discount online outlet, but it's not worth 3-4K and upwards more to get dealer support. If the product is good, I wouldn't need a lot of support. If the product is bad and I can return it within a legit context as Costco seems to present to buyers (as long as the return isn't abused or sent back on a whim when the warranty is up), then I feel that's a viable alternative for me. I think the spa business is evolving to take into account the online buying world and if I can buy a tub for less that may be good enough to suit my needs (and if not, I can return it), then why not go for that? For those who feel they have good choices in their local area and really good dealers who will give them lots of price range within their budget and good support, then that's best for them. Every scenario is different. I've read a few bad reviews re: a particular dealer here in town that made me wonder and made me wary. Not all dealers are so great or there to help, show up on time, arrange repair, give prompt service, etc. And even if they are great, I can't afford a 5k-6K (and up) hot tub. i was in a pool store here recently and mentioned on local place and a customer standing there said the dealer wanted to sell them a 10K hot tub. They said this with an air of real unhappiness and displeasure. So, if places like Costco pick up some business, there may be a reason. I'm not saying it'll work out, but it's an option for some of us out here. I haven't made a decision yet and may buy from a dealer if I can find something that is within reason, but I doubt that I can. And what about people who live in areas where there are NO dealers? Are they supposed to not buy at all? Even living in a large metro area like Vegas, I'm having a problem finding a scenario that works for me. If someone in a small town or rural area wants a hot tub, they almost have to order online or travel hundreds of miles to a larger city to buy.

I have looked on Craigslist for used spas, but most are older than what I want (usually five+ years old) and tend to be larger than what I am looking for. And of course, they have no warranty, no support, nothing. I have no real way to know what a "decent" tub really is, as I have no ability to evaluate it myself mechanically other than what the owner says. From what I see online when people buy used they immediately inherit quite a number of problems. True, if I found a "decent" Hotspring for $1500 (assuming it was the size, seating, etc. that I want), I know I'll be putting another $500 or more into it with problems down the line. With the Costco scenario, 2-3 yrs later, if the tub is a series of problems, Costco will take it back (yes, there may be hassle involved but still, I think they will take it back if it's been one headache after another). So, there's plus and minus on both ends of this scenario. I just don't feel qualified to go into someone's back yard and buy a used hot tub, no matter how "nice" or "decent" it looks on the outside. There is a dealer just outside Vegas who sells reconditioned hot tubs with a warranty, but my concern is where is this outlet going to be 2-3 yrs from now? When all his stock and inventory is sold and he's long gone? That seems to be the story of the hot tub biz (except for the long term established players and their stuff is out of my budget). Costco isn't going out of business any time soon, I figure they will be around 2-3 yrs from now when the tub leaks or falls apart on me. Makes more sense that buying something and being stuck down the line with a tub that failed in two years (or less). At least I will have gotten some enjoyment/use out of it (hopefully). More feedback is appreciated and welcomed...it's a tough decision with a lot of variables, not the least of which is the instability of the hot tub business here locally mixed with dealers wanting way more than I can afford. Here's the only scenario where buying used from a private party makes sense: if they are selling a large, super high-end tub that they bought for 10K and are getting rid of for 4K. Makes sense if that's the type of tub you want. I don't want or need a big, high end tub. The Costco Aquaterra Newporter is more what I am looking for. At 3K, brand new, with a super return policy, that seems to make more sense for me. The other scenario for buying used that makes sense is for someone who is a DIY mechanical person who can fix a very high end spa themselves and come out of it with a really great deal, a 7-8 person spa with all the bells and whistles. The rest of us who don't fit into that category really can't get that great a situation with buying used. Plus, I don't care to spend my summer fixing up a used spa when I can buy a reasonable priced spa under warranty.

Thanks. I may look at Costco a bit more....at least if it's a piece of junk, they'll take it back, no questions asked, so that's a big plus in this type of scenario. I don't live in a cold climate (Vegas) so the slower heating of the 110 volt probably won't be a big problem. As long as it's convertible to 220 when/if I decide to wire it that way for faster heating, that's important. I don't know if all plug and play spas are convertible - sometimes they indicate that in their ads, sometimes not. There is a Hotspring dealer in town here but as you say, the price is going to be a lot more than what I want to pay. And quite frankly, I've read plenty of horror stories about dealers who don't do what they promise and other nonsense to the point that I wonder why I should pay 4K and up to pay for the dealer's operations, advertising, overhead, and on and on. i realize the product is usually better from a dealer but is it really 2-3K better? Even if I had to replace various parts in a cheaper spa over time, I'd still be ahead of the game. I'm almost to the point of giving up and not buying at all. I'm bummed that Vegas doesn't seem to have much competition to choose from or many choices - again, a fallout of the bad economy here that's hurt the hot tub industry.

I am looking to buy a portable hot tub, 110 volt convertible to 220, don't want to pay much over $2500. Problem is, I really can't find what I'm looking for in my area. I live in Vegas, but with the bad economy, a lot of hot tub places have gone under. There's really only about 2-3 that seem to be around these days and their prices are too high for me, and their selection isn't much. I'm leaning toward buying online but am really scared of getting an inferior product. From what I understand, the online "dealers" sell no name, generic products that they manufacture themselves and I have to wonder how easy it would be to get help when something goes wrong. I've researched the whole Costco thing and am wary of buying from them because they don't sell the same dealer brand of hot tub. Their return policies are very good but I don't want to have to return something and go through the hassle. I would like a Hot Spring or Strong spa, but am I correct in my perception that there is no online direct from manufacturer way to purchase those brands? I go to their main website but always am referred to a dealer (if there is one in my area). I do know that one dealer in my locale does sell Hot Springs but I suspect they will be the high end, full price models, 4K and up, which is out of my range. I have recently seen a lot of QCA brand around online.. Earlier I was thinking about Dream Maker but decided against them, too low end and didn't like the models they offered. Are there any online places selling Hot Spring under another name with their same quality? This has been a very frustrating experience because I had assumed there'd be many dealers in my area with show rooms and a lot to look at, and it hasn't worked out that way. I would love to buy from a local dealer but with the limited things to look at, I almost feel I have no choice but to buy online and have a hot tub shipped and delivered (which is also a huge hassle and worriesome to set up and make it all happen correctly). Sorry this is long - I've been researching for several months and end up going around and around and end up right back where I started - with no decision made. I want to buy in the next month or so before summer prices go up. Would also like to enjoy the really nice weather out here April-June before it gets blistering hot. Thanks for your input, great forum with lots of good info here.